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Dr. Review · Post by **Dr. Review** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

forza wrote:You know what? The essays are actually really chill compared the MBE. The MBE is a heart-pounding time-crunch mindfuck. The essays you can sorta just chill and massage the fuck out of for 45 minutes per. I am finding that 45 minutes is plenty of time, although the secured transactions bit in the New York essays had me lol'ing at how little I know (or care to know) about that subject.

Yeah, I don't hate it. The PTs are annoying though, because I feel like I am practicing skills that I have been practicing for the last 3 years.

releasethehounds · Post by **releasethehounds** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:47 pm

as stars burn wrote:Yeah, I'm definitely not taking the essays exam today. I actually completely forgot about them, so I'll just do it tomorrow. Something tells me I need to take the Monday before the exam off completely or I'm going to be so burnt out. The sheer thought of having to do 9 essays and an MPT makes me want to cry.

Aside from that, did all the Illinois peeps see that we need to bring 2 passport photos with us to the testing center so they can give us a badge with our picture in it? (info here if you missed it: https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/news.action?id=1060) I mean...WTF? I get that it is extra security for people who are trying to cheat, but geezus, I hate all this stupid shit they make us do. It also means I have to leave the house to go to Walgreens and get more passport photos. Such a pain in the ass when all I want to do is curl up and die.

If it makes you feel any better Arizona makes you go actually get fingerprinted--though at least it was the cheaper old-school ink-fingerprint kind and not TrueScan. All my Illinois buddies were staring at me like I was a moron when I mentioned I had to go get fingerprinted before I could register to take the exam. Have to agree though. The security is ridiculous.

HAHAHAHA no. No essay exam today. Thank you Themis, but no. Though I say that and I almost guarantee come 9pm I'll just be like 'eh, screw it, let's do that essay thing til 4am.'

releasethehounds · Post by **releasethehounds** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:00 pm

Also, do time limits/character limits for essays change per jurisdiction? AZ gives 30 minutes and 5000 characters per essay. I wasn't sure if that was short or long or average. Or does it change depending on if it's an MEE question or a state-specific question? AZ doesn't do state-specific essays, just six MEE essays and 2 MPTs.

lionelhutz123 · Post by **lionelhutz123** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:06 pm

Just did NY MCs for the first time - are you f***ing kidding me?!

Dr. Review · Post by **Dr. Review** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:12 pm

releasethehounds wrote:Also, do time limits/character limits for essays change per jurisdiction? AZ gives 30 minutes and 5000 characters per essay. I wasn't sure if that was short or long or average. Or does it change depending on if it's an MEE question or a state-specific question? AZ doesn't do state-specific essays, just six MEE essays and 2 MPTs.

Yes, in PA we get 45 minutes and (I think) unlimited characters. We have 5 essays (usually 4 interrogatories per question) and 1 performance test of 90 minutes. They are state specific essays.

lionelhutz123 · Post by **lionelhutz123** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:22 pm

Question - are the completed handouts available anywhere? I need to start reviewing some subjects, but the full outlines are simply not practical at this point.

JuTMSY4 · Post by **JuTMSY4** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:43 pm

lionelhutz123 wrote:Question - are the completed handouts available anywhere? I need to start reviewing some subjects, but the full outlines are simply not practical at this point.

Not that I know of - although you could ask your director.

Alternatively, here's some helpful short outlines I've used to build my own. Keep in mind it's a little old

--LinkRemoved--

TheBeard · Post by **TheBeard** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:36 pm

Bedsole wrote:
releasethehounds wrote:Also, do time limits/character limits for essays change per jurisdiction? AZ gives 30 minutes and 5000 characters per essay. I wasn't sure if that was short or long or average. Or does it change depending on if it's an MEE question or a state-specific question? AZ doesn't do state-specific essays, just six MEE essays and 2 MPTs.
Yes, in PA we get 45 minutes and (I think) unlimited characters. We have 5 essays (usually 4 interrogatories per question) and 1 performance test of 90 minutes. They are state specific essays.

We have 6 essays and the PT in PA.

Dr. Review · Post by **Dr. Review** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:39 pm

TheBeard wrote:
Bedsole wrote:
releasethehounds wrote:Also, do time limits/character limits for essays change per jurisdiction? AZ gives 30 minutes and 5000 characters per essay. I wasn't sure if that was short or long or average. Or does it change depending on if it's an MEE question or a state-specific question? AZ doesn't do state-specific essays, just six MEE essays and 2 MPTs.
Yes, in PA we get 45 minutes and (I think) unlimited characters. We have 5 essays (usually 4 interrogatories per question) and 1 performance test of 90 minutes. They are state specific essays.
We have 6 essays and the PT in PA.

Well, if we have 6 then we must have at least 5, right? Just kidding, thanks for catching my typo.

Bikeflip · Post by **Bikeflip** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:03 pm

Yay video day. Good ole break.

Can someone explain question 55 to me, the notice statute question with the 2 mortgages and the kids? I got it right, but I have no idea how, and the video didn't help me understand it. Themis, I see you lurking.

Citizen Genet · Post by **Citizen Genet** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:57 pm

Anyone have any power outlines for Texas, specifically Commercial Paper, Secured Transactions, and the BA Topics?

releasethehounds · Post by **releasethehounds** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:03 pm

Bikeflip wrote:Yay video day. Good ole break.

Can someone explain question 55 to me, the notice statute question with the 2 mortgages and the kids? I got it right, but I have no idea how, and the video didn't help me understand it. Themis, I see you lurking.

I did the same thing, I just lucked into the answer and trying to figure it out drove me nuts afterwards. I can't guarantee this as being correct because to be honest I think at a point I had to cobble an explanation together to get myself to stop trying to figure it out:

This jurisdiction cites a notice statute, so when a lender gets a mortgage on property, but fails to record it, the mortgage isn't good against BFPs who take without notice of the prior existing mortgage. Because the lender never recorded the first mortgage, it isn't going to be any good against the couple who bought the house--they bought it without knowing it existed, and shouldn't have known it existed because it isn't in the title chain. Since the first mortgagee still has the security interest and so still holds the mortgage on the property, but lost the 'first priority spot', now the priority : The couple, first mortgagee.

The couple, however, bought the house with a purchase money mortgage--which automatically gets first priority. So their mortgagee is going to have priority over them and now we have: second mortgagee, couple, first mortgagee. When the couple died, their kids are going to take what the parents had by just stepping into their shoes. Ultimately when we plug them into the equation we end up with second mortgagee, children, first mortgagee.

TheBeard · Post by **TheBeard** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:12 pm

Bedsole wrote:
TheBeard wrote:
Bedsole wrote:
releasethehounds wrote:Also, do time limits/character limits for essays change per jurisdiction? AZ gives 30 minutes and 5000 characters per essay. I wasn't sure if that was short or long or average. Or does it change depending on if it's an MEE question or a state-specific question? AZ doesn't do state-specific essays, just six MEE essays and 2 MPTs.
Yes, in PA we get 45 minutes and (I think) unlimited characters. We have 5 essays (usually 4 interrogatories per question) and 1 performance test of 90 minutes. They are state specific essays.
We have 6 essays and the PT in PA.
Well, if we have 6 then we must have at least 5, right? Just kidding, thanks for catching my typo.

Oh, I didn't think it was a typo. I just wanted to make sure you knew it was 6. Either way, we're on the same page.

Vatican · Post by **Vatican** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:39 pm

If anyone else is currently hating commercial paper, here's a little proof that (in real life) you really don't need to know it...

The Supreme Court (Barnhill v. Johnson, 503 U.S. 393 (1992)) wrote: JUSTICE SCALIA: So we know what we're talking about, isn't the drawee the bank? I always thought the bank was--
Mr. Arland: There is a drawee bank, the drawee--
JUSTICE WHITE: You have the drawee--
Mr. Arland: You have the payor, that's the person who signs the check.
JUSTICE WHITE: The payee...
Mr. Arland: You have the payee, that's who the check's made out to.
JUSTICE SCALIA: The bank is the drawee bank, right?
JUSTICE WHITE: That's right.
Mr. Arland: That's correct.
JUSTICE SCALIA: And the payor is also the drawOR...
Mr. Arland: That's correct.
JUSTICE SCALIA: ...or the drawee?
Mr. Arland: The drawER, and the-- yes, that's correct.
JUSTICE WHITE: I'm talking about the fellow to whom the check was delivered!

Audio, at ~19:15 - 19:45

Bikeflip · Post by **Bikeflip** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:46 pm

Vatican wrote:If anyone else is currently hating commercial paper, here's a little proof that (in real life) you really don't need to know it...

The Supreme Court (Barnhill v. Johnson, 503 U.S. 393 (1992)) wrote: JUSTICE SCALIA: So we know what we're talking about, isn't the drawee the bank? I always thought the bank was--
Mr. Arland: There is a drawee bank, the drawee--
JUSTICE WHITE: You have the drawee--
Mr. Arland: You have the payor, that's the person who signs the check.
JUSTICE WHITE: The payee...
Mr. Arland: You have the payee, that's who the check's made out to.
JUSTICE SCALIA: The bank is the drawee bank, right?
JUSTICE WHITE: That's right.
Mr. Arland: That's correct.
JUSTICE SCALIA: And the payor is also the drawOR...
Mr. Arland: That's correct.
JUSTICE SCALIA: ...or the drawee?
Mr. Arland: The drawER, and the-- yes, that's correct.
JUSTICE WHITE: I'm talking about the fellow to whom the check was delivered!
Audio, at ~19:15 - 19:45

releasethehounds · Post by **releasethehounds** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:48 pm

Vatican wrote:If anyone else is currently hating commercial paper, here's a little proof that (in real life) you really don't need to know it...

The Supreme Court (Barnhill v. Johnson, 503 U.S. 393 (1992)) wrote: JUSTICE SCALIA: So we know what we're talking about, isn't the drawee the bank? I always thought the bank was--
Mr. Arland: There is a drawee bank, the drawee--
JUSTICE WHITE: You have the drawee--
Mr. Arland: You have the payor, that's the person who signs the check.
JUSTICE WHITE: The payee...
Mr. Arland: You have the payee, that's who the check's made out to.
JUSTICE SCALIA: The bank is the drawee bank, right?
JUSTICE WHITE: That's right.
Mr. Arland: That's correct.
JUSTICE SCALIA: And the payor is also the drawOR...
Mr. Arland: That's correct.
JUSTICE SCALIA: ...or the drawee?
Mr. Arland: The drawER, and the-- yes, that's correct.
JUSTICE WHITE: I'm talking about the fellow to whom the check was delivered!
Audio, at ~19:15 - 19:45

awesome. Oddly I'm sort of digging commercial paper but I'm finding I tend to gravitate towards the business law side of things. Also since AZ tests it 70% of the time, it's apparently too important for me to ignore

I have this huge stack of commercial law notecards and I've managed to whittle it down to only about 15 cards that I don't know. So. SILVER LINING.

GertrudePerkins · Post by **GertrudePerkins** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:40 pm

I swear to god, if I have to read one more variant of that problem where the computer programming company agrees to develop a new billing system that will improve efficiency by 50% (and then falls three percentage points short)....

as stars burn · Post by **as stars burn** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:42 pm

GertrudePerkins wrote:I swear to god, if I have to read one more variant of that problem where the computer programming company agrees to develop a new billing system that will improve efficiency by 50% (and then falls three percentage points short)....

LOL, I know! I swear it came up at least 3-4 times during the same MBE set I had!!

Agoraphobia · Post by **Agoraphobia** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:48 pm

They're still asking about that by set 11 if anyone cares to know. I had two, maybe three. They do switch it up by changing the type of store....

Bikeflip · Post by **Bikeflip** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:37 pm

So many dumb mistakes. At least 15 on the MBE simulation.

Agoraphobia · Post by **Agoraphobia** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:52 pm

IL takers - Anyone understand the IL distinction on mortgages? says we are neither a lien state, nor a title state, but an "intermediate" state... BUT, the description sounds just the same as a lien state "The borrower still owns the property, the lender has a lien on the property, and when the debt is paid the title is released to the borrower/owner."

Maybe in lien states the borrower has title all along? Confused...

TIA

locusdelicti · Post by **locusdelicti** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:56 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:IL takers - Anyone understand the IL distinction on mortgages? says we are neither a lien state, nor a title state, but an "intermediate" state... BUT, the description sounds just the same as a lien state "The borrower still owns the property, the lender has a lien on the property, and when the debt is paid the title is released to the borrower/owner."

Maybe in lien states the borrower has title all along? Confused...

TIA

In lien states, the borrower does have title all along. Your name is on the deed and the mortgage is just a lien. Sounds like IL keeps hte deed until the debt is paid.

locusdelicti · Post by **locusdelicti** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:56 pm

Can't seem to get my MBE scores up in test mode. I'm getting frustrated.

releasethehounds · Post by **releasethehounds** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:00 pm

Agoraphobia wrote:IL takers - Anyone understand the IL distinction on mortgages? says we are neither a lien state, nor a title state, but an "intermediate" state... BUT, the description sounds just the same as a lien state "The borrower still owns the property, the lender has a lien on the property, and when the debt is paid the title is released to the borrower/owner."

Maybe in lien states the borrower has title all along? Confused...

TIA

In a lien state the borrower does retain title to the property--the lender just has a security interest.

Also that doesn't jive with what I experienced in the IL foreclosure clinic (where we operated under IL being lien theory)...and also in classes I took my professors swore up and down that IL is a lien theory state. In the clinic one of our graceful exit options was to have the lender take a deed in lieu of foreclosure. I feel like in a state where the lender retains title, that wouldn't...be possible. Why would they take the deed in lieu of foreclosing if they already have the deed.

GRANTED my understanding of mortgages is admittedly still not the greatest.

releasethehounds · Post by **releasethehounds** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:11 pm

Okay, nevermind, Modern Real Estate Practice in Illinois has told me the following:

Illinois does not strictly adhere to either title theory or lien theory. As a result Illinois is often referred to as an intermediate-theory state, but many would say it leans toward lien-theory (benefitting the consumer). Mortgages and deeds of trust in Illinois convey only qualified title to the lender as a security for the loan during the existence of the debt. The mortgagor/purchaser remains the owner of the mortgaged property for all beneficial purposes, subject to the lien created by the mortgage or deed of trust. The qualified title held by lender is subject to the defeasance clause, which stipulates such title must be fully reconveyed, or released, to the mortgagor at the time the debt is repaid in full.

I am now on board with Illinois as intermediate and take back my previous confusion.

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