Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

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Verity
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby Verity » Thu May 10, 2012 5:52 pm

RMstratosphere wrote:
Verity wrote:
RMstratosphere wrote:At the end of 1L I was near the top of the class. I didn't get my job through OCI, and I'd rather not offer the city.


What does "near the top of the class" mean? Is the city one of NY/Chi/DC? Did you have some sort of connection? What was your job search strategy?


I don't want to come across as a jack-ass, but I'd rather answer by private message because this information would almost certainly compromise my anonymity.


That's cool, I'd love a PM. I just finished 1L, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't know you.

JamesChapman23
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby JamesChapman23 » Fri May 11, 2012 3:08 pm

The fact that people are doing OK in the top 5 or 10 percent of the class (although I know people that didn't) is hardly remarkable, even TTTTs can do that. The people at Louisville are probably getting "biglaw" in the top 5/10 of the class. I know folks at Pacific that got biglaw in that range.

The question is what happens to the vast majority of the class outside the top end? At other T25s/30s they might be OK, at Indiana they are totally fried. The 3L class literally had a 30 percent employment at graduation (which includes everything from firm jobs to small firms to non-law jobs).

People that are taking full schollies should just remember they aren't getting full rides to a real top tier school, they are getting a full ride to the employment equivalent of a Tier 2/3. Which is fine for some, but I think the knowledge would dissuade many people with other options.

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TommyK
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby TommyK » Fri May 11, 2012 3:18 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote:The fact that people are doing OK in the top 5 or 10 percent of the class (although I know people that didn't) is hardly remarkable, even TTTTs can do that. The people at Louisville are probably getting "biglaw" in the top 5/10 of the class. I know folks at Pacific that got biglaw in that range.

The question is what happens to the vast majority of the class outside the top end? At other T25s/30s they might be OK, at Indiana they are totally fried. The 3L class literally had a 30 percent employment at graduation (which includes everything from firm jobs to small firms to non-law jobs).


Where does the 30% come from? Is that an official stat or more of an estimate because 30% of the folks you knew had a gig lined up? Since it's almost impossible to tell if somebody is being genuine online, I am actually asking a legitimate question. Thanks in advance.

JamesChapman23
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby JamesChapman23 » Fri May 11, 2012 3:20 pm

I would out the professor/staff member/admin. It was first hand.

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Verity
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby Verity » Fri May 11, 2012 3:32 pm

TommyK wrote:
JamesChapman23 wrote:The fact that people are doing OK in the top 5 or 10 percent of the class (although I know people that didn't) is hardly remarkable, even TTTTs can do that. The people at Louisville are probably getting "biglaw" in the top 5/10 of the class. I know folks at Pacific that got biglaw in that range.

The question is what happens to the vast majority of the class outside the top end? At other T25s/30s they might be OK, at Indiana they are totally fried. The 3L class literally had a 30 percent employment at graduation (which includes everything from firm jobs to small firms to non-law jobs).


Where does the 30% come from? Is that an official stat or more of an estimate because 30% of the folks you knew had a gig lined up? Since it's almost impossible to tell if somebody is being genuine online, I am actually asking a legitimate question. Thanks in advance.


+1. If you're a disgruntled and unemployed 3L, that's frustrating; but unless you have some real data on this and aren't just offering up anecdotes, don't mislead people who might be interested in IU. I'm a 1L, and every 3L (and 2L) I talked to had a job lined up. Maybe I'm just hanging out with the top of the class (don't think so), but 30% seems way wrong.

It's true, IU isn't as strong as peer schools with employment. It doesn't have a strong market, nor does it have lay prestige. But your stat is way off compared to NALP data and OCPD's numbers. Not saying these two are not informed by biased stats, but 70% no job whatsoever? Nah...

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TommyK
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby TommyK » Fri May 11, 2012 4:00 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote:I would out the professor/staff member/admin. It was first hand.


Okay, so it's a professor or staff member or admin? Gosh, I mean, depedning on the source this might be worrisome, but you have to understand how I am naturally skeptical about an anonymous guy on an Internet forum saying that they talked to another anonymous person who works at IU in some capacity, but is unwilling to reveal if that source is faculty or staff or an administrator - and certainly is unable or unwilling to talk about how that number was determined. If it was an estimate based on a small sample within a class, or if it was the official number they're going to have to report to a governing body or usnwr...

Either way, good luck to you. I hope you find something soon.

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RMstratosphere
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby RMstratosphere » Sun May 13, 2012 10:48 pm

JC23 and I have disagreed in the past, but I'd like to weigh in to support his/her 30% figure.

Far fewer than 30% of the graduating students had Biglaw jobs at graduation. Nowhere near that number will have Biglaw jobs nine months from now. In fact, the number is closer to 10%, and I too have it from the lips of faculty on the admissions committee and OCPD that those figures are accurate. Similarly, I'm only aware of two Article III clerks in the graduating class.

The top students at IU can do very well. But, the vast majority of students do not have optimistic career prospects absent any incredible connections.

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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby TommyK » Sun May 13, 2012 11:13 pm

RMstratosphere wrote:JC23 and I have disagreed in the past, but I'd like to weigh in to support his/her 30% figure.

Far fewer than 30% of the graduating students had Biglaw jobs at graduation. Nowhere near that number will have Biglaw jobs nine months from now. In fact, the number is closer to 10%, and I too have it from the lips of faculty on the admissions committee and OCPD that those figures are accurate. Similarly, I'm only aware of two Article III clerks in the graduating class.

The top students at IU can do very well. But, the vast majority of students do not have optimistic career prospects absent any incredible connections.


RM, nobody was talking about biglaw. He/she said 30% employment at graduation. And all I was asking for was what the source was.

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jrthor10
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby jrthor10 » Sun May 13, 2012 11:18 pm

Employment prospects at IU-B suck. Even the few who get BigLaw are getting BigLaw in Indy at one of 3-4 firms. I don't know why anyone from outside the midwest would go here.

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RMstratosphere
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby RMstratosphere » Sun May 13, 2012 11:22 pm

TommyK wrote:
RMstratosphere wrote:JC23 and I have disagreed in the past, but I'd like to weigh in to support his/her 30% figure.

Far fewer than 30% of the graduating students had Biglaw jobs at graduation. Nowhere near that number will have Biglaw jobs nine months from now. In fact, the number is closer to 10%, and I too have it from the lips of faculty on the admissions committee and OCPD that those figures are accurate. Similarly, I'm only aware of two Article III clerks in the graduating class.

The top students at IU can do very well. But, the vast majority of students do not have optimistic career prospects absent any incredible connections.


RM, nobody was talking about biglaw. He/she said 30% employment at graduation. And all I was asking for was what the source was.


Apologies, we were talking past each other. Nevertheless, I don't think 30% employed (Biglaw or otherwise) is an inaccurate figure for the graduating class at graduation.

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RMstratosphere
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby RMstratosphere » Sun May 13, 2012 11:23 pm

jrthor10 wrote:Employment prospects at IU-B suck. Even the few who get BigLaw are getting BigLaw in Indy at one of 3-4 firms. I don't know why anyone from outside the midwest would go here.


To be fair, a few people land firm jobs in Chicago, the West Coast, NYC, and DC.

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TommyK
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby TommyK » Mon May 14, 2012 12:03 am

RMstratosphere wrote:
Apologies, we were talking past each other. Nevertheless, I don't think 30% employed (Biglaw or otherwise) is an inaccurate figure for the graduating class at graduation.


No worries. Nobody thinks IUB's employment stats are in line with T14, and most should be aware that in almost every measurable way they're below peer midwestern schools like OSU that are in larger natural markets. But 30% with employment at graduation? This would be a wild departure from previous years, assuming you put more stock in the statistics that the university reports to the ABA than an anonymous doood online quoting an anonymous source that works for the university.

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superflush
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby superflush » Mon May 14, 2012 12:41 am

RMstratosphere wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:Employment prospects at IU-B suck. Even the few who get BigLaw are getting BigLaw in Indy at one of 3-4 firms. I don't know why anyone from outside the midwest would go here.


To be fair, a few people land firm jobs in Chicago, the West Coast, NYC, and DC.


Yes. It actually seems like there are more people with biglaw jobs in Chicago than Indy. (But that could just be who I talk to). And there are definitely people in NYC, DC, Dallas, and CA with biglaw jobs or market-rate IP firms.

TommyK wrote:This would be a wild departure from previous years, assuming you put more stock in the statistics that the university reports to the ABA than an anonymous doood online quoting an anonymous source that works for the university.


I am pretty sure that most of the employment data is taken 9 months out from graduation. It's not unusual for people to get their jobs after graduation.

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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby learnallthelawz » Mon May 14, 2012 12:51 am

I certainly appreciate your skepticism and don't want to overstate my knowledge. But, I stand by the ~30% employed at graduation number. I agree that number seems shocking, given that ~80% of c/o 2009 were employed at graduation, but data is not available for 2010 or 2011.

TommyK wrote:
RMstratosphere wrote:
Apologies, we were talking past each other. Nevertheless, I don't think 30% employed (Biglaw or otherwise) is an inaccurate figure for the graduating class at graduation.


No worries. Nobody thinks IUB's employment stats are in line with T14, and most should be aware that in almost every measurable way they're below peer midwestern schools like OSU that are in larger natural markets. But 30% with employment at graduation? This would be a wild departure from previous years, assuming you put more stock in the statistics that the university reports to the ABA than an anonymous doood online quoting an anonymous source that works for the university.

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TommyK
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby TommyK » Mon May 14, 2012 8:02 am

superflush wrote:
I am pretty sure that most of the employment data is taken 9 months out from graduation. It's not unusual for people to get their jobs after graduation.


It's taken at two different times, super. About 90 percent of the people who were employed at 9 months out were also employed at graduation. (~80% or so)

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TommyK
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby TommyK » Mon May 14, 2012 8:11 am

learnallthelawz wrote:I certainly appreciate your skepticism and don't want to overstate my knowledge. But, I stand by the ~30% employed at graduation number. I agree that number seems shocking, given that ~80% of c/o 2009 were employed at graduation, but data is not available for 2010 or 2011.


You created an alt for this?

2010 data is available. It's consistent with the ~80% stat. I do not question whether you think it's true; I take it on your authority that you believe what you heard is accurate. I also am inclined to believe whoever you heard it from assumes that it's accurate too. But that's why I wanted to know how you heard it and from what source and how the stat was gathered. But no worries. I'm sure the information will eventually get released.

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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby K Rock » Mon May 14, 2012 11:40 am

Do most current students regret their decision to attend IUB?

As someone from Chicago, am I making a mistake attending and anticipating around 70k in total debt?

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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby iowalum » Wed May 16, 2012 5:18 pm

TommyK wrote:
learnallthelawz wrote:I certainly appreciate your skepticism and don't want to overstate my knowledge. But, I stand by the ~30% employed at graduation number. I agree that number seems shocking, given that ~80% of c/o 2009 were employed at graduation, but data is not available for 2010 or 2011.


You created an alt for this?

2010 data is available. It's consistent with the ~80% stat. I do not question whether you think it's true; I take it on your authority that you believe what you heard is accurate. I also am inclined to believe whoever you heard it from assumes that it's accurate too. But that's why I wanted to know how you heard it and from what source and how the stat was gathered. But no worries. I'm sure the information will eventually get released.


I know I haven't started here yet, but just from talking to (many) students/alumni I can't imagine this is true. 30% employed in the job they wanted? Maybe. But 30% employed period? I'm doubtful. This would imply that around 1 in 3 of the students/alum I've spoken to over the last year and a half would be unemployed, and that just doesn't seem to be the case.

I get that IUB's employment stats aren't great, but speculating is not helpful for anyone.

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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby superflush » Thu May 17, 2012 6:56 am

K Rock wrote:As someone from Chicago, am I making a mistake attending and anticipating around 70k in total debt?


What are your goals? And, what are your options?

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Verity
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby Verity » Sat May 19, 2012 12:44 am

I always see that lectures, especially in the moot court room, are being recorded. Anyone know where we can view them? There's a few I missed this year and wanted to watch.

K Rock
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby K Rock » Sun May 20, 2012 11:01 am

superflush wrote:
K Rock wrote:As someone from Chicago, am I making a mistake attending and anticipating around 70k in total debt?


What are your goals? And, what are your options?


Would prefer to work in Chicago, although I would be OKAY working in Indy. I just want a job that would allow me to pay back my debt in 10 years. And IUB is my only option at this point.

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superflush
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby superflush » Sun May 20, 2012 1:23 pm

K Rock wrote:
superflush wrote:
K Rock wrote:As someone from Chicago, am I making a mistake attending and anticipating around 70k in total debt?


What are your goals? And, what are your options?


Would prefer to work in Chicago, although I would be OKAY working in Indy. I just want a job that would allow me to pay back my debt in 10 years. And IUB is my only option at this point.


So far, everything sounds okay.

What are your connections in Chicago? If you are at the top of the class, connections/ties won't be as big of a deal. After that, they are very important.

If you manage your money properly, you should be fine (especially if you live in reasonable costing cities such as Chicago or Indy.

What is your next best option?

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aquasalad
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby aquasalad » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:20 am

This thread is depressing.

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TommyK
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby TommyK » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:51 am

So, what can I expect for Orientation?

c-monster
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby c-monster » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:10 am

TommyK wrote:So, what can I expect for Orientation?


Boredom.




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