Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions Forum

[kings84_wr]

For what its worth, there was some lengthy discussion about Heidt and Gjerdy in the thread last year. I recommend Heidt. He has a very fair grading system, helps learn the law, and helps figure out law school.

But his class is stressful and a lot of work.

[Spoonmanners]

For what its worth, there was some lengthy discussion about Heidt and Gjerdy in the thread last year. I recommend Heidt. He has a very fair grading system, helps learn the law, and helps figure out law school.

But his class is stressful and a lot of work.

I'd like to point out Donny G does similar things, as far as how to take a law school test, how to brief a case, etc., without the stress of Heidt. I did well in Gjerdy's class, so I don't know how fair his grading was... but I thought he did a lot very well.

And he does look kind of like the guy from the paper chase:


Most that I talk to seem to find Donny G much less divisive. Take it for what it is worth.

[agentcom]

On the torts question:

I did not like Gjerd. I thought he was very gunner-friendly. Never seemed to criticize or correct any of the people who wanted to waste time in the class even when they were clearly wrong. While the overall class was structured well in terms of topical, ordered coverage of the material, the individual classes were filled with digressions about men's fashion and other unimportant minutiae. He's that type of older gentleman that turns on the charm for the attractive ladies. Not in a creepy way and it didn't affect me because I don't fall into that category, but might be worthy of note to some. I've heard allegations of favoritism toward girls, but considering the anonymity of exams, I don't find much basis to these charges. If you went to the mock class during SLD, you can expect pretty much what you saw there for the whole semester. I remember writing in my notes during my visit that I "might want to avoid this professor." Unfortunately, he was the only option for summer start, so I took him anyway. And I was not particularly surprised that I didn't like him.

Others really liked him, though there seems to be a direct correlation between liking him and the grade that people got in the course. Although, I'd say that holds true for both ends of the curve. That also holds true, to a lesser extent, for other professors, IMO.

Only met Heidt once. Seems like a nice guy, if odd. Widely varying opinions of him, too. I don't know if I share the sentiments that Heidt is more divisive than Gjerdy though.

As for Brown: Is he even teaching here anymore? From what I've heard, his reviews were more uniformly negative than the other two professors.

Bottom line: If I was making the choice again, I'd go with Heidt. If I was making the choice without my personal experience with Gjerdy (based, e.g., on what I'd read in this forum), I'd flip a coin between G and H, or pick a class with some people that I know from the forum or elsewhere and just make the best of it.

[agentcom]

On other topics:

I'm looking for a roommate. If you or anyone you know is looking for a place to stay, PM me for more info.

[RooksWS6]

Hi all,

I have a couple questions regarding buying books.

Casebooks:
Do you usually buy new or used?
Where do you find the best prices?
Also, I remember reading somewhere that IU has a rental program. Is this correct and, if so, is it a good option?

Commerical Outlines:
Did you buy commercial outlines for all of your first year classes? Is there a specific one (i.e. Gilbert, Emanuel, etc.) that you prefer?

Thanks!

[superflush]

Do you usually buy new or used?
Where do you find the best prices?

I get them on Amazon. It is usually much cheaper than the IMU bookstore or TIS.
Often the prices will be something like $75 used on Amazon, $117 new on Amazon, $150 at TIS, $155 at IMU.
So, I'll go used for used on Amazon (unless the price of new on Amazon isn't much more)
Last year, they only gave the 1Ls 6 days before the start of classes to get our schedules for the fall, so anything on Amazon had to ship with Amazon Prime.

Commerical Outlines:
Did you buy commercial outlines for all of your first year classes? Is there a specific one (i.e. Gilbert, Emanuel, etc.) that you prefer?

Depends on the course and the prof.

[Spoonmanners]

Hi all,

I have a couple questions regarding buying books.

Casebooks:
Do you usually buy new or used?
Where do you find the best prices?
Also, I remember reading somewhere that IU has a rental program. Is this correct and, if so, is it a good option?

Commerical Outlines:
Did you buy commercial outlines for all of your first year classes? Is there a specific one (i.e. Gilbert, Emanuel, etc.) that you prefer?

Thanks!

I usually grab used casebooks off of Amazon. If you can get the previous version, you can get the 5ish updated cases on Lexis/Westlaw, I would do it as they are usually about $10 instead of $150. It adds up pretty quick, but you will occasionally need the new textbook.

I've been a big fan of the Gilbert books. I don't think I've ever gotten through much of an E&E... just never found them that helpful, or had the time to go through the entire E&E. Felt Gilbert was better at breaking down different legal concepts. You shouldn't really need to read an entire supplement (300-500 pages) along with your normal course load. It will be hard to find time for an extra 1,500 or so pages of reading material in an already hectic schedule. Look for something where you can read 10-15 pages on a difficult legal concept, and I think Gilbert does that well with visuals/graphs/etc.

Might be the cheap-ass in me, but grab the older version of the supplements as well. Similar to text books, they are significantly cheaper and have minimal differences.

[Spoonmanners]

On the torts question:

I've heard allegations of favoritism toward girls, but considering the anonymity of exams, I don't find much basis to these charges. If you went to the mock class during SLD, you can expect pretty much what you saw there for the whole semester.

I've heard from a few different people allegations of Heidt having issues with certain types of people as well. Not sure how true it is, but I believe he made class uncomfortable for a number of different people. Never talked to him before, so I don't know for sure, but I believe there are some pretty valid reasons why Heidt isn't judging moot court anymore.

[agentcom]

Hi all,

I have a couple questions regarding buying books.

Casebooks:
Do you usually buy new or used?
Where do you find the best prices?
Also, I remember reading somewhere that IU has a rental program. Is this correct and, if so, is it a good option?

Commerical Outlines:
Did you buy commercial outlines for all of your first year classes? Is there a specific one (i.e. Gilbert, Emanuel, etc.) that you prefer?

Thanks!

I like to think that I'm pretty frugal, but I've never bought an outdated casebook. Seems like more trouble than it's worth to try to figure out right page numbers and which cases/material is missing. I use the online price comparison sites and just buy the cheapest option. However, I will ALWAYS buy a used book if it's available.

I also look for books that already have highlighting and underlining, as they are cheaper, and they help me help me cut down on how much reading I have to do when I'm in a hurry.

I have not used the rental program. I have found the casebooks to be of great help when I'm starting research for a client (in the clinics). I've run across questions from Prop, Civ Pro, and Crim Law that the casebooks gave me a great starting point for research.

As far as the study supplements go, I've passed on the usual E&Es and Gilberts. I never found them to be of much help. I think that the most underrated helpful study tool is the Hornbook. It really lays out the law in black and white, but I haven't heard of many people using them. I think they're actually more valuable than the casebooks, except you can't bring them into finals (as with all commercial materials). I think I've bought one for just about every class I've been in.

HTH

[RooksWS6]

Thank you all for the responses, very helpful! This thread has been a lifesaver so far. Looking forward to hopefully meeting some of you in person in the coming months.

[kehoema2]

Hey, sorry I’m withdrawing from IU-B. I already signed a lease, and trying to release my lease, so if you’re looking for a great place to live please contact me.

Rent: $330 a month with heat included
Address: 320 E. University Street (4/5 blocks from the law school building)

2 bedrooms, shared bathroom. My roommate is already on the lease.

If you have any questions, please PM me.

[thmgoodw]

I'm just amazed that grades are already out. I have all my grades in and have had them for a couple weeks now. Definitely the fastest turn around time I've seen at IU. Anyone who's been following this thread for a while (or who's been a student for a while) knows that the delay in grade reporting is a frequent topic of complaint. Am I an exception or does everyone else have their grades already, too?

Not too shabby at all.

When I was at IU, I had the misfortune of having Geyh's wife teach Contracts. Geyh might have been my favorite teacher, but his wife was just not cut out to teach. We always thought they got her as part of a package deal when they lured in Geyh Anyways, we didn't get our grades until sometime in mid/late July for our 5 credit Contracts course from her. Not only did it obviously p*ss off a lot of people, for those considering transferring after 1L it caused some serious timing issues.

For posterity's sake:

Class of 2013
(242 students)

3.88 -Top- 1%
3.82 -- 2%
3.78 -- 3%
3.73 -- 5%
3.64 -- 10%
3.62 -- 15%
3.53 -- 20%
3.50 -- 25%
3.46 -- 30%
3.44 -- 33%
3.40 -- 40%
3.32 -- 50%

Holy grade inflation batman. Our breakdown from back in the day looked like:

3.70 1%
3.50 10%
3.10 50%

For 1st year classes, the median was more like a 3.00, and we learned the hard way that it only takes one average grade of "B" to really pull down an otherwise high GPA.

Of course, to keep up with the Joneses you gotta do what you gotta do. I remember summering with someone from Northwestern and I had to lift my lower jaw off the floor when he said their median was 3.3/3.4.

I suggest Gerdy unless you have a desire to punish yourself or become a professor.
I didn't like Heidt's class, but I will admit (and this is painful for to admit) it was one of the more useful classes during 1L.
My main objection is that 1L Fall is tough enough. There's no reason to make it tougher.

See, I'd say taking Heidt is worth it. It might be stressful for some people, but I really think it is worth it.

Agree 100%. It made me a better student and better analyzer than any other class I had. Of course, Heidt's class it the only class I ever intentionally skipped when I hadn't prepared b/c I was scared to death he would call on me and I would look like an absolute fool.

After the class was over, it also seemed like Heidt's grades were more "fair", or at least more representative of how those students faired overall in law school. There were people who got A's in G's class that I would bet my car never got another A in lawschool. On the other hand, of the three students who got A's in Heidt's classes, two finished in the top few percent of the class and the third transferred to Yale Law after the first year (note: he had been waitlisted at Yale before,and had something like a 174 LSAT, so I wouldn't consider transferring to Yale as the norm).

On the whole open-book versus closed-book debate, I would take closed book any day of the week. I much preferred the closed-book exams as I felt like they were generally more fair, and sometimes an open book (whether outline, or more) once in awhile threw in something just totally out there.

As for outlines, my general strategy was to create one master outline for a given class. It wasn't actually an outline, as it literally would have everything that could be on the exam (pulled from the casebook, class notes, commercial outlines, etc.). This could be between 50 pages, up to 140 or so for Wills & Trusts. Then, I condensed that down to a ~20 page outline. Finally, I would usually condense that down to maybe a 2 page short outline of absolutely critical things I needed to have absolutely memorized. It wasn't the outline itself that was important, it was the process of putting pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard), and condensing things, and figuring out what is most important and what isn't. It might not serve everyone, but it worked well for me.

[Iapyx]

I know the job prospects aren't great, but are they even decent. It looks like I might be able to get a full/near full scholarship here. I have no desire to earn six figures big law. Having a balanced lifestyle is more important to me. Furthermore I am looking to stay in Indiana, preferably rural/southern (but I could commute to Indy if needed) Thanks in advance.

[kings84_wr]

On the torts question:

I've heard allegations of favoritism toward girls, but considering the anonymity of exams, I don't find much basis to these charges. If you went to the mock class during SLD, you can expect pretty much what you saw there for the whole semester.

I've heard from a few different people allegations of Heidt having issues with certain types of people as well. Not sure how true it is, but I believe he made class uncomfortable for a number of different people. Never talked to him before, so I don't know for sure, but I believe there are some pretty valid reasons why Heidt isn't judging moot court anymore.

Heidt is very very passionately against affirmative action. He actually used to do something with admissions but quit/was removed because of it. I think a lot of the criticism comes from that stance.

[kings84_wr]

I know the job prospects aren't great, but are they even decent. It looks like I might be able to get a full/near full scholarship here. I have no desire to earn six figures big law. Having a balanced lifestyle is more important to me. Furthermore I am looking to stay in Indiana, preferably rural/southern (but I could commute to Indy if needed) Thanks in advance.

Just my opinion, but if you want to stay in Indiana, there is nothing better then a full ride at IU.


There is a lot of talk about job prospects throughout the thread. (we really should come up with some type of index or something since this thread is now 2 years old haha).

[Spoonmanners]

On the torts question:

I've heard allegations of favoritism toward girls, but considering the anonymity of exams, I don't find much basis to these charges. If you went to the mock class during SLD, you can expect pretty much what you saw there for the whole semester.

I've heard from a few different people allegations of Heidt having issues with certain types of people as well. Not sure how true it is, but I believe he made class uncomfortable for a number of different people. Never talked to him before, so I don't know for sure, but I believe there are some pretty valid reasons why Heidt isn't judging moot court anymore.

Heidt is very very passionately against affirmative action. He actually used to do something with admissions but quit/was removed because of it. I think a lot of the criticism comes from that stance.

I've heard not only the affirmative action thing that comes out in class, but that he is why warnings are given in the moot court competition (which he is no longer a part of). Not sure how true everything is, but I've certainly heard enough to not want to take any of his classes.

[Spoonmanners]

I know the job prospects aren't great, but are they even decent. It looks like I might be able to get a full/near full scholarship here. I have no desire to earn six figures big law. Having a balanced lifestyle is more important to me. Furthermore I am looking to stay in Indiana, preferably rural/southern (but I could commute to Indy if needed) Thanks in advance.

They are at least decent. A number of the 2012 class have managed big law jobs, and a good percent have gotten the midrange internships you would expect. If you plan to stay in Indiana, IU is the place to go. I have heard the similarly ranked law schools are having the same employment problems, so another is not necessarily better than the other (depending on how far up you can manage).

[Iapyx]

Thanks. I am appreciative of any insight anyone has to offer. I am actually graduating from IU-B with a BS in Biotechnology. I was intending on applying to medical school, but have recently stumbled across the field of patent law (which I believe is synonymous with intellectual property). Is this field doing any better than the other fields in Indiana (in terms of employment, etc) Is it extremely competitive (will I have to be top in the class to get internships/jobs) and what exactly does an IP lawyer do on a day to day basis. I apologize if these questions are basic, but I have little previous experience with law. Thanks in advance.


(Edit: If anyone has insight on environmental law(another field in which a bio degree would benefit) in Indiana as well, I would be appreciative)

[thmgoodw]

I can't comment on the pure IP law angle, but the biotech degree would also be quite useful in the representation of life science/pharma companies, whether your role is corporate law, litigation, regulatory, etc. It is one of those things that you don't *need* a related undergrad degree, but it no doubt can help quite a bit. I was a corporate lawyer representing pharma/life science companies and I always felt like not having a related science degree was an extra hurdle I had to overcome when interviewing. It can be overcome, but it is definitely easier with it.

Now, keep in mind that most pharma/life science work is done on the two coasts (New Jerseyregion, where I was, and California). But, Eli Lilly is located in Indy and they are a great company and have great ties within Indiana and IU (Lilly Endowment gave huge gobs of $$ to IU's law and business schools). Abbott is also in the Chicago suburbs. Cook Medical, a medical device company, is headquartered in Bloomington.

I believe in recent years Maurer has started adding a class or two devoted to life science related matters, and I would guess that some of the work that goes through the Entrepreneurship Clinic is life science-related as well, but i'm sure current students can confirm/deny that.

Cheers,

Thanks. I am appreciative of any insight anyone has to offer. I am actually graduating from IU-B with a BS in Biotechnology. I was intending on applying to medical school, but have recently stumbled across the field of patent law (which I believe is synonymous with intellectual property). Is this field doing any better than the other fields in Indiana (in terms of employment, etc) Is it extremely competitive (will I have to be top in the class to get internships/jobs) and what exactly does an IP lawyer do on a day to day basis. I apologize if these questions are basic, but I have little previous experience with law. Thanks in advance.


(Edit: If anyone has insight on environmental law(another field in which a bio degree would benefit) in Indiana as well, I would be appreciative)

[agentcom]

Thanks. I am appreciative of any insight anyone has to offer. I am actually graduating from IU-B with a BS in Biotechnology. I was intending on applying to medical school, but have recently stumbled across the field of patent law (which I believe is synonymous with intellectual property). Is this field doing any better than the other fields in Indiana (in terms of employment, etc) Is it extremely competitive (will I have to be top in the class to get internships/jobs) and what exactly does an IP lawyer do on a day to day basis. I apologize if these questions are basic, but I have little previous experience with law. Thanks in advance.


(Edit: If anyone has insight on environmental law(another field in which a bio degree would benefit) in Indiana as well, I would be appreciative)

I am familiar with and very approving of the IP and environmental law programs at IU. I have taken quite a few classes in both areas and feel that they have been very good. I have also heard good things comparative to other law schools in both areas. If you really want to hit environmental science issues, you could also get an MSDS from SPEA with only a year's extra commitment. As a current student, I can't speak to what happens after IU, though (employment prospects, day-to-day tasks, etc.).

[c-monster]

On the torts question:

I've heard allegations of favoritism toward girls, but considering the anonymity of exams, I don't find much basis to these charges. If you went to the mock class during SLD, you can expect pretty much what you saw there for the whole semester.

I've heard from a few different people allegations of Heidt having issues with certain types of people as well. Not sure how true it is, but I believe he made class uncomfortable for a number of different people. Never talked to him before, so I don't know for sure, but I believe there are some pretty valid reasons why Heidt isn't judging moot court anymore.

Heidt is very very passionately against affirmative action. He actually used to do something with admissions but quit/was removed because of it. I think a lot of the criticism comes from that stance.

I've heard not only the affirmative action thing that comes out in class, but that he is why warnings are given in the moot court competition (which he is no longer a part of). Not sure how true everything is, but I've certainly heard enough to not want to take any of his classes.

What type of warnings are given in moot court?

[Iapyx]

Thanks. I am appreciative of any insight anyone has to offer. I am actually graduating from IU-B with a BS in Biotechnology. I was intending on applying to medical school, but have recently stumbled across the field of patent law (which I believe is synonymous with intellectual property). Is this field doing any better than the other fields in Indiana (in terms of employment, etc) Is it extremely competitive (will I have to be top in the class to get internships/jobs) and what exactly does an IP lawyer do on a day to day basis. I apologize if these questions are basic, but I have little previous experience with law. Thanks in advance.


(Edit: If anyone has insight on environmental law(another field in which a bio degree would benefit) in Indiana as well, I would be appreciative)

I am familiar with and very approving of the IP and environmental law programs at IU. I have taken quite a few classes in both areas and feel that they have been very good. I have also heard good things comparative to other law schools in both areas. If you really want to hit environmental science issues, you could also get an MSDS from SPEA with only a year's extra commitment. As a current student, I can't speak to what happens after IU, though (employment prospects, day-to-day tasks, etc.).

Thanks agentcom. If anyone has any more insight into that last part I would really appreciate it.

[tlabrum3]

Haven't gotten anything from the law school in some time. I think that email about financial aid was the last (besides those newsletters). Is there some sort of packet we're supposed to have received?

[tlabrum3]

Haven't gotten anything from the law school in some time. I think that email about financial aid was the last (besides those newsletters). Is there some sort of packet we're supposed to have received?

Just realized that I posted this in the wrong forum, but I guess you guys would know the answer to this too.

[RooksWS6]

Ok, just heard about this today...

What exactly is tortzilla? Should I use it? And, if so, where can I get it?

Thanks all!