Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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chicoalto0649
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby chicoalto0649 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:31 pm

kings84_wr wrote:
lhg587 wrote:as someone who is seriously considering IUB and is coming from out of state (CA), could someone give me an idea of some pros and cons about attending IUB?


As a Life long CA resident I can come back and post my own experience in a day or so, Im working on my writing sample that I need to get done by tomorrow, so im a bit time strapped now.



The vibe I am getting from this board is that your legal writing course is somewhat of a joke (no offense!)/ not taken too seriously by many people. Do you feel like you are learning something in terms of legal writing? I really want to go to a school with a strong LRW (do these even exist??) and kinda getting turned off by Indiana.....

Bankhead
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Bankhead » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:00 pm

Next year, in fact, LRW will be a graded course. So you will have to care about it.

We also have real instructors teaching the LRW (the quality varies though depending on who you have as an instructor). Many other schools simply have 3L TA's teach it.

Keep that in mind when you make your decision.

JayCole
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby JayCole » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:02 pm

Do you know of many 1L's that had admissions interviews last year? They requested an interview and I'm wondering whether it's good or bad.

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kings84_wr
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby kings84_wr » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:24 pm

I think if it was graded i would have tried much harder and im sure learned a lot more, though the thought of a curve in LRW Is kind of scary.

I think everyone is also just really edgy not having grades back yet. I feel like my Prof is pretty solid, she finished first in her class at Case Western and she is very smart. Just right now between needing a writing sample, and waiting for grades and starting the new semester, things are bit crazy for all of us.

and from what im hearing everyone in Daghe is kind of freaking out about her Low Pass threats, I feel bad for all you guys.

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danquayle
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby danquayle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:40 pm

No one likes LRW, and because it was pass/fail, people were the least concerned with it. But its definitely a lot of work, and you learn a massive amount. Perhaps more than in some classes. The class itself was well run. The primary reason people slacked on it was because it was pass/fail, and then they slacked to work on the graded classes.

I actually hated LRW because I thought it was the hardest of my 1L classes (as far as stress, difficult and work involved). I only really worried about most of my classes for 3-4 weeks. I worried about LRW all year round. Thank God it wasn't graded when I was there.

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danquayle
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby danquayle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:44 pm

danquayle wrote:No one likes LRW, and because it was pass/fail, people were the least concerned with it. But its definitely a lot of work, and you learn a massive amount. Perhaps more than in some classes. The class itself was well run. The primary reason people slacked on it was because it was pass/fail, and then they slacked to work on the graded classes.

I actually hated LRW because I thought it was the hardest of my 1L classes (as far as stress, difficult and work involved). I only really worried about most of my classes for 3-4 weeks. I worried about LRW all year round. Thank God it wasn't graded when I was there.


The way they ran it actually made effectively the 'gel' class. I thought it was the class that made the other ones start to make sense initially. Not to mention its the only class where you get ongoing feedback on your legal analysis.

Sorry to post twice about this, but I think it needs to be stressed...

Bankhead
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Bankhead » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:00 pm

JayCole wrote:Do you know of many 1L's that had admissions interviews last year? They requested an interview and I'm wondering whether it's good or bad.


It means you are borderline. Make sure to come across as very professional and be prepared to explain any weaknesses in your application.

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superflush
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby superflush » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:10 pm

Spoonmanners wrote:Edit: OK, to be fair, I know IU tends to give out big scholarships to URM's. IU just does not seem to be as big of a destination as law schools in major cities for URMs. I think Indiana is just not a big target school of many URM's.


It is kind of odd, but I feel like only the best of schools can lure URMs to places far from big cities.

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Spoonmanners
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Spoonmanners » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:11 pm

chicoalto0649 wrote:The vibe I am getting from this board is that your legal writing course is somewhat of a joke (no offense!)/ not taken too seriously by many people. Do you feel like you are learning something in terms of legal writing? I really want to go to a school with a strong LRW (do these even exist??) and kinda getting turned off by Indiana.....


I've heard better things about other LRW teachers than mine. Mine was certainly NOT a slack class. I most likely spent more time in LRW than two of my other classes combined. Most of that time was trying to figure out what to do. Our memo was a mixture of what two or three books tell you to do, with some changes by the professor, with no guide or idea. They want to make sure everyone does the memo themselves. That was then taken to the extreme, where they would tell you nothing about the memo.

If you want to go to a school with a strong LRW program, move down on the US News. I know Mercer has one of the best writing programs.

Sounds weird huh? Not Harvard, Yale, etc?

Law firms don't pay people 6 figures to do research and write memos. If you have any legitimate job, someone else will be doing most of the leg work. I heard the memo we wrote should take around 30 hours for a professional. You can imagine the costs getting really high, well into the thousands, and all that has been done is some research and writing. Most things that you would need a memo for, odds are, your firm has already done. Proper protocol would be to pull out a previously written memo and change the names. If not done, you could realistically get 90% of the research done, along with a general outline, in a few hours.

So, unless my understanding is completely wrong, some of the easier schools to get into place a large amount of their students into jobs through their legal writing. Think of it "Advanced Filing" or something close, and you can understand why some of the schools that are best at legal writing are who they are.

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superflush
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby superflush » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:11 pm

kings84_wr wrote:the guy Xeoh who used to post here last year, commuted everyday to UCLA from long beach, which during traffic can be an hour and half each way, and he did that every day and still was #1 in his class.


Wow, I would never want to commute that far in LA. Although it is doable.

Bankhead
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Bankhead » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:18 pm

"Law firms don't pay people 6 figures to do research and write memos."

Yes they do!!!

If you work in biglaw, this will literally be all you do (along with doc review) for the first 2-3 years of your career.

"If you have a legitimate job someone else will be doing most of the legwork"

Wrong. The partner that I job shadowed wrote a 29 page memo by himself because he did not trust the associates to do it. It was a very complex legal theory.

"The memo we wrote was supposed to take a professional 30 hours"

I was told around 8 hours (4 to research; 4 to write). Our prof said it was supposed to take us (as students) 30 hours or so because we are beginners.

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Spoonmanners
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Spoonmanners » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:31 pm

Bankhead wrote:"Law firms don't pay people 6 figures to do research and write memos."

Yes they do!!!

If you work in biglaw, this will literally be all you do (along with doc review) for the first 2-3 years of your career.

"If you have a legitimate job someone else will be doing most of the legwork"

Wrong. The partner that I job shadowed wrote a 29 page memo by himself because he did not trust the associates to do it. It was a very complex legal theory.

"The memo we wrote was supposed to take a professional 30 hours"

I was told around 8 hours (4 to research; 4 to write). Our prof said it was supposed to take us (as students) 30 hours or so because we are beginners.


I've heard otherwise (which is also the best argument ever). The 30 hours thing I heard from another student (my teacher tells us nothing). I could understand writing a memo yourself if there was nothing but very complex legal theory.

Hard to argue when I don't have first hand knowledge. I can just go by what I know, and my PGA, who said they have never heard of someone who got a job because of a high pass.

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danquayle
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby danquayle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:47 pm

All of my law firms friends certainly do their own research and write their own memos... if they're not writing them for their bosses.

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Spoonmanners
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Spoonmanners » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:44 pm

danquayle wrote:All of my law firms friends certainly do their own research and write their own memos... if they're not writing them for their bosses.


Another shot to my balls (and another reason I love this is anonymous), but just on question, where did they go to law school?

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Mulliganstew
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Mulliganstew » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:16 pm

Goodman told us the memo should take about 8 hours for a professional, yeah. I wouldn't say LRW is a slack class. It's certainly the most stressful. I think the stress is the reason why so many of us bag on it. It's most certainly an unfortunate necessity.

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danquayle
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby danquayle » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:44 am

Spoonmanners wrote:
danquayle wrote:All of my law firms friends certainly do their own research and write their own memos... if they're not writing them for their bosses.


Another shot to my balls (and another reason I love this is anonymous), but just on question, where did they go to law school?


Indiana, sir. :) Mostly...

But... I know at least one person from each Loyola Chicago, Wayne, MSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Harvard, Virginia, Wash U, Brooklyn, Case, Toledo... and a few others... But they all seem to have similar responses. It doesn't seem to matter that much size of law firm. The big difference seems to be in resources and logistical support.

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danquayle
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby danquayle » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:45 am

danquayle wrote:
Spoonmanners wrote:
danquayle wrote:All of my law firms friends certainly do their own research and write their own memos... if they're not writing them for their bosses.


Another shot to my balls (and another reason I love this is anonymous), but just on question, where did they go to law school?


Indiana, sir. :) Mostly...

But... I know at least one person from each Loyola Chicago, Wayne, MSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Harvard, Virginia, Wash U, Brooklyn, Case, Toledo... and a few others... But they all seem to have similar responses. It doesn't seem to matter that much size of law firm. The big difference seems to be in resources and logistical support.


And subject matter of course. I'm speaking as a recent law graduate. So these are also recent law graduates. I'm in a corporate setting myself.

EDIT: By the way spoon, do you know how OCI went this year? As in how many firms? The few 2011 friends I have there don't want to even talk about it. I know everyone saw a dip, but I was wondering if the rankings made any kind of a difference.

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Spoonmanners
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Spoonmanners » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:00 am

danquayle wrote:
danquayle wrote:
Spoonmanners wrote:
danquayle wrote:All of my law firms friends certainly do their own research and write their own memos... if they're not writing them for their bosses.


Another shot to my balls (and another reason I love this is anonymous), but just on question, where did they go to law school?


Indiana, sir. :) Mostly...

But... I know at least one person from each Loyola Chicago, Wayne, MSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Harvard, Virginia, Wash U, Brooklyn, Case, Toledo... and a few others... But they all seem to have similar responses. It doesn't seem to matter that much size of law firm. The big difference seems to be in resources and logistical support.


And subject matter of course. I'm speaking as a recent law graduate. So these are also recent law graduates. I'm in a corporate setting myself.

EDIT: By the way spoon, do you know how OCI went this year? As in how many firms? The few 2011 friends I have there don't want to even talk about it. I know everyone saw a dip, but I was wondering if the rankings made any kind of a difference.


OK, my balls really hurt, that was a spot on shot.

I'm not a 2011 guy (I have heard nothing encouraging from the OCI's from the 2011's). But I heard from a few 2010 people to just kill myself and get it over with. Plenty of 3L's need work. I think out Dean's "town hall meeting" (which was more like a solid shot to the balls) she said that only about 15% of 3L's had jobs. I had a 3L say they bumped into some 2009's at some job fairs. It seems bad. I came to IU to get placed into Chicago, and Chicago barely comes here anymore.

It's not all the schools fault, but I am keeping transferring to a top 10 in the realm of possibility. And not for their legal writing program. Even though I would love to get some legal writing help.

Bankhead
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Bankhead » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:28 am

OCI was a bloodbath. Only 3 Chicago firms came. The Chicago on location interview program was cancelled this year. Top 10% + LR folks were striking out.

EDIT: Well I guess Spoon covered it.

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superflush
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby superflush » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:39 am

Bankhead wrote:OCI was a bloodbath. Only 3 Chicago firms came. The Chicago on location interview program was cancelled this year. Top 10% + LR folks were striking out.

EDIT: Well I guess Spoon covered it.


Where did the top of the class get jobs?

Do you think it will recover by the time the 0L class has their OCI?

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Veritas
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Veritas » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:47 am

:shock: this is scary. I really don't want to get stuck there.

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superflush
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby superflush » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:48 am

Veritas wrote::shock: this is scary. I really don't want to get stuck there.


+1

Bankhead
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby Bankhead » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:27 am

superflush wrote:
Bankhead wrote:OCI was a bloodbath. Only 3 Chicago firms came. The Chicago on location interview program was cancelled this year. Top 10% + LR folks were striking out.

EDIT: Well I guess Spoon covered it.


Where did the top of the class get jobs?

Do you think it will recover by the time the 0L class has their OCI?


Indy firms. You need top 5-10% (magna) to get in with any Indy mid-law firms.

I'm upset that I'm not quite sure what you mean by "recover"...

Careful now.

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superflush
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby superflush » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:52 am

So, are you saying that for what I guess would be the class of 2011, nearly all of them will end up staying in Indiana?

jameschae
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington 1L's taking questions

Postby jameschae » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:51 am

Hi! Indiana is one of my top choices and I had two questions:

1. Are there many married law students?

2. Would bring my car help? (How is the parking situation?)

Also, I know this is silly, but my wife wants me to ask you guys,

Where do you buy furniture in Bloomington. (She says that there is no ikea in indiana)

Thank you




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