University of Oklahoma 2010!

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Mellojello7
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby Mellojello7 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:12 am

Any of you 1L's in here start in the summer through the EAP program? If so, what are your general thoughts as far recommending it to others?

isaiah6v8
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby isaiah6v8 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:16 am

patrickd139 wrote:
isaiah6v8 wrote:what about getting a prosecutor job in Texas or Florida, or even a JAG appointment? Just wondering if you have heard of any of your friends doing something like this. Are you from OK originally?


Update: though my advice remains the same as the last post on this, I was just offered a summer internship with the US Attorney's office for the Eastern District of Texas. Moral of the story: it's possible.


congrats! now if you could just write me a "get a summer internship with the US Attorneys office for Dummies" book that would make my life a lot easier. :D

drwjr21
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby drwjr21 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:39 pm

Just got the acceptance call, very excited!

Stephanie13
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby Stephanie13 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:47 pm

Congrats!!

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donzoli
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby donzoli » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:58 pm

Mellojello7 wrote:Any of you 1L's in here start in the summer through the EAP program? If so, what are your general thoughts as far recommending it to others?


I'm wondering the same, if anyone could help on this.

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patrickd139
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:51 pm

donzoli wrote:
Mellojello7 wrote:Any of you 1L's in here start in the summer through the EAP program? If so, what are your general thoughts as far recommending it to others?


I'm wondering the same, if anyone could help on this.


I did not do this program, and have limited knowledge, so beware.

IIRC, you take 1 or 2 classes with other EAP students (evidence and crim law, last summer). It's usually a small group, around 20 or so students and in all other ways is just like a regular class (taught by a regular faculty member, etc.). It's a short semester--about 7 weeks during the first part of the summer-- and it results in you taking one fewer class during the spring semester of 1L year. The plus: you have one fewer class, and thus more time for other classes spring semester, in theory. The minus: you cannot fill that time gap with another class, thus you pay cost of living without taking a full load.

I have friends who did this program, so give me specific questions, and I'll try my best to get back to you.

isaiah6v8
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby isaiah6v8 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:49 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
donzoli wrote:
Mellojello7 wrote:Any of you 1L's in here start in the summer through the EAP program? If so, what are your general thoughts as far recommending it to others?


I'm wondering the same, if anyone could help on this.


I did not do this program, and have limited knowledge, so beware.

IIRC, you take 1 or 2 classes with other EAP students (evidence and crim law, last summer). It's usually a small group, around 20 or so students and in all other ways is just like a regular class (taught by a regular faculty member, etc.). It's a short semester--about 7 weeks during the first part of the summer-- and it results in you taking one fewer class during the spring semester of 1L year. The plus: you have one fewer class, and thus more time for other classes spring semester, in theory. The minus: you cannot fill that time gap with another class, thus you pay cost of living without taking a full load.

I have friends who did this program, so give me specific questions, and I'll try my best to get back to you.


So Patrick, I was kidding about the book earlier, of course, but how did you land yourself your gig with US Attorney's office? Mind sharing your ranking or at least a general, how you did amongst your peers?

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patrickd139
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:04 pm

isaiah6v8 wrote:So Patrick, I was kidding about the book earlier, of course, but how did you land yourself your gig with US Attorney's office? Mind sharing your ranking or at least a general, how you did amongst your peers?


I applied earlier than everyone else and, like most people landing those jobs, knew some people. I'll answer your second question via PM if you can tell me the difference between the two bolded above.

isaiah6v8
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby isaiah6v8 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:09 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
isaiah6v8 wrote:So Patrick, I was kidding about the book earlier, of course, but how did you land yourself your gig with US Attorney's office? Mind sharing your ranking or at least a general, how you did amongst your peers?


I applied earlier than everyone else and, like most people landing those jobs, knew some people. I'll answer your second question via PM if you can tell me the difference between the two bolded above.


I was just giving you a way to not have to give a "ranking" but a general how you did. Obviously, either would work for what I am wondering, I just didn't know how specific you would be comfortable with. Thanks!

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patrickd139
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 pm

isaiah6v8 wrote:I was just giving you a way to not have to give a "ranking" but a general how you did. Obviously, either would work for what I am wondering, I just didn't know how specific you would be comfortable with. Thanks!


Appreciated. PM'd.

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Mellojello7
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby Mellojello7 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:18 am

patrickd139 wrote:
donzoli wrote:
Mellojello7 wrote:Any of you 1L's in here start in the summer through the EAP program? If so, what are your general thoughts as far recommending it to others?


I'm wondering the same, if anyone could help on this.


I did not do this program, and have limited knowledge, so beware.

IIRC, you take 1 or 2 classes with other EAP students (evidence and crim law, last summer). It's usually a small group, around 20 or so students and in all other ways is just like a regular class (taught by a regular faculty member, etc.). It's a short semester--about 7 weeks during the first part of the summer-- and it results in you taking one fewer class during the spring semester of 1L year. The plus: you have one fewer class, and thus more time for other classes spring semester, in theory. The minus: you cannot fill that time gap with another class, thus you pay cost of living without taking a full load.

I have friends who did this program, so give me specific questions, and I'll try my best to get back to you.

Thanks for the response Patrick.

I find the whole EAP thing kinda weird. Basically they told me that I was waitlisted but only for the EAP. They said I was not even being considered for the fall. When I asked if they were using the EAP program as a probationary period or a try out of sorts they said no. Only thing I can think of is if they consider the EAP and regular fall different classes with the EAP class being compromised of students they're taking a gamble on. My reservation is starting law school two weeks after graduating from undergrad. At the end of the day though, its my only way of getting in this year so I guess I'd have to accept it if I wanted to start in 2010.

isaiah6v8
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby isaiah6v8 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:47 am

Mellojello7 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
donzoli wrote:
Mellojello7 wrote:Any of you 1L's in here start in the summer through the EAP program? If so, what are your general thoughts as far recommending it to others?


I'm wondering the same, if anyone could help on this.


I did not do this program, and have limited knowledge, so beware.

IIRC, you take 1 or 2 classes with other EAP students (evidence and crim law, last summer). It's usually a small group, around 20 or so students and in all other ways is just like a regular class (taught by a regular faculty member, etc.). It's a short semester--about 7 weeks during the first part of the summer-- and it results in you taking one fewer class during the spring semester of 1L year. The plus: you have one fewer class, and thus more time for other classes spring semester, in theory. The minus: you cannot fill that time gap with another class, thus you pay cost of living without taking a full load.

I have friends who did this program, so give me specific questions, and I'll try my best to get back to you.

Thanks for the response Patrick.

I find the whole EAP thing kinda weird. Basically they told me that I was waitlisted but only for the EAP. They said I was not even being considered for the fall. When I asked if they were using the EAP program as a probationary period or a try out of sorts they said no. Only thing I can think of is if they consider the EAP and regular fall different classes with the EAP class being compromised of students they're taking a gamble on. My reservation is starting law school two weeks after graduating from undergrad. At the end of the day though, its my only way of getting in this year so I guess I'd have to accept it if I wanted to start in 2010.


MJ - I think you are right based on a conversation I had with the admissions office during the summer. Basically, if you think you might not be admitted into the regular fall admission, then you should have checked the EAP as well, and then they will consider you for being able to take the classes in the summer. I am sure this is actually beneficial to both the school and the students. I bet some students find that they can't handle the workload, and the school probably weeds out those who can't perform. Those that remain are fit and ready for the fall. Those who leave are probably better off having not spent a whole semester's worth of tuition.

Of course, as you stated (in bold now), this is not your only option, it is just your only option for this year. I have been out of UG for 8 years and have built a reputation and have WE to lean on. You may choose to wait, and work for a little while prior to going to law school. If you are in OK you could at least feel good about the fact that the job market in OK is better than most places. Best of luck on your decision!

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Mellojello7
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby Mellojello7 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:33 pm

Thanks Isaiah.

I'm leaning towards sitting out a year and retaking the LSAT. Getting that WE would be beneficial in many ways.

isaiah6v8
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby isaiah6v8 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:05 pm

Mellojello7 wrote:Thanks Isaiah.

I'm leaning towards sitting out a year and retaking the LSAT. Getting that WE would be beneficial in many ways.


I know this may not be what you want to hear, but you should probably try to land a job that you could enjoy for maybe 2 or 3 years to make it a soft factor that matters. That being said, I am not an adcom, and I am as new to the process as you are, this is just what I have gotten from my observations. Also, I have no idea of your numbers, you could have a great GPA which doesn't need the WE help. Good luck!

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patrickd139
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby patrickd139 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:47 pm

LS admissions is vastly different from business school. Overall, WE only functions as a necessity to get into Northwestern; even then far from a sufficiency.

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Mellojello7
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby Mellojello7 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:49 am

I meant WE in the useful for life sense. Having a real job and supporting myself type of experience. But I know what you guys are saying, I don't expect it to mean anything for LS admissions. Maybe my new LSAT can justify that application to Northwestern next cycle haha.

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donzoli
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby donzoli » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:59 pm

Does anyone know if EAP is any different in terms of getting scholarship money?

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patrickd139
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:20 pm

donzoli wrote:Does anyone know if EAP is any different in terms of getting scholarship money?

Not sure about your question. My advice (and this is generic for all specific questions): call Susan Wilson at 405-325-4726.

isaiah6v8
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby isaiah6v8 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:04 am

Patrick do you know any students at OU who are pursuing judicial clerkships? What has been their feel about the process?

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patrickd139
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:13 pm

isaiah6v8 wrote:Patrick do you know any students at OU who are pursuing judicial clerkships? What has been their feel about the process?

Clerkships in the true sense of the word (post-graduation): 10th Circuit COA is open to the top 2 or 3 students, provided you have the right connections with professors, credentials (LR, Moot Court, published) and don't deadfish during an interview. Federal District Courts hire as far down as 10-15 in the class, or so I've heard, provided they have the same criteria as someone who lands a COA clerkship, save for grades.

Judicial externships/internships (2L summer): we routinely place a student or two in the 10th circuit during the summer and have lots of success in the federal district courts. The legal community in OK is very small and very tightly connected; the federal court system is not much different in that respect.

I don't have hard numbers, but the end result mirrors most T2 regional law schools: if you're number one, you've got a shot at the COA. If you're top ~5%, you've got a shot at the federal district courts.

OU generally owns the state clerkship market, but there are very few full-time available. Most go to people with political connections. State judicial externships/internships are also easy to land as a 1L and 2L, but unpaid and not prestigious.

isaiah6v8
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby isaiah6v8 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:08 am

patrickd139 wrote:10th Circuit COA is open to the top 2 or 3 students,Federal District Courts hire as far down as 10-15 in the class,
Judicial externships/internships (2L summer): we routinely place a student or two in the 10th circuit during the summer and have lots of success in the federal district courts. The legal community in OK is very small and very tightly connected; the federal court system is not much different in that respect.

OU generally owns the state clerkship market, but there are very few full-time available. Most go to people with political connections. State judicial externships/internships are also easy to land as a 1L and 2L, but unpaid and not prestigious.


Thanks for the info Patrick, when you talk about the top 2 or 3, do you mean one of those 3 may go, or there are up to 3 positions a year filled by those folks? Also the part in bold, I understand the unpaid part, obviously, but in terms of prestige are they still helpful for landing clerkships or similar jobs later on, or are they really more just like a filler?

cuzco2000
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby cuzco2000 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:37 am

For all of you that are attending, I just created a facebook group, so hopefully we can get to know each other a little before orientation, its called OU Law Class of 2013

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patrickd139
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:00 am

cuzco2000 wrote:For all of you that are attending, I just created a facebook group, so hopefully we can get to know each other a little before orientation, its called OU Law Class of 2013

Fantastic idea. The upper classes also sponsor a few events in the week or two leading up to orientation. I know it's a long way off, but I highly recommend it.

isaiah6v8 wrote:Thanks for the info Patrick, when you talk about the top 2 or 3, do you mean one of those 3 may go, or there are up to 3 positions a year filled by those folks? Also the part in bold, I understand the unpaid part, obviously, but in terms of prestige are they still helpful for landing clerkships or similar jobs later on, or are they really more just like a filler?

I most definitely mean one out of the top 2 or 3. Many years we do not send any, but I think there have been ~5 this last decade.

Re: state court clerkships, they're probably not going to land you a job, but they certainly won't hurt when applying to OK's top firms. Two things on this, though.

1) Really research the OK state court system before you commit to anything. It's screwy. We have two courts of last resort. All trial courts appeal directly to either the State Supreme Court or the Court of Criminal Appeals. For civil cases, the SSC immediately assigns them at random to one of four Courts of Civil Appeal. Those cases are then appealed back to the SSC on a cert basis only. SSC adjudicates fewer cases than SCOTUS (around 100 per year) and does not hear oral arguments. CCA hears oral arguments, but mostly accepts appeals from capital cases. Unfortunately we still kill people here.

2) As a general rule, firms only give partnership credit (you start out as a 2nd year associate for pay-grade and seniority reasons) for Art. III federal judges.

3) Double-check me on this one, but I believe most state court judges do not hire term clerks (many have 'career' clerks, instead).

Re: federal judicial internships/externships. These are almost exclusively filler. They're not terribly difficult to land and, therefore, not terribly prestigious. They do, however, provide excellent experience for your 1L and 2L (if you can't find paid work) summers. And provide a solid LOR which goes farther in OK because of the smallish legal market.

washed out
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby washed out » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:11 am

Just got a scholarship packet valued at 1 G.

Eh, that'll do.

I still need to take an official visit. If anyone knows they'll be a 1L this fall, feel free to shoot me a PM.

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donzoli
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Re: University of Oklahoma 2010!

Postby donzoli » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:07 pm

washed out wrote:Just got a scholarship packet valued at 1 G.

Eh, that'll do.

I still need to take an official visit. If anyone knows they'll be a 1L this fall, feel free to shoot me a PM.


Would you mind sharing your #'s?




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