. Forum

[Bustang]

Question for the Evidence buffs out there.

Please help me reconcile the following two points:
1. If there is a mistake in the admissibility of evidence, that error will only form the basis for an appeal if (a) a substantial right of a party has been affected; AND (b) the judge was notified of that error at trial.
2. Plain Error Rule: errors that affect substantial rights are grounds for reversal even if no objection or offer of proof was made.

If there's an error affecting substantial rights, do I or don't I need to notify the judge? What's the difference between being grounds for reversal and being basis for appeal and why is there a higher barrier for the latter?

I think you have to notify the judge of any error, affecting substantial rights or not.

If the substantial right has been affected and the judge is notified, it can be appealed, and the court of appeals will be able to review whether it is reversible or not. It's not automatically reversible; it just provides grounds for reversal.

Or something.

Agreed. It's also helpful to go directly to FRE 103 and the committee notes. The way I understand it, 1) substantial right + 2) notifying court preserves it for appeal. The plain error rule allows a court, on appeal, to reverse (especially a criminal conviction) even if the trial court was not notified of the error and they are reviewing the case for another issue. (I looked at federal criminal procedure rule 52 for clarification)
I could be wrong

I like to think of the plain error rule as the fail-safe for appeals courts. The general rule is you need a substantial right affected to make an objection. The objection must be timely and specific. If timely and specific, then preserved for appeal. If counsel fails to do this, the appeals court still has the plain error rule in its pocket if they feel the need to reverse or decide the issue based on the substantial right not properly objected to/failure to provide offer of proof.

[Reinhardt]

Part of it is that I'm filling out the handout without listening to him.

[Agoraphobia]

Question for the Evidence buffs out there.

Please help me reconcile the following two points:
1. If there is a mistake in the admissibility of evidence, that error will only form the basis for an appeal if (a) a substantial right of a party has been affected; AND (b) the judge was notified of that error at trial.
2. Plain Error Rule: errors that affect substantial rights are grounds for reversal even if no objection or offer of proof was made.

If there's an error affecting substantial rights, do I or don't I need to notify the judge? What's the difference between being grounds for reversal and being basis for appeal and why is there a higher barrier for the latter?

I think you have to notify the judge of any error, affecting substantial rights or not.

If the substantial right has been affected and the judge is notified, it can be appealed, and the court of appeals will be able to review whether it is reversible or not. It's not automatically reversible; it just provides grounds for reversal.

Or something.

Agreed. It's also helpful to go directly to FRE 103 and the committee notes. The way I understand it, 1) substantial right + 2) notifying court preserves it for appeal. The plain error rule allows a court, on appeal, to reverse (especially a criminal conviction) even if the trial court was not notified of the error and they are reviewing the case for another issue. (I looked at federal criminal procedure rule 52 for clarification)
I could be wrong

I like to think of the plain error rule as the fail-safe for appeals courts. The general rule is you need a substantial right affected to make an objection. The objection must be timely and specific. If timely and specific, then preserved for appeal. If counsel fails to do this, the appeals court still has the plain error rule in its pocket if they feel the need to reverse or decide the issue based on the substantial right not properly objected to/failure to provide offer of proof.

This helps, thanks.

[as stars burn]

Just got my ass rocked by a crim pro MBE prac Q session 4. This pack of MBE's tested on some exotic law -- 8th Am, ineffective assistance of counsel, crim pro evidence issues, basically all Crim Pro B-sides and rarities (very little 4th and 5th Am stuff). Maybe I'm just tired or something but I hit a 38 percent on this junk while I have been hitting in the 70's on every other section. Anybody else come across this cock sucker of a crim pro MBE session?

I hear you brother man. And interactive mode doesn't help. I get progressively more pissed off with each wrong answer, such that as I approach question 30 or so, I'm ready to chuck my laptop across the fucking room.

I know this is a semi-old post, but I just want you both to know that this little exchange right here made my night. I laughed so damn hard, especially since I feel this way in interactive mode a lot.

[Bikeflip]

Seriously. Fuck property. I'm somehow back in the 60s on all subjects, but property.

[Kretzy]

Guzman is KILLING me for Contracts & Sales. Every time he prefaces a three-minute example with "this is going to be exactly what you expect," it gives me a sad.

Makes me miss Property Moby.

[elysiansmiles]

When I pause a video for a while (like to go to the bathroom or something) when I come back, the video will restart at the beginning without 1.5/2x capability. It all goes back to normal if I refresh and jump ahead to where I was, but its a mild annoyance. I feel like its almost intentional, like I'm being punished if I can't watch a video the whole way though.

[geekrocker37]

Milestone 2 just destroyed me. Fuck

[HETPE3B]

How I felt while taking the milestone exam this morning:



ETA: but miraculously pulled off a 43/50. Really not feeling like reviewing this thing.

[dsclaw]

What time do you guys start that you finished the Milestone exam already, damn, must be nice to be basically done for the day. I just got up and am about to start it, might look over criminal stuff a little more

[HETPE3B]

What time do you guys start that you finished the Milestone exam already, damn, must be nice to be basically done for the day. I just got up and am about to start it, might look over criminal stuff a little more

It's only a 90-minute deal. Not a simulated morning session or anything. I started around 8:30.

[lsatlsat]

When I pause a video for a while (like to go to the bathroom or something) when I come back, the video will restart at the beginning without 1.5/2x capability. It all goes back to normal if I refresh and jump ahead to where I was, but its a mild annoyance. I feel like its almost intentional, like I'm being punished if I can't watch a video the whole way though.

You should send an e-mail to info@themisbar.com. I've complained and so have a few classmates of mine. They say "it's fine on their end" and to clear my browser's cache (which I've done) or switch to Chrome (which I'm already using). Hopefully if more people say something they'll actually address it, or at least take ownership over their techno-challenged interface.

[locusdelicti]

I'm really having a hard time remembering the Pennsylvania differences for things. I guess I haven't really reviewed any of it yet, but it makes me nervous. I'm not sure what to do. Blah.

[GertrudePerkins]

Does anyone feel like the questions on the Milestone Exams feel a little easier than the MBE PQ sessions? Not that the material is any different or easier, just like there's less ambiguity in the questions and/or answer choices.

Or maybe it's all in my head. Perhaps the product of being more focused on the Milestone Exams.

[Kretzy]

Does anyone feel like the questions on the Milestone Exams feel a little easier than the MBE PQ sessions? Not that the material is any different or easier, just like there's less ambiguity in the questions and/or answer choices.

Or maybe it's all in my head. Perhaps the product of being more focused on the Milestone Exams.

Yeah, I thought Milestone 1 was slightly easier than the MBE PQs. Nothing substantial, but a couple fewer ambiguities. I thought there were fewer "I have no idea what I'm doing" questions, and more where I could narrow it to 2 and pick, even if I wound up with the wrong answer.

But it might've been focus, and might have been not doing it on interactive mode and having that fuck with my sense of when things are going well/poorly.

[balzie94]

I felt that the Milestone was easier with regard to Contracts and Crim, and harder with respect to Evidence and Crim Pro. Like, it asked a lot of easier Contracts and Crim Law questions, but the Evidence and Crim Pro were much harder than they could have been.

[Agoraphobia]

Can we take the Milestone late? Can't find the email where she said this. I'm thinking Yes?

[kalvano]

Can we take the Milestone late? Can't find the email where she said this. I'm thinking Yes?

Yes. You can take it anytime, you just have to switch to Flex Study and choose "Milestone Exams." They recommend not taking it until you've had all the criminal and evidence lectures.

[TheBeard]

I found myself guessing a lot more on Milestone Exam 2. Evidence is going to be the death of me.

[TheBeard]

Does anyone feel like the questions on the Milestone Exams feel a little easier than the MBE PQ sessions? Not that the material is any different or easier, just like there's less ambiguity in the questions and/or answer choices.

Or maybe it's all in my head. Perhaps the product of being more focused on the Milestone Exams.

Yeah, I thought Milestone 1 was slightly easier than the MBE PQs. Nothing substantial, but a couple fewer ambiguities. I thought there were fewer "I have no idea what I'm doing" questions, and more where I could narrow it to 2 and pick, even if I wound up with the wrong answer.

But it might've been focus, and might have been not doing it on interactive mode and having that fuck with my sense of when things are going well/poorly.

I stopped doing MBE PQs on interactive mode and my scores went up substantially. I think I carried the frustration of an incorrect answer to the next question.

[locusdelicti]

I am taking PA. I have no idea what we need to get on essays. I know the PT counts for 1.5x the points as one essay answer, so doing well on that will help, but as far as how much we need to get right on the essays to pass combined with MBE? No idea. I do know from previous bar exams that MBE is more important than essays.... I just don't know why, because I am very shitty at understanding that kind of math. Scaling and scoring and whatnot.

I bet you could ask Kevin Frost.

Yeah, I'm going to email him. I don't think the MBE can be more important since PA weighs the essays and MBEs at 55% and 45% respectively.

Did you ever contact Kevin Frost about this, by any chance?

[as stars burn]

Does anyone feel like the questions on the Milestone Exams feel a little easier than the MBE PQ sessions? Not that the material is any different or easier, just like there's less ambiguity in the questions and/or answer choices.

Or maybe it's all in my head. Perhaps the product of being more focused on the Milestone Exams.

Yeah, I thought Milestone 1 was slightly easier than the MBE PQs. Nothing substantial, but a couple fewer ambiguities. I thought there were fewer "I have no idea what I'm doing" questions, and more where I could narrow it to 2 and pick, even if I wound up with the wrong answer.

But it might've been focus, and might have been not doing it on interactive mode and having that fuck with my sense of when things are going well/poorly.

I stopped doing MBE PQs on interactive mode and my scores went up substantially. I think I carried the frustration of an incorrect answer to the next question.

I need to start doing this. Interactive mode makes me want to punch someone in the face with each wrong answer--it definitely changes my thinking throughout the rest of the set.

[BarbellDreams]

Dumbest question in thread: Where do we get the extra MBE question sets? It seems like if you go to to the MBE questions in flex study each topic has about 5 sets of questions which = 170 questions per topic. Themis said there were over 10,000 so that just doesn't add up. I have no use in practicing Crim or Evidence but I need all the hep I can get with Torts and Con Law and I am done with all 5 sets available to me in flex study. Am I just not seeing it?

[as stars burn]

Can we take the Milestone late? Can't find the email where she said this. I'm thinking Yes?

Yes. You can take it anytime, you just have to switch to Flex Study and choose "Milestone Exams." They recommend not taking it until you've had all the criminal and evidence lectures.

I second that. I probably won't take Milestone 2 until Wednesday. I'm desperately trying to finish the Contracts material and at least 2 MBE practice sets for Contracts before doing the Milestone.

[as stars burn]

Would anyone mind sending me their Crim Pro Handout (Karlan) with the answers filled in? I went to go open my PDF today and noticed that none of my answers saved from when I ran through the lectures. So lame.