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releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:35 pm

The defendant's high school teacher told her that she was going to receive a failing grade in history, which would prevent her from graduating. Furious, she reported to the principal that the teacher had fondled her, and the teacher was fired. A year later, still unable to get work because of the scandal, the teacher committed suicide. The defendant, remorseful, confessed that her accusation had been false.

If the defendant is charged with manslaughter, her best defense would be that she:
A. committed no act that proximately caused the teacher's death.
B. did not intend to cause the teacher's death.
C. did not act with malice.
D. acted under extreme emotional distress.



And yet you're still an awful fucking person, defendant. The MBE questions center on such awful fucking people sometimes.


edit: took out the answer cause it wasn't really needed.

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Dr. Review
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:44 pm

Desert Fox wrote:There is some dispute on whether the NCBE ones are too easy.


This should be a good counterbalance for MBE sets 11-18

balzie94
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby balzie94 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Desert Fox wrote:There is some dispute on whether the NCBE ones are too easy.


Wut?

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:49 pm

balzie94 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:There is some dispute on whether the NCBE ones are too easy.


Wut?


Some people were saying that they were easier than real, current MBE questions. Who knows though.

TheBeard
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby TheBeard » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:56 pm

So just to be clear, when do the mixed sets start getting really hard? I'd like to know in advance so it won't be as painful.

jerwood84
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby jerwood84 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:03 pm

Ok I'm ready to just take this thing and get it over with. I wish I was taking this tomorrow so I can have my life back. At this point, pulling 10 hour days is more counterproductive than helpful. Right now it's stay loose, stay relaxed and review to keep things fresh. I'm reducing my study load to 5 hour days to stay relaxed. My worst enemy is test anxiety and the more I study the more I realize I really don't know and won't know all the rules and laws. So why not be relaxed and simply use my brain come test day instead of mechanically apply the law into a mold and process that never seems to fit just right. Need to free my mind of mechanical brainless approaches and simply let my mind go and navigate these essays with good responses.

releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:05 pm

TheBeard wrote:So just to be clear, when do the mixed sets start getting really hard? I'd like to know in advance so it won't be as painful.


Seems to depend on how well you're doing. They adjust to your strengths and weaknesses, so they start getting really difficult for different people at different times.

JAGGER
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby JAGGER » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:22 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Some people were saying that they were easier than real, current MBE questions. Who knows though.


I really think people are overthinking this.

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Reinhardt
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Reinhardt » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:27 pm

Those NCBE practice Qs are scaled to their own difficulty I would think. So your scaled score should be indicative...in theory.

On the other hand, if easy questions really throw you off compared to the average test taker, or if especially hard ones do, then I suppose it would not be very reliable. That's assuming it is easier than the actual MBE. Hard to imagine why they would do that.

Disclaimer: I haven't taken it because I'm not sure spending $50 more on the MBE would help me right now.

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:29 pm

Reinhardt wrote:Those NCBE practice Qs are scaled to their own difficulty I would think. So your scaled score should be indicative...in theory.

On the other hand, if easy questions really throw you off compared to the average test taker, or if especially hard ones do, then I suppose it would not be very reliable. That's assuming it is easier than the actual MBE. Hard to imagine why they would do that.

Disclaimer: I haven't taken it because I'm not sure spending $50 more on the MBE would help me right now.


Yea if they were scaled, I'd assume it's the same. I think I'll buy $50 dollars worth for curiosities sake if I get depressed after the mixed set 7 that everyone said sucks.

jerwood84
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby jerwood84 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:37 pm

Are my messages getting deleted?

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Bronx Bum
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bronx Bum » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:41 pm

Sherman Clark is a good dude. Every time I do something evidence related I feel like his voice takes over my head and answers it for me.

releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:51 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:Sherman Clark is a good dude. Every time I do something evidence related I feel like his voice takes over my head and answers it for me.


And he does have a nice, soothing voice. Calms you right down.


The essays are really starting to mess with my head. Sometimes it's easy to forget that the essays are "supposed" to take a certain amount of time and it's actually really hard to write them that way (meaning for the examiners to write a question that is 'supposed' to take exactly 30 minutes). I'm bouncing around from having seconds left on the clock and feeling like I haven't finished to finishing essays with 15 minutes to spare. The ones where I have 15 minutes to spare are a bit disconcerting, but I suppose in the unlikely event that I get one like that on test day I should just enjoy the break...

Vatican
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Vatican » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:08 pm

calibred wrote:Edit: Probably another way-too-nitpicky issue, so feel free to scroll past.

(Question ID#673)

City police officers shot and killed a robber as he attempted to escape arrest for an armed robbery he had committed. The robber's friend brought suit in federal district court against the city's police department and the city police officers involved, seeking only a judgment declaring unconstitutional the state statute under which the police acted. That newly enacted statute authorized police to use deadly force when necessary to apprehend a person who has committed a felony. In his suit, the friend alleged that the police would not have killed the robber if the use of deadly force had not been authorized by the statute.

The federal district court should
A. Decide the case on its merits, because it raises a substantial federal question.
B. Dismiss the action, because it involves a nonjusticiable political question.
C. Dismiss the action, because it does not present a case or controversy.
D. Dismiss the action, because the Eleventh Amendment prohibits federal courts from deciding cases of this type.

Answer choice C is correct. Whether a case may be heard by a federal court turns on the issues of standing, timing (mootness or ripeness), and other issues of justiciability. To establish standing, a plaintiff must show concrete and particularized injury-in-fact; the threat must be actual and imminent; it must be fairly traceable to the defendant’s conduct; and the relief requested must prevent or redress the injury. Here, the friend was not injured, and there are no facts to suggest he has the statutory authority to sue on behalf of his friend. Even assuming the plaintiff had standing, if a live controversy does not exist at each stage of review (not merely when the complaint is filed) the case is moot. Here again, there is no live controversy sought for review because the incident has already occurred.


This one seems wrong to me. Doesn't a person have third-party standing for a class of people that otherwise wouldn't be able to assert the defense on their own (i.e. anyone who would be affected by this statute, because they'd be dead)? Also, isn't this textbook capable of repetition, yet evading review?

I know a situation exactly like this will never come up on the bar, but questions that are so up for debate really bug me.

The dead guy not being able to sue isn't enough for 3d-P standing, you also need a "close relation" to the dead guy and an Art. III injury all your own. That's Powers v. Ohio (also Craig v. Boren, kind of).

Capable of repetition, yet evading review goes to mootness*, not standing. I.e., Roe had standing in Roe v. Wade ('cause she was preggers and wanted an abortion); but capable of rep...etc. saved the case from getting mooted when she had the kid before the decision came down.

N.B., the really nice thing about MBE ConLaw questions is that they're almost all (not very subtle) copies of actual cases. Though I guess if you're not intimately familiar with SC cases, it's a really really not so nice thing...

*which is "standing set in a time frame," so obviously a completely different animal... :roll:

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kalvano
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:17 pm

So I sat down to do the sample graded MPT and I was 2,200 words in and 20 minutes left and Chrome just crashed and wouldn't recover anything. Fuck it. I submitted something that explained what happened simply for the completion point, but goddammit. I am not going back and redoing it all. I wonder if they will take back my percentage point for "completing" that assignment.

09042014
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:29 pm

kalvano wrote:So I sat down to do the sample graded MPT and I was 2,200 words in and 20 minutes left and Chrome just crashed and wouldn't recover anything. Fuck it. I submitted something that explained what happened simply for the completion point, but goddammit. I am not going back and redoing it all. I wonder if they will take back my percentage point for "completing" that assignment.


I had my second part of my Simulated MBE crap out on me after I hit complete. I had to go back and try to remember what I put for each one.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:47 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Agoraphobia wrote:
Bedsole wrote:
Agoraphobia wrote:Please tell me that these Mixed MBEs are getting harder, and I'm not getting stupider....

Catleesi wrote:Enrolled Student Manual: "The MBE Test Bank is designed to work with your strengths and weaknesses within each MBE subject. Your first session will be a random selection of questions. In future sessions, you will see more questions in the areas in which you need more review. "

Bustang wrote:Just to add what's already been established - the director of Themis for Texas has told me on two separate occasions that the portal will a) adjust questions according to your strengths/weaknesses and b) ask more difficult questions on the following quiz after scoring "highly."

Themis just taught me who was boss.


Thanks. I'm starting to think (and I think someone else may have said this, too) that the Mixed MBEs are starting to be counterproductive for me in that they're testing picky little exceptions and causing me to question myself on the knowledge that I actually do have about the basic BLL that I'm hoping will comprise the majority of the MBE. I did buy those 3 practice sets from NCBE and maybe I will try one of those tomorrow, instead, to hopefully get a better idea of what we're really going to be facing. Those I'm assuming will be fairly typical since they're right from the source...


There is some dispute on whether the NCBE ones are too easy.


Yeah, I've heard the same. I don't think it's really worth it to buy those things on top of what we've already paid for a bar review course. I'm getting enough practice.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:56 pm

Man, I need to slow the fuck down on these essays. I ended up missing about 5 questions on each part of the simulated MBE because I was so pressed for time (I think this is mainly due to my wandering mind because I get so damn bored), but I just finished the MEE simulated essays (6 essays) with over 30 minutes left to spare, and I was totally diddly-daddling a bit, too. I was freaking flying through it! I honestly didn't think it was that bad! I went WAY over the character count on Secured Trans and had to go back to figure out what to cut, but I wrote about 3,000 average for the rest. Maybe I'm not writing enough? Missing small issues? Either that or my journalism-write-a-breaking-news-story-in-20-minutes mentality came in and totally just took over.

Regardless, I think condensing these outlines is helping me immensely with compartmentalizing and focusing on the big picture only. I haven't graded my responses against the model answers yet, but I didn't feel like complete shit afterward, so it was rather refreshing.

releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:16 pm

as stars burn wrote:Man, I need to slow the fuck down on these essays. I ended up missing about 5 questions on each part of the simulated MBE because I was so pressed for time (I think this is mainly due to my wandering mind because I get so damn bored), but I just finished the MEE simulated essays (6 essays) with over 30 minutes left to spare, and I was totally diddly-daddling a bit, too. I was freaking flying through it! I honestly didn't think it was that bad! I went WAY over the character count on Secured Trans and had to go back to figure out what to cut, but I wrote about 3,000 average for the rest. Maybe I'm not writing enough? Missing small issues? Either that or my journalism-write-a-breaking-news-story-in-20-minutes mentality came in and totally just took over.

Regardless, I think condensing these outlines is helping me immensely with compartmentalizing and focusing on the big picture only. I haven't graded my responses against the model answers yet, but I didn't feel like complete shit afterward, so it was rather refreshing.


Personally I think it's a mistake to get hung up on how much you're writing. If you're able to concisely get the point and any tests across, that should be good enough. You're going to look at the model answers and notice you missed small issues because it's the model answer written by someone with all the information in front of them at the time of writing--but it's probably not a timing thing. I doubt (m)any of us are going to get perfect scores on any essay. If you're feeling good about what you write and it "doesn't seem long enough," it probably is long enough. Having edited boatloads over the last ten years (as I'm sure many if not most of you all have done as well), nothing detracts away from grading a question more than just mountains of BS lumped in with right answers. Considering it's all subjective grading, probably better to just stop when you're comfortable you've answered the question.

THAT SAID...my essays are the opposite: A mountain of BS lumped in with a couple of legit sentences describing a real issue :mrgreen:

Keep in mind, too, that it's really hard to write an essay prompt that's ALWAYS going to take the EXACT amount of time given. Some essay prompts may just lend themselves to less time, particularly if you happen to know the issue really well or you don't take time out to outline.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:20 pm

Going to sound dumb, but when we take the MEE and IEE, do we do one essay at a time for 30 minutes apiece, or do we get a block of time to do all of them, and can allocate the time as we want to?

balzie94
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby balzie94 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:34 pm

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Last edited by balzie94 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

wh3931110
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby wh3931110 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:35 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:Going to sound dumb, but when we take the MEE and IEE, do we do one essay at a time for 30 minutes apiece, or do we get a block of time to do all of them, and can allocate the time as we want to?


Based on the practice sessions I think it is a block of time for all the sessions. Also, there are only two downloads in our exam software... AM/PM... so all the questions appear to be given to us when we hit start to begin each session or whatever. I do not officially know but that is my assumption -

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:44 pm

wh3931110 wrote:
Agoraphobia wrote:Going to sound dumb, but when we take the MEE and IEE, do we do one essay at a time for 30 minutes apiece, or do we get a block of time to do all of them, and can allocate the time as we want to?


Based on the practice sessions I think it is a block of time for all the sessions. Also, there are only two downloads in our exam software... AM/PM... so all the questions appear to be given to us when we hit start to begin each session or whatever. I do not officially know but that is my assumption -


Correct. According to Themis' "Breakdown of the Illinois Bar Exam:"

"AM Session: IEE consists of 3 essay questions in 90 minutes (30 min. per essay), followed by 1 performance test (MPT) in 90 minutes
PM Session: MEE consists of 6 questions in 3 hours (30 minutes per essay)"

So yes, we are given a block of time and can allocate where needed. Although, I believe there is a brief break between the IEEs and the MPT. I'm totally thankful for this because some essays I was able to complete in 20 minutes or less, while others I went over the "30 minute suggested allocation." The 30 minutes is just that, a suggested allocation, but it is something to adhere to if you generally cannot finish each essay in 30 minutes or less. It helps to prevent people from spending too much time on a question.
Last edited by as stars burn on Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:47 pm

releasethehounds wrote:Personally I think it's a mistake to get hung up on how much you're writing. If you're able to concisely get the point and any tests across, that should be good enough. You're going to look at the model answers and notice you missed small issues because it's the model answer written by someone with all the information in front of them at the time of writing--but it's probably not a timing thing. I doubt (m)any of us are going to get perfect scores on any essay. If you're feeling good about what you write and it "doesn't seem long enough," it probably is long enough. Having edited boatloads over the last ten years (as I'm sure many if not most of you all have done as well), nothing detracts away from grading a question more than just mountains of BS lumped in with right answers. Considering it's all subjective grading, probably better to just stop when you're comfortable you've answered the question.

THAT SAID...my essays are the opposite: A mountain of BS lumped in with a couple of legit sentences describing a real issue :mrgreen:

Keep in mind, too, that it's really hard to write an essay prompt that's ALWAYS going to take the EXACT amount of time given. Some essay prompts may just lend themselves to less time, particularly if you happen to know the issue really well or you don't take time out to outline.


This made me feel better. I completely agree that some essays lend themselves to less time. Obviously, a long drawn out prompt is going to require more time versus a short prompt. I'll just stick to feeling good about this simulate essay exam since I felt like shit after the MBE :mrgreen:

balzie94
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby balzie94 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:01 pm

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Last edited by balzie94 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.




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