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Charles Barkley
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Charles Barkley » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:38 pm

Oh, no, haha. My bad. I've covered all the material, done the MBE simulated exam, and have completed through MBE Mixed Practice Set 4. Most of you are on MBE Practice Set 10 or higher, but I'm going to resume practicing Monday.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:43 pm

Well, I haven't done any practice MBEs in 2 days...I should probably do at least 2 sets today but the thought of doing 100 questions today makes me want to gouge my eyes out. The MBE is definitely just going to be all around more painful for me than the essays--my focus just strays way too much on the MBEs.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:46 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
kalvano wrote:Does anyone actually feel prepared for this?


Not really. Parts here and there, sure. I feel like as I grasp one subject better, I forget all about another one.


You know, just going off of this, when I took the simulated essay exam yesterday I was surprised at how things just flowed out of my brain though, even material I haven't looked at recently. I think locus had mentioned this happens? In any event, I think we all need to give ourselves more credit--the information is there and will usually be enough to at least spot an issue even if we can't recite some ridiculous rule verbatim. It is a lot of information to know and be able to analyze nonetheless.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:55 pm

Charles Barkley wrote:Oh, no, haha. My bad. I've covered all the material, done the MBE simulated exam, and have completed through MBE Mixed Practice Set 4. Most of you are on MBE Practice Set 10 or higher, but I'm going to resume practicing Monday.


I think you're alright. I took the last 2 days off from MBEs to focus on a lot of essay practice, and I'm feeling guilty about that. The thing with the MBE practice sets is to keep things fresh, and I've heard and read in a lot of places that people should do between 1200-1500 practice MBE questions before game day. Apparently that's when you really have the structure of questions down. I think it's important to at least do some practice MBEs every day or every other day so going through the motions doesn't get stale.

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JuTMSY4
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby JuTMSY4 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:57 pm

as stars burn wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:
kalvano wrote:Does anyone actually feel prepared for this?


Not really. Parts here and there, sure. I feel like as I grasp one subject better, I forget all about another one.


You know, just going off of this, when I took the simulated essay exam yesterday I was surprised at how things just flowed out of my brain though, even material I haven't looked at recently. I think locus had mentioned this happens? In any event, I think we all need to give ourselves more credit--the information is there and will usually be enough to at least spot an issue even if we can't recite some ridiculous rule verbatim. It is a lot of information to know and be able to analyze nonetheless.


I'm counting on this being true. I'm hoping to get enough partial credit on all the questions to show recognition of the issue and a good chunk of the rule to pass.

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ReelectClayDavis
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby ReelectClayDavis » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Charles Barkley wrote:I've been neglecting MBE practice and focusing exclusively on the state law portion of the test. I have to learn it sometime prior to the exam...


Depending on which state, that might be a mistake.


Ugh, I wish I were in a state where this was true. I feel alright about the MBE but I'm afraid I waited too long to really try and memorize the state material for my damn more than 50% essay state just because that was less pleasant than doing MBE questions. Really wish I knew that the NJ bar only tested MBE topics, would have taken that over my stupid sadistic testing minor state law distinctions state for sure. /rant

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:06 pm

JuTMSY4 wrote:
as stars burn wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:
kalvano wrote:Does anyone actually feel prepared for this?


Not really. Parts here and there, sure. I feel like as I grasp one subject better, I forget all about another one.


You know, just going off of this, when I took the simulated essay exam yesterday I was surprised at how things just flowed out of my brain though, even material I haven't looked at recently. I think locus had mentioned this happens? In any event, I think we all need to give ourselves more credit--the information is there and will usually be enough to at least spot an issue even if we can't recite some ridiculous rule verbatim. It is a lot of information to know and be able to analyze nonetheless.


I'm counting on this being true. I'm hoping to get enough partial credit on all the questions to show recognition of the issue and a good chunk of the rule to pass.


I did mention that happens, and it is true. For real - when you take it, you'll remember more stuff than you think you will.

It's just hard beforehand because you feel like you know nothing - but we're all in the same boat, and it always happens. :)

I honestly thought I remembered nothing before the MI bar, and I passed. So you'll all be ok.

Trying to follow my own advice here, but yeah, I feel like I can't remember anything. Not freaking out about it is definitely easier said than done. But do your best to remember that all you can do is your best. Minimum competency.

antonious13
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby antonious13 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:08 pm

releasethehounds wrote:
antonious13 wrote:Okay, I know I'm not the smartest person with MBEs... but seriously, what the fuck?


While walking down the street, an intoxicated, homeless woman addressed a jogger and said, “I know you killed your husband.” The jogger stared at the woman for a second, as did a group of onlookers, but said nothing and kept jogging. As the jogger turned a corner, she began to panic; she really had just killed her husband, but had no idea how the homeless woman could have known that. When she reached the end of the block, she turned around, jogged back, and yelled to the woman “No, I didn’t!”
Did the jogger adopt the homeless woman’s statement when she remained silent?

A. Yes, because she did not respond to the woman right away.
B. Yes, because she had just killed her husband.
C. No, because she eventually responded to the woman’s comment.
D. No, because a reasonable person would not have denied the statement.


As in why is the answer the answer or as in what the hell is this fact pattern?

Because I would imagine that it'd be D because if some drunk homeless woman started yellin' out at someone that she knew the person killed their husband, I can't imagine a reasonably person would be expected to even respond to that. Though way to make yourself look suspicious as fuck by comin' on back and yelling NUH UH, lady.



Also I spent all night just going over Civ Pro and trying to make myself feel good about it since I know it's going to be one of the MEE questions. And i was feeling real good about it and then got some obscure essay about abstention and class certification. And it made-a me sad.


It was D, and I got it right. But what the fuck question was that? Plus, I don't really remember the whole section on silence as adopting someone else's statement. A second question on that I got wrong. It just... I wonder what was going through a person's head when (s)he created it.

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Dr. Review
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Dr. Review » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:12 pm

I can't bring myself to study anymore. Every time I KNOW I need to look at more outlines, do more practices, answer more questions... I just can't. I think my brain has decided to enact a defense mechanism wherein I am mentally incapable of doing more work.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:24 pm

I burned out completely and took yesterday off. Today I got my highest grade ever on the MBE set. Really wanna use this as an excuse to take more days off.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:25 pm

Hey, anyone have the evidence and contracts handouts? I just moved everything to the new computer I am taking the exam on, and am now missing both files.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:43 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:Hey, anyone have the evidence and contracts handouts? I just moved everything to the new computer I am taking the exam on, and am now missing both files.


I made some short outlines based off the handouts and some MBE questions I kept missing:

Contracts: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6bk259qg237du ... 0MINE.docx

Evidence: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sa8m2tvu30ydw ... 0MINE.docx
Last edited by Bikeflip on Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bahamallamamama
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby bahamallamamama » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:49 pm

i asked this already, but does anyone have completed CA remedies, wills, and trusts?

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Dr. Review
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Dr. Review » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:15 pm

PA TAKERS ONLY: Here is a set of condensed outlines for non-MBE topics that you might find useful. Most are around the same length as Themis condensed for the MBE, but a couple are longer.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/64ky0ooblxj24y2/e4mGXMv6ca
not liable for inaccuracies

locusdelicti
Posts: 225
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:18 pm

Bedsole wrote:PA TAKERS ONLY: Here is a set of condensed outlines for non-MBE topics that you might find useful. Most are around the same length as Themis condensed for the MBE, but a couple are longer.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/64ky0ooblxj24y2/e4mGXMv6ca
not liable for inaccuracies


Thank you!

For PA takers, also, I have a crim law and crim pro outline for MBE with PA differences in red if anyone wants it - it's a comprehensive dealy, 13 pages in Word. Also not liable for inaccuracies. If anyone's interested, let me know and I can send it to you or I can dropbox it.

I also have MBE outlines with PA differences for Con Law, but... that's not very exciting. Still, available if anyone wants it.

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:23 pm

Is there some way to see, on the mixed MBE PQ's, your overall percent right, not just the breakdown by subject? I get the default screen that shows the total questions and the amount I got right split up by topic, but is there some way to see just the overall correct percentage for each PQ set?

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:24 pm

Hey guys, just reporting back on the MBE question sets that are for sale on the NCBE website...

The first thing I will tell you is you will recognize a lot of these questions. Granted, I've been through Themis set 12, but close to 1/3 of the questions I had seen before. (That being said, I didn't recall the correct answers to many of them!) There was a rumor going around that those questions are easier than the real exam. I did significantly better on the NCBE set than on the Themis sets, but it's hard to know if that's due to some of the same questions popping up, or that the NCBE sets are indeed easier.

All in all I would say if you haven't bought them yet, don't bother. If you're feeling like the later Themis sets are too off-the-wall, exception-focused, then maybe go back and look at some of your old sets and try to rework them again. But honestly, with the proportion of the same questions that you'll be buying, I would not recommend others buy them.

HTH

Talar
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Talar » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:26 pm

Anyone else taking MD and feel like they're absolutely fucked for the essays? :)

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:26 pm

Also, on my list of tasks today is to "review federal income tax lecture notes & handout." Was there a Tax lecture/handout? If so, I totally missed it.

JD_done
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 9:04 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby JD_done » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:32 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:Hey guys, just reporting back on the MBE question sets that are for sale on the NCBE website...

The first thing I will tell you is you will recognize a lot of these questions. Granted, I've been through Themis set 12, but close to 1/3 of the questions I had seen before. (That being said, I didn't recall the correct answers to many of them!) There was a rumor going around that those questions are easier than the real exam. I did significantly better on the NCBE set than on the Themis sets, but it's hard to know if that's due to some of the same questions popping up, or that the NCBE sets are indeed easier.

All in all I would say if you haven't bought them yet, don't bother. If you're feeling like the later Themis sets are too off-the-wall, exception-focused, then maybe go back and look at some of your old sets and try to rework them again. But honestly, with the proportion of the same questions that you'll be buying, I would not recommend others buy them.

HTH



This is very helpful. Thank you. I was a little worried that the Themis questions wouldn't be enough. I did some from the Kaplan question bank and scored about 15 percentage points lower than I am scoring on Themis. I'm really placing my faith in the fact that Themis questions will adequately prepare me to pass MBE.

locusdelicti
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:50 pm

PA TAKERS - here's my crim law & crim pro MBE outline with PA differences in red.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bs6ret6dqrgz ... 0Info.docx

Not responsible for inaccuracies; use at your own risk. But I find it helpful to have it all in one place, since PA is a little crazy.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:17 pm

Confused about the way the handout explains Rule 609. It says that with felonies, for witnesses other than the criminal defendant, the probative value must SUBSTANTIALLY outweigh the prejudical effect. But if the W is the D, then it is just outweigh, not SUBSTANTIALLY outweigh. That seems counterintuitive to me, so I've been staring at page 21 of the handout for 20 minutes now... Help!

chally012002
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby chally012002 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:21 pm

Hi everyone. I'm new to the board - call it barprephell desperation :) Somehow it helps knowing I am not suffering alone. Talar I am also taking the MD exam, and I fear I've spent far too much time on MBE. Themis actually called me a few days ago saying this was a concern for most. They said keep in mind their graders are tougher and that the MD exam graders will likely be more lenient (It didn't calm me down any though).

Talar
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Talar » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:22 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:Confused about the way the handout explains Rule 609. It says that with felonies, for witnesses other than the criminal defendant, the probative value must SUBSTANTIALLY outweigh the prejudical effect. But if the W is the D, then it is just outweigh, not SUBSTANTIALLY outweigh. That seems counterintuitive to me, so I've been staring at page 21 of the handout for 20 minutes now... Help!


I think you're misreading it? If the person being impeached with the conviction is a non-criminal defendant, the balancing test is simply 403, where the court will ALLOW impeachment with the prior conviction UNLESS the probative value is substantially outweighed by the risk of prejudice. (regular 403).

JD_done
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 9:04 am

Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby JD_done » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:32 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:Confused about the way the handout explains Rule 609. It says that with felonies, for witnesses other than the criminal defendant, the probative value must SUBSTANTIALLY outweigh the prejudical effect. But if the W is the D, then it is just outweigh, not SUBSTANTIALLY outweigh. That seems counterintuitive to me, so I've been staring at page 21 of the handout for 20 minutes now... Help!



This is how I understand it:

WITNESS: Weighs in favor of admitting: prejudice must SUBSTANTIALLY outweigh probative value=exclude

DEFENDANT: Weighs in favor of excluding: If 'mere prejudice' is > probative value = exclude (even if just a little more prejudice than probative value)




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