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locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:05 am

Con law essay questions make me want to die.

lionelhutz123
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby lionelhutz123 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:12 am

Hello fellow Themis Bros,

I'm sitting at 66% and feeling ok. Consistently getting about 75-80% of MBE questions in more or less all subjects (bit lower on property/contracts, bit higher on con/evidence). The essays are still stressing me. I always get 55 on the essays even though my answers are correct, generally point to the relevant issue, and state some rule of law. All my feedback is STATE MORE LAW. Then I read the models, which often look very similar to mine and often don't contain a lot of possible issues.

This is pretty much the only thing freaking me out at this point. Are they intentionally grading us low? Is my personal grader a moron? If I were confident my essays were actually getting 70/100, I'd be able to sleep easy.

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Eruannon
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Eruannon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:24 am

Are you guys making flash cards using the Themis handouts or the outlines? I feel like trying the memorize the entire outline is pretty unrealistic...

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:27 am

Eruannon wrote:Are you guys making flash cards using the Themis handouts or the outlines? I feel like trying the memorize the entire outline is pretty unrealistic...


I've been using the handouts.

The problem is that you get pretty good with the basics and the common issues, and then you get a fucking essay that's about some obscure piece of shit law that the lecturer didn't cover.

You can't memorize everything. It just sucks when it feels like you should have.

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Eruannon
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Eruannon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:27 am

BarbellDreams wrote:Can someone give me a scenario where we would actually need to use the Priveleges and Immunities clause because Equal protection and Due Process wouldn't be enough? Even the Themis example of charging extra for a commercial fishing license seems a bit off to me. Is it basically activity that discriminates against out of staters, but will likely pass a rational basis test (charging more for foreign fisherman) and is not a fundamental right touching due process? And why does Themis say that recreational activity discrimination is fine but commercial activity is not?

My professor from ConLaw in LS said P & I clause is basically non-existent now adays before everything is covered by Due Process or Equal protection, and Jeffries in his lecture said to NEVER pick P & I as the answer, but I actually just came across a Con Law MBE where P & I was the answer.


I think Jeffries is spot on with this one. Why pick the answer that is almost never correct? I feel like trying to figure out the minutiae that might make P & I the correct answer will end up causing us to pick it in the wrong scenario. If the P & I answer is only right on one con law question every few years than it probably isn't worth the risk. But fuck, what do I know, I haven't taken this stupid ass test yet.

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Charles Barkley
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Charles Barkley » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:37 am

I could be way off base here...

But isn't it the case that the privileges or immunities clause of the 14th Amendment is almost NEVER the correct answer. However, the privileges & immunities clause of Article IV is much more likely to be the correct answer. The two clauses, while similarly named, test different things.

locusdelicti
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby locusdelicti » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:40 am

Charles Barkley wrote:I could be way off base here...

But isn't it the case that the privileges or immunities clause of the 14th Amendment is almost NEVER the correct answer. However, the privileges & immunities clause of Article IV is much more likely to be the correct answer. The two clauses, while similarly named, test different things.


Yes. Jeffries said the P & I clause of the 14th Amendment is never the answer. He didn't say that about the P & I clause of Art. IV.

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Eruannon
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Eruannon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:48 am

Con Law is my worst subject. This is probably one of the reasons.

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elysiansmiles
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby elysiansmiles » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:58 am

Eruannon wrote:Con Law is my worst subject. This is probably one of the reasons.


I'm not bad at Con Law, but my law school made us take 6 credits of it. I think the trick is to read as many cases as possible, because most of the multiple choice hypos seem to be very closely based on actual fact patterns. I think Con Law is tough to test multiple choice, so they stick to things that are well-settled (aka have already been decided). If you haven't read the cases, you're probably out of luck and left guessing at what the Court actually decided, which as well all know sometimes doesn't follow doctrine.

I don't know if that helps with studying, but I think thats one of the reasons it can be a really hard subject.

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:39 pm

Attention Illinois peeps: today notices of eligibility to sit for the Illinois Bar exam with your seat numbers are being posted. They can be found under your Admissions documents on the Illinois Bar website (you should also get an email once it posts). NOTE: The notices will be posting throughout the day so DO NOT freak out if you don't see it right away....

...like I did about 5 minutes ago. I almost went into cardiac arrest when my friends starting texting me asking me where I taking the bar. I presume the majority of us will be at UIC Forum.

Just a heads up to look out for that. If for some reason you don't receive one by the end of today I HIGHLY recommend contacting your process person either by phone or email so you can figure out what the hell you didn't do.

antonious13
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby antonious13 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:01 pm

I think I may be boned. Looked at a Torts essay, asked about defamation, and I didn't have a fuckin' clue where to start. 72% done with Themis, and I still don't know shit. This is bad.

GertrudePerkins
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby GertrudePerkins » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:16 pm

Charles Barkley wrote:I could be way off base here...

But isn't it the case that the privileges or immunities clause of the 14th Amendment is almost NEVER the correct answer. However, the privileges & immunities clause of Article IV is much more likely to be the correct answer. The two clauses, while similarly named, test different things.
I think you're completely right. And bonus points for being precise about the "and" vs. "or" distinction. Seems like there'd be less confusion if people were consistently precise about that.

GertrudePerkins
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby GertrudePerkins » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:21 pm

antonious13 wrote:I think I may be boned. Looked at a Torts essay, asked about defamation, and I didn't have a fuckin' clue where to start. 72% done with Themis, and I still don't know shit. This is bad.
But did you at least recognize that it was about defamation? I know that this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I think bullshitting can get you pretty far once you recognize the issue. What intuitively seem like some likely elements of defamation? Statement that hurts someone's reputation, has to not be true, someone else has to hear/read the statement, something about whether the person is a public figure or not. Those aren't precisely the elements, and I'm not using the blackletter law terms/phrases, but I think if you at least get out those ideas in some form, that takes you a good way.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:28 pm

ILLINOIS - Wills & Intestate succession... Do you think it is OK if we just understand our state's way of distributing? Are the Wills questions going to be on the MEE or the Illinois Essays? I'm spending a lot of struggling with the per capita means of distribution & if I'm wasting my time, I'm gonna move on. (IL is per stirpes) THX

lionelhutz123
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby lionelhutz123 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:38 pm

GertrudePerkins wrote:
antonious13 wrote:I think I may be boned. Looked at a Torts essay, asked about defamation, and I didn't have a fuckin' clue where to start. 72% done with Themis, and I still don't know shit. This is bad.
But did you at least recognize that it was about defamation? I know that this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I think bullshitting can get you pretty far once you recognize the issue. What intuitively seem like some likely elements of defamation? Statement that hurts someone's reputation, has to not be true, someone else has to hear/read the statement, something about whether the person is a public figure or not. Those aren't precisely the elements, and I'm not using the blackletter law terms/phrases, but I think if you at least get out those ideas in some form, that takes you a good way.


I asked further up on 73 about something similar to this - how are we to truly gauge ourselves on the essays at this point? It seems to me like Themis HAS to be under-grading us a bit. The things the examiners must be looking for are spotting the issue, having decent knowledge of the relevant rule of law, and then being able to apply the rule competently to the facts. Anything more is gravy, but that at least should be passing, no? I'm really perplexed that I never get more than 55 on these essays...thoughts?

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as stars burn
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby as stars burn » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:41 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:ILLINOIS - Wills & Intestate succession... Do you think it is OK if we just understand our state's way of distributing? Are the Wills questions going to be on the MEE or the Illinois Essays? I'm spending a lot of struggling with the per capita means of distribution & if I'm wasting my time, I'm gonna move on. (IL is per stirpes) THX


According to the Themis distributions of subjects tested, it looks like on the MEE Wills is tested around 75% of the time, and on the IEE it is tested about 15% of the time. Thus, I think it is way more likely to show up on the MEE. BUT! I feel like if you can at least name the other distributions and then just go into per stirpes you'll be fine. Fuck, I really need to look at Wills and Trusts again...I can't even remember what per stirpes is!

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Bikeflip
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:49 pm

Wow. 0 for 8 on Crim Law in the morning....WTF?

Bad news was I didn't get a score I wanted. Good news was it would be a passing score, and my mistakes were centered around 5 subtopics.

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Dr. Review
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Dr. Review » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:57 pm

Finally hit 75%. I've done 5 sets of MBE practices in the last two days, and my score has gone down each time. I think I need a break.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:05 pm

I've been doing MBEs every morning now too. Woke up faced with 100 though, and lots of other stuff to do - I'm saving it for tomorrow since I can't take the essays until Thursday.

rsg87
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby rsg87 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:16 pm

Do you think the Mixed MBE questions are getting harder, or am I just getting more burnt out? This exam is worse than both the LSAT and studying for law school exams for me.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Agoraphobia » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:30 pm

I think the consensus is that they are getting harder.

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Catleesi
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Catleesi » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:33 pm

Just finished task seven for the day.

Just got my first percentage point for the day.

*throws chair.*

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Charles Barkley
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby Charles Barkley » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:47 pm

Time to begin learning state law doctrine for the state law portion of the test.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:08 pm

Is it basically irrelevant that a contract has a clause that says this contract cannot be assigned. Can you basically assign a contract whether the clause is in or not so long as there is no particular purpose the other party had for wanting YOU specifically to do it (best baker in town, famous person doing soemthing to promote busines, etc.). I guess I am thinking of it in a way that sayd even if its a breach what are you damages assuming everything was done properly?

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forza
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Re: THEMIS BAR REVIEW Hangout.

Postby forza » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:28 pm

What up, Javits Center Convention Hall 1-B?




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