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releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:30 am

Reinhardt wrote:FOB (location) contracts tell you where the risk of loss shifts. If it's FOB [seller's workshop] then risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are shipped.


*And notice is sent to the buyer of the shipment. Somehow I feel in my bones that one day I will see a question in which the buyer isn't notified.

Kretzy
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Kretzy » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:02 am

Finally hit a 65 on one of the essays. Really needed that. About to take this MBE milestone from god knows how long ago during a transatlantic flight, so hopefully it'll be free of screaming children.

yeff
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby yeff » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:55 am


releasethehounds
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby releasethehounds » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:04 am



Sounds like something my first year roommate would do. I feel like it'd be wasting money--I'd rather go when I actually have time to look around and do things. I'd be people-watching instead of studying because I have the attention span of a goldfish.

JD_done
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby JD_done » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:02 am

as stars burn wrote:Holy shit. I just completed MBE Set 6 with 20 minutes left to spare!? I usually always need every second, but I was obviously racing through that set and landed a 62% (LOL at 33% Property and 40% Crim Law though...I fucking give up on Property).



Am I completely dense or just don't see the total score on the mixed MBE's? I see the goal Themis gives you for each set but I only see my results by topic. How do you know your total percentage for the mixed session?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:11 am

I always just add up the # right and do the math. I dont see the score on the mixed either, just on the topic ones.

yeff
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby yeff » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:13 am

Just getting to my first MPT. :| Thanks, Pavel Wonsowicz, I'll be sure to practice an MPT on each of the next six Sundays. :shock:

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:26 am

releasethehounds wrote:


Sounds like something my first year roommate would do. I feel like it'd be wasting money--I'd rather go when I actually have time to look around and do things. I'd be people-watching instead of studying because I have the attention span of a goldfish.


That's what I was thinking! I think it'd be a complete waste of money to go to some crazy place like that only to study for 10 hours a day. I LOLed at the person studying for the exam during the World Series Poker tournament. How the hell did that person retain anything?

Random question for all of you: how much time do you spend outlining essay exam answers? Or do you not outline? All through law school I never, ever outlined an answer. I will never forget trying to outline my very first exam answer during my criminal law exam, and saying, "fuck this" in the first 1 or 2 minutes of trying. The most efficient thing for me to do is jot down important parties/facts/dates/diagrams, underline other important information and jot down the issues that jump out at me in the margins. I then just start typing immediately while organizing the issues as I see fit while I write. The same pretty much goes for the MPT. I've tried outlining, but it just doesn't work for me at all. Am I the only one??

Edit: I really can't spell anymore....
Last edited by as stars burn on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:28 am

BarbellDreams wrote:I always just add up the # right and do the math. I dont see the score on the mixed either, just on the topic ones.


Yep. That's exactly what I do. Add up all correct answers by each topic and then divide by the total number of questions in the set.

JD_done
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby JD_done » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:31 am

as stars burn wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I always just add up the # right and do the math. I dont see the score on the mixed either, just on the topic ones.


Yep. That's exactly what I do. Add up all correct answers by each topic and then divide by the total number of questions in the set.



That's some highbrow mathematics for this very tired brain but I will give it a shot.

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Dr. Review
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Dr. Review » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:39 am

I condensed the full Themis PA Corporations outline into a 13 page version if anyone is interested in using it (especially if you want to trade your condensed version of another topic).

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:47 am

as stars burn wrote:
releasethehounds wrote:


Sounds like something my first year roommate would do. I feel like it'd be wasting money--I'd rather go when I actually have time to look around and do things. I'd be people-watching instead of studying because I have the attention span of a goldfish.


That's what I was thinking! I think it'd be a complete waste of money to go to some crazy place like that only to study for 10 hours a day. I LOLed at the person studying for the exam during the World Series Poker tournament. How the hell did that person retain anything?

Random question for all of you: how much time do you spend outlining essay exam answers? Or do you not outline? All through law school I never, ever outlined an answer. I will never forget trying to outline my very first exam answer during my criminal law exam, and saying, "fuck this" in the first 1 or 2 minutes of trying. The most efficient thing for me to do is jot down important parties/facts/dates/diagrams, underline other important information and jot down the issues that jump out at me in the margins. I then just start typing immediately while organizing the issues as I see fit while I write. The same pretty much goes for the MPT. I've tried outlining, but it just doesn't work for me at all. Am I the only one??

Edit: I really can't spell anymore....


I don't outline my answers. I've never outlined anything - essays in undergrad, law school essays, nothing. When I took the MI bar, I handwrote my essays but didn't outline them first - I just scribbled around a bit and then wrote them out. It's always worked for me because it's the only way I know how to work. I'm sure it's not the easiest way, but I never learned how to study properly.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:12 pm

The NJ essays today are like 10 times harder than the PA essays yesterday. All the confidence from yesterday's exam is sinking out of me.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:20 pm

locusdelicti wrote:
as stars burn wrote:
releasethehounds wrote:


Sounds like something my first year roommate would do. I feel like it'd be wasting money--I'd rather go when I actually have time to look around and do things. I'd be people-watching instead of studying because I have the attention span of a goldfish.


That's what I was thinking! I think it'd be a complete waste of money to go to some crazy place like that only to study for 10 hours a day. I LOLed at the person studying for the exam during the World Series Poker tournament. How the hell did that person retain anything?

Random question for all of you: how much time do you spend outlining essay exam answers? Or do you not outline? All through law school I never, ever outlined an answer. I will never forget trying to outline my very first exam answer during my criminal law exam, and saying, "fuck this" in the first 1 or 2 minutes of trying. The most efficient thing for me to do is jot down important parties/facts/dates/diagrams, underline other important information and jot down the issues that jump out at me in the margins. I then just start typing immediately while organizing the issues as I see fit while I write. The same pretty much goes for the MPT. I've tried outlining, but it just doesn't work for me at all. Am I the only one??

Edit: I really can't spell anymore....


I don't outline my answers. I've never outlined anything - essays in undergrad, law school essays, nothing. When I took the MI bar, I handwrote my essays but didn't outline them first - I just scribbled around a bit and then wrote them out. It's always worked for me because it's the only way I know how to work. I'm sure it's not the easiest way, but I never learned how to study properly.


I seriously am happy to hear I'm not the only one. My undergrad was journalism, and I was freelancing for a few years before law school so I have always been used to that incredible pressure of deadlines (especially with breaking news stories) and never really had time to "outline" much of anything. I honestly don't think outlining is for everyone....we all learn and do things differently. I just feel so guilty for not following Themis's suggestion, but I just can't physically do it. I end up going way over the time limit if I do. I think it's because I make my outlines too detailed or something. Who the hell knows, but I know for sure I'm not outlining on game day.

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:30 pm

Does anybody have any tips for distilling civ pro?

WWAD
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby WWAD » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:36 pm

My plan for CivPro involves crying and throwing stuff if we get an essay.

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Reinhardt
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Reinhardt » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:38 pm

as stars burn wrote:Random question for all of you: how much time do you spend outlining essay exam answers? Or do you not outline? All through law school I never, ever outlined an answer. I will never forget trying to outline my very first exam answer during my criminal law exam, and saying, "fuck this" in the first 1 or 2 minutes of trying. The most efficient thing for me to do is jot down important parties/facts/dates/diagrams, underline other important information and jot down the issues that jump out at me in the margins. I then just start typing immediately while organizing the issues as I see fit while I write. The same pretty much goes for the MPT. I've tried outlining, but it just doesn't work for me at all. Am I the only one??


CA gives an hour per essay, so I've found it good to spend the first 15 minutes reading and planning the answer. I might not call it outlining per se, but I write down the major issues as a heading, and then plan to spend at least a paragraph talking about each one.

Ends up looking like this:

Formation
Offer
Acceptance
Consideration
Statute of Frauds
Modification
etc

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:38 pm

Bedsole wrote:I condensed the full Themis PA Corporations outline into a 13 page version if anyone is interested in using it (especially if you want to trade your condensed version of another topic).


I have pretty much everything condensed except for about 6 subjects (MBE subjects mainly). I'm trying to get everything down to about 5-10 pages a piece. I'd be happy to share them with anyone (as long as you don't laugh at some of my ridiculous mnemonics)! I'm almost done with Evidence and will be switching to condense Property down from the 30 pages I have now after that. Right now Family Law, Secured Trans, Equity, Personal Prop, Suretyship, Admin Law, Conflict of Laws, Fed Civ Pro and Agency are done. By the end of today I should have Evidence, Trusts, Property, Commercial Paper and IL Civ Pro done. Just FYI, I'm sitting for Illinois so there is Illinois law interwoven in everything pointing out distinctions.

EDIT: if anyone wants to check out my condensed outlines you can email me at the email I made special for this forum: asstarsburn@gmail.com. I'm happy to help my fellow TLSers :D. I promise to check that inbox a couple times during the day
Last edited by as stars burn on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:42 pm

Catleesi wrote:Does anybody have any tips for distilling civ pro?


Check out this attack outline: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/141751918/F ... Pro-MO-BAR
I just beefed up this outline a tad bit to make it my own--it's a good one! I anticipate if we get a Civ Pro question its most likely going to deal with jurisdictional issues (PJ or SMJ) with joinder of parties/claims and possibly some conflict of law shit thrown in. It's such a rule heavy area but if you get get it down to the basics you should be alright. Don't get bogged down in too much minutia. I'm a tad worried about IL Civ Pro because a) I know it's going to show up, and b) there are a lot of dates/time limits to remember.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:48 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
as stars burn wrote:Random question for all of you: how much time do you spend outlining essay exam answers? Or do you not outline? All through law school I never, ever outlined an answer. I will never forget trying to outline my very first exam answer during my criminal law exam, and saying, "fuck this" in the first 1 or 2 minutes of trying. The most efficient thing for me to do is jot down important parties/facts/dates/diagrams, underline other important information and jot down the issues that jump out at me in the margins. I then just start typing immediately while organizing the issues as I see fit while I write. The same pretty much goes for the MPT. I've tried outlining, but it just doesn't work for me at all. Am I the only one??


CA gives an hour per essay, so I've found it good to spend the first 15 minutes reading and planning the answer. I might not call it outlining per se, but I write down the major issues as a heading, and then plan to spend at least a paragraph talking about each one.

Ends up looking like this:

Formation
Offer
Acceptance
Consideration
Statute of Frauds
Modification
etc


That's about what I do. It's just so much easier and less stressful for me to just type it all out and move stuff around a bit later if I have time. I tend to freak out a little bit when I don't start writing pretty quickly after reading the fact pattern, and I really don't know why, but I've definitely conditioned myself to do that so better not change it now.

GertrudePerkins
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby GertrudePerkins » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:49 pm

I'm also sending this question/issue to Themis, but I think they're pretty backlogged with questions from people, and maybe one of you can spot something I've missed, or confirm my take, right away. This is from a practice Evidence essay. (It's set in MA, which tracks the FRE pretty closely in the hearsay context.)
Essay Question wrote:Plaintiff was in an automobile accident with Defendant in which Plaintiff claimed Defendant failed to stop at a red light and hit her car.  Defendant denied that he failed to stop at the red light.  Plaintiff brought a civil action against the Defendant in Superior Court.  The following occurred at trial:
***
F. Sue sought to have admitted into evidence Officer Jones’ police report which contained a statement by Witness that Defendant was “speeding and not paying attention”.  Sue has been unable to locate Witness.  Jack objected to the admission of the police report.
Here's the relevant portion of the Model Answer that bewilders me:
Themis Model Answer wrote:Witness’ statement that Defendant was speeding and not paying attention is relevant to Defendant’s liability with respect to the accident.  While the police report may be admissible as a business or public record, the statement contained within the police report is hearsay because it is an out-of-court statement offered to show that Defendant was speeding.  However, this statement falls under the unavailable declarant hearsay exception because Witness is not able to be located.  Therefore, Defendant’s objection will be overruled and the police report will be admitted.
I don't understand what exception the bolded phrase refers to. There is no blanket "unavailable declarant" exception. Such a blanket exception would defeat the purpose of the hearsay rule. FRE 804 lists a number of exceptions that are applicable only when a declarant is unavailable, but they require other specific criteria in addition to declarant-unavailability: former testimony, statement against interest, statement of personal/family history, statement against party who wrongfully caused the unavailability. None of those apply to this scenario. If this hearsay statement fell into any of the 803 exceptions it would also be okay, because those apply to both available and unavailable declarants -- but again, none of them appear to apply to this scenario.

Does anyone think Witness's statement plausibly fits within any of the 803 or 804 exceptions? (I definitely don't think it's within any of the 801 exemptions.) This just strikes me as the quintessence of what the hearsay rule is designed to exclude.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:04 pm

Catleesi wrote:Does anybody have any tips for distilling civ pro?


I'm approaching civ pro as from the various stages of a case: Injury, filing a claim, moving the claim, filing dismissals, how to win at trial, post-trial

Injury:
What happened?
Where did it happen? (Preps you for diversity & personal juris)

Making and Filing a claim:
A federal law violation or a state law action? (federal question v diversity)
If federal law, look at federal question.
If state law, start looking at diversity and personal jurisdiction:
Are the parties diverse? If there's a corporate plaintiff, where is that corp plaintiff located?
How much is in controversy? How does the money add up to $75,000?
Have both the plaintiff and the defendant purposely availed themselves to the forum state?
Have the claims been properly joined (permissive v compulsory)? If they have not, how does this affect post-trial stuff?

Moving the claim (Removal and transfer)
If the claim started out in state court, can the claim go federal?
If the claim started out in federal court, will it still move?

Dismissing the claim
Anything under Rule 12?
When can you dismiss for things like lack of personal jurisdiction?
For subject matter jurisdiction?
For improper venue?
Who can dismiss as a matter of right?
What happens to supplemental jurisdiction if the federal claims are dismissed?
How does a dismissal affect post-trial things like preclusion?

Winning at trial
Who can get summary judgment?
Who can get judgment as a matter of law?

Post trial
How do you get claim and issue preclusion?
How do you get preclusion from a Rule 12 or similar dismissal?
How do you get preclusion from improperly joined claim?
How do you file an appeal?

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:10 pm

as stars burn wrote:
locusdelicti wrote:
as stars burn wrote:
Random question for all of you: how much time do you spend outlining essay exam answers? Or do you not outline? All through law school I never, ever outlined an answer. I will never forget trying to outline my very first exam answer during my criminal law exam, and saying, "fuck this" in the first 1 or 2 minutes of trying. The most efficient thing for me to do is jot down important parties/facts/dates/diagrams, underline other important information and jot down the issues that jump out at me in the margins. I then just start typing immediately while organizing the issues as I see fit while I write. The same pretty much goes for the MPT. I've tried outlining, but it just doesn't work for me at all. Am I the only one??

Edit: I really can't spell anymore....


I don't outline my answers. I've never outlined anything - essays in undergrad, law school essays, nothing. When I took the MI bar, I handwrote my essays but didn't outline them first - I just scribbled around a bit and then wrote them out. It's always worked for me because it's the only way I know how to work. I'm sure it's not the easiest way, but I never learned how to study properly.


I seriously am happy to hear I'm not the only one. My undergrad was journalism, and I was freelancing for a few years before law school so I have always been used to that incredible pressure of deadlines (especially with breaking news stories) and never really had time to "outline" much of anything. I honestly don't think outlining is for everyone....we all learn and do things differently. I just feel so guilty for not following Themis's suggestion, but I just can't physically do it. I end up going way over the time limit if I do. I think it's because I make my outlines too detailed or something. Who the hell knows, but I know for sure I'm not outlining on game day.


I am the same. I was an editor for 4 years before I went to law school. I have an English degree. Then law school came, and I was like "what" and I had a hard time as a 1L. Then I sort of got the hang of it, but now I've been out of law school for 7 years, and I'm back to being like "what" and I feel a little overwhelmed right now.

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:14 pm

Stars, Bike, would it be awkward if I said I love you? If so we can pretend I didn't and just be friends.

Seriously though, thanks. I'm struggling with civ pro and it WILL be on the test.

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:22 pm

Catleesi wrote:Stars, Bike, would it be awkward if I said I love you? If so we can pretend I didn't and just be friends.

Seriously though, thanks. I'm struggling with civ pro and it WILL be on the test.



Look back at old exams (LinkRemoved). Some of them Themis had on their page. It'll give you an idea of what is tested and what is not. JMOL is tested a lot. Discovery, not so much.

Granted, these exams stopped in 2008, but it should still be helpful.




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