Top Law Schools

I think there is some kind of discount at Qdoba...

Bankhead wrote:I think there is some kind of discount at Qdoba...

Shit, that smart ass response was far superior to my smart ass response. The only legitimate "prize" I guess would be the scribe award.

Spoonmanners wrote:

Bankhead wrote:I think there is some kind of discount at Qdoba...

Shit, that smart ass response was far superior to my smart ass response. The only legitimate "prize" I guess would be the scribe award.

Which, admittedly, looks really good on a resume.

Spoonmanners wrote:

pieceofbeth wrote:I'm trying to decide whether or not to do the summer start. Mostly I want to enjoy my summer. Would you say it gave you a major advantage in terms of study techniques, making friends, etc?

Thanks.

It's only a month early, so it's not bad. Your summer isn't gone. You get to know all the summers pretty well, and learn pretty quick how you should be studying. You get a good bunch of people you know, learn where everything is, already have your TV hooked up, etc.

Major advantage? No. Everyone thought it was, but from what grades I have heard, it wasn't too much help. It was good for me because I have gotten a slow start on... pretty much everything in my life. So I managed to hit fall semester at where I should be.

I think I summer grades for granted a little, not realizing every teacher is testing for something different. Some people are better at short answer, some are better at multiple choice, others are better on long answer, and all the above will get fucked over in criminal procedure. Or whatever 2L class you take, will be full of the smart 2L's. They are smart because they picked a class with 1L's who have only taken one exam and those 2L's have a schedule 1/3rd as hectic.

Still, I'd do it again. The school was really good about giving the class for cheap. I ended up taking torts for a few hundred dollars. I think it would be way too crazy trying to figure out where to eat/park/who to talk to/finish moving along with 5 classes.

Who are they offering to teach for the summer start program anyways?

I would say +1 to all of this. I had a great time during summer start and wouldn't possibly change my decision.

And I believe it's Don G teaching torts again.

Roughly how many students do the summer start program? I most likely won't be doing the summer start, but I don't want to feel at a disadvantage from those who started in the summer.

Threepeat wrote:Roughly how many students do the summer start program? I most likely won't be doing the summer start, but I don't want to feel at a disadvantage from those who started in the summer.

We had 53. Don't know what the usual number is. But essentially 1/4 of the class of 2012 is summer starters.

I really wish I had done summer start, but mainly because, from an outside perspective, it really felt like the summer start students all knew each other fairly well by the end.

So all the NLJ250 & Clerkship stats that came out today kind of terrified me. Anyone have a positive spin?

RMstratosphere wrote:So all the NLJ250 & Clerkship stats that came out today kind of terrified me. Anyone have a positive spin?

I already added my thoughts to another IU thread. Wasn't terribly surprising, IMO.

It's a miserable showing. Plain and simple.

Honestly, I feel like we're making a lot ado about nothing. IU almost always places about 10% into biglaw. The difference between 10% and 15% making it in is pretty small in my opinion.

I find the information in the thread combining NLJ250 and clerkships into one number to be much more disconcerting. (See link below, halfway down the first page) Still, if I end up choosing IUB it was never about my chances at biglaw. Of course, the option would be nice...


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

It's a terrible showing because schools like Wisconsin and (cough) Wake Forest are putting 25% in. That's why it's a terrible showing.

IU has great professors, it's on a beautiful campus, in a fun town, with collegial classmates and staff. If you want biglaw, however, do not come here for two reasons:

1. Bad NLJ placement.
2. Coupled with very high competition. It's much harder to place in the top 11% of your class here than it would be, say at Pitt or Temple.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that this still affects you if you don't want a big law firm job. There is a trickle down effect. if the top 15% of the class isn't able to get into biglaw, they are going to start taking your gov't/public interest jobs.

Halibut6 wrote:Honestly, I feel like we're making a lot ado about nothing. IU almost always places about 10% into biglaw. The difference between 10% and 15% making it in is pretty small in my opinion.

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Bankhead wrote:It's a terrible showing because schools like Wisconsin and (cough) Wake Forest are putting 25% in. That's why it's a terrible showing.

IU has great professors, it's on a beautiful campus, in a fun town, with collegial classmates and staff. If you want biglaw, however, do not come here for two reasons:

1. Bad NLJ placement.
2. Coupled with very high competition. It's much harder to place in the top 11% of your class here than it would be, say at Pitt or Temple.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that this still affects you if you don't want a big law firm job. There is a trickle down effect. if the top 15% of the class isn't able to get into biglaw, they are going to start taking your gov't/public interest jobs.

Bankhead, are you backtracking on your earlier advice to me to choose IUB > Pitt.

(Note: I'm just messing with you, but you seem stressed so I wanted to make it very apparent.)

badwithpseudonyms wrote:

Bankhead wrote:It's a terrible showing because schools like Wisconsin and (cough) Wake Forest are putting 25% in. That's why it's a terrible showing.

IU has great professors, it's on a beautiful campus, in a fun town, with collegial classmates and staff. If you want biglaw, however, do not come here for two reasons:

1. Bad NLJ placement.
2. Coupled with very high competition. It's much harder to place in the top 11% of your class here than it would be, say at Pitt or Temple.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that this still affects you if you don't want a big law firm job. There is a trickle down effect. if the top 15% of the class isn't able to get into biglaw, they are going to start taking your gov't/public interest jobs.

Bankhead, are you backtracking on your earlier advice to me to choose IUB > Pitt.

(Note: I'm just messing with you, but you seem stressed so I wanted to make it very apparent.)

.

Honestly, Bankhead, you can't pin all of this on IUB. The economy sucks. You also have to realize there's a lot of self selection involved. I know two 2L's who are both in the top 10% of their class and neither is interested in Big Law.

On top of that, our class is the one that made the jump to 23rd rank. We haven't been counted yet. I think you'll see a real indicator of where Indiana will be going when we truly hit the job market and not just rinky dink 1L opportunities.

Mulliganstew wrote:Honestly, Bankhead, you can't pin all of this on IUB. The economy sucks. You also have to realize there's a lot of self selection involved. I know two 2L's who are both in the top 10% of their class and neither is interested in Big Law.

On top of that, our class is the one that made the jump to 23rd rank. We haven't been counted yet. I think you'll see a real indicator of where Indiana will be going when we truly hit the job market and not just rinky dink 1L opportunities.

Dude, OSU and Wake Forest placed 25%... in the same economy.

Your second point is very credited. Though I hope we all see that it takes a long time to change a reputation. This data may also kill our ranking.

We've always been lower than Wisconsin in big law placement... not sure what the big issue is there.

Yes, we dropped 5%. Most schools did. (Although it's such a pain in the ass to try to find 2009's numbers to compare.)

Does it suck that our numbers went down? Yeah. Do I think we don't belong in the same league as Illinois and Wisconsin? No. I actually think Indiana, as a whole, is a better school than Illinois. Illinois' biggest thing going for it is its relatively close distance to Chicago combined with its past reputation. With all of the corrupt practices going on there, I fully expect it to drop below Indiana in the rankings in this spring's US News list.

Positive spin? Uh... the school has been on the rise recently, and this data is from a few classes ago. So, I would assume we would move up?

Realistically, I don't know. I think IU should be moving up, and obviously improvements don't have an immediate effect.

I have also heard much better things about other schools career departments. Top 40's in my hometown saying career development will do just about anything to get their students a job. Our office isn't quite like that. Nice people, but it seems like they don't know where very many jobs are, and offer more general advice than anything that will get us 1L jobs. Still, these are 1L jobs and the market sucks. I dunno how much is to blame on OCPD or the market, but it's pretty clear neither are that much help.

A 3L told me that you will be sadly mistaken if you expect OCPD to get you a job. I think has been true for awhile. Even thumbing throw firm websites with lists of OCI's, few come here. And it has nothing to do with location or ranking. Most will go to nearby schools, and some T2's and T3's that aren't even local to the firm. I really feel like somewhere here just pissed off a lot of firms years ago and now no one wants to come here.

Hopefully there is a turn around, on both the market and the firms that get brought here (or that even look at our students). It would be great if we weren't all fighting for unpaid internships right now. As someone doing reasonably well in class, I don't know how those whose grades didn't work out as well will manage this summer.

I've had the exact opposite experiences with OCPD, Spoon. They've been very helpful in hooking me up with potential contacts.

Mulliganstew wrote:We've always been lower than Wisconsin in big law placement... not sure what the big issue is there.

Yes, we dropped 5%. Most schools did. (Although it's such a pain in the ass to try to find 2009's numbers to compare.)

Does it suck that our numbers went down? Yeah. Do I think we don't belong in the same league as Illinois and Wisconsin? No. I actually think Indiana, as a whole, is a better school than Illinois. Illinois' biggest thing going for it is its relatively close distance to Chicago combined with its past reputation. With all of the corrupt practices going on there, I fully expect it to drop below Indiana in the rankings in this spring's US News list.

Always lower than Wisconsin? Really? I didn't know Wisconsin was this big law powerhouse...

How do you know how much we dropped?

You've made the conclusory assertion that IU is a better school than Illinois in at least 3 threads now. But you never support it. Truthfully, you've not been a 1L at both schools, so it's impossible for you to make that claim with any type of sincerity.

Mulliganstew wrote:I've had the exact opposite experiences with OCPD, Spoon. They've been very helpful in hooking me up with potential contacts.

You must have had Caroline, as she is the only person that has really come recommended out of the office. I didn't have her. I was given one contact, but it wasn't in the area I wanted to practice in. And it wasn't really what I wanted to do anyways. I have been disappointed with what I hoping to get out of OCPD. They have been nice, and have given me help, but nothing that has really helped me with a potential contact to get a job/internship. I've been doing my own leg work.

As a side note, Wisconsin has always had great employment numbers. At least for the past few years, their salaries and numbers have been great, but they turned me way off during their application process. Even if I hate them, I believe all their salary averages/medians/what-have-you are substantially higher than ours.

Bankhead wrote:

Mulliganstew wrote:We've always been lower than Wisconsin in big law placement... not sure what the big issue is there.

Yes, we dropped 5%. Most schools did. (Although it's such a pain in the ass to try to find 2009's numbers to compare.)

Does it suck that our numbers went down? Yeah. Do I think we don't belong in the same league as Illinois and Wisconsin? No. I actually think Indiana, as a whole, is a better school than Illinois. Illinois' biggest thing going for it is its relatively close distance to Chicago combined with its past reputation. With all of the corrupt practices going on there, I fully expect it to drop below Indiana in the rankings in this spring's US News list.

Always lower than Wisconsin? Really? I didn't know Wisconsin was this big law powerhouse...

How do you know how much we dropped?

You've made the conclusory assertion that IU is a better school than Illinois in at least 3 threads now. But you never support it. Truthfully, you've not been a 1L at both schools, so it's impossible for you to make that claim with any type of sincerity.

I'm working off of what I remember from when I was in my 0L cycle. Which would put Indiana at about 15% for Big Law. Could not honestly tell you where I got that from, but it may be that poster that's hanging up in OCPD.

Google the 2005 nlj 250 placements. Wisconsin was above us then too. You don't need to be a big law powerhouse to place a little over 16% of your class in big law. On the other hand, you don't need to place that much to be considered a successful law school either.

I know we are currently tied in rankings. I also know that Illinois has had a year of bad marketing and media attention behind it whereas Indiana had one of the largest donations in the history of the school. I was making a prediction, but then you seem to dislike anything good being said about IUB or, apparently, even the city of Indianapolis, Bankhead.

Here's sincerity for you. I am extremely glad I'm going to IUB. I wouldn't switch it for Illinois, Wisconsin, or Wake Forest. (I certainly wouldn't switch it for OSU.)

Tell you what, let's take this to PM's and not clog up this thread with ridiculous internet arguments.

Spoonmanners wrote:

Mulliganstew wrote:I've had the exact opposite experiences with OCPD, Spoon. They've been very helpful in hooking me up with potential contacts.

You must have had Caroline, as she is the only person that has really come recommended out of the office. I didn't have her. I was given one contact, but it wasn't in the area I wanted to practice in. And it wasn't really what I wanted to do anyways. I have been disappointed with what I hoping to get out of OCPD. They have been nice, and have given me help, but nothing that has really helped me with a potential contact to get a job/internship. I've been doing my own leg work.

As a side note, Wisconsin has always had great employment numbers. At least for the past few years, their salaries and numbers have been great, but they turned me way off during their application process. Even if I hate them, I believe all their salary averages/medians/what-have-you are substantially higher than ours.

Well, to be fair, they haven't handed me a person hiring on a silver platter, but they've definitely given me contact info. That said, the guy they brought in at the end of last semester was the biggest jerk in the history of the legal practice.