Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
RooksWS6
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Laptop

Postby RooksWS6 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:33 pm

First of all, thank you for the thread. I have been following for awhile and it has been helpful on several occasions.

Now to my question, I recently decided to accept IU's very generous offer :D and will be starting either in July or August. Still kicking around the idea of Summer Start... I definitely will need to upgrade my laptop and was hoping for some suggestions from current students.

I searched the thread but didn't find much. I apologize in advance if I'm re-asking. :)

Thanks in advance!

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stlisforlovers
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby stlisforlovers » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:35 pm

Is the law school class tight?
I am pretty torn between BU and IU. BU seems to have a lot of events for the law schools kids, like a booze cruise, trivia nights, etc.
Do things like this happen at IU? I know that social events shouldn't be a priority while picking a law school, but I went to a commuter college and sorta missed out on the whole experience.

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superflush
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Re: Laptop

Postby superflush » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:43 pm

RooksWS6 wrote:Now to my question, I recently decided to accept IU's very generous offer :D and will be starting either in July or August. Still kicking around the idea of Summer Start... I definitely will need to upgrade my laptop and was hoping for some suggestions from current students.


Regular Budget: Obviously wait for the update, but 15-inch MacBook Pro, Core i7, Antiglare Display

Lower Budget: 13-inch MacBook Air, up it to 4gb of RAM

Also, I hope the internet isn't too important to you.

RooksWS6
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Re: Laptop

Postby RooksWS6 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:56 pm

superflush wrote:Also, I hope the internet isn't too important to you.


Thanks for the response. ^^^ And... Huh???

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superflush
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Re: Laptop

Postby superflush » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:19 pm

RooksWS6 wrote:
superflush wrote:Also, I hope the internet isn't too important to you.


Thanks for the response. ^^^ And... Huh???


The internet doesn't work properly here.

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stlisforlovers
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby stlisforlovers » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:40 pm

Can you eloborate?

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LeDique
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Re: Laptop

Postby LeDique » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:54 pm

superflush wrote:
RooksWS6 wrote:
superflush wrote:Also, I hope the internet isn't too important to you.


Thanks for the response. ^^^ And... Huh???


The internet doesn't work properly here.


I was just really starting to consider IU...

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superflush
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby superflush » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:23 am

stlisforlovers wrote:Can you eloborate?


Problems include: the internet not working randomly, the internet not working during class-wide events, and extremely slow speeds (such as 300k down).

It works fine in every other building on campus.

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kings84_wr
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:20 am

Is there a law school with proper working internet? haha

UCLA is worse then IU

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stlisforlovers
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby stlisforlovers » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:07 pm

Do you guys enjoy going to IU? Do you regret your decision?
Sometimes I don't get a real happy vibe from this thread.
And thanks for answering questions.
Last edited by stlisforlovers on Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kings84_wr
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:34 pm

I actually thought IU was really "tight". The smaller class size means you basically see everyone in the school. There are lots of different events both official and unofficial. Bloomington itself has the college town type atmosphere that makes the school have a certain vibe. In comparison I've found UCLA to be a lot less social and the larger size makes it much different socially.

I think some of it too is just midwestern culture in comparison to the coasts, but I felt people were a little bit more down to earth in and out of class. There wasn't the same snobby academic type attitude that I've found pretty common at UCLA.

I think if you are interested in a college type atmosphere IU will not be lacking.

I think if you are worried about the vibe from the thread a lot of it is related to employment. I think most people really like the school, even those of us that left. and really the employment prospects are just a factor of the economy at every school. I think most people in this thread would praise IU in general, we are just pretty open and honest about employment stats and placement.

If you are interested in seeing the social life at IU, you should visit.

As far as regretting, I'm a transfer so i have a strange perspective, but I do not regret choosing IU. I ended up leaving but that was simply to get back to CA.

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danquayle
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Re: Laptop

Postby danquayle » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:30 pm

RooksWS6 wrote:First of all, thank you for the thread. I have been following for awhile and it has been helpful on several occasions.

Now to my question, I recently decided to accept IU's very generous offer :D and will be starting either in July or August. Still kicking around the idea of Summer Start... I definitely will need to upgrade my laptop and was hoping for some suggestions from current students.

I searched the thread but didn't find much. I apologize in advance if I'm re-asking. :)

Thanks in advance!


The only benefit of doing Summer Start seems to be that you can be smarmy about how experienced you are during the first semester of law school. You notice a lot of the summer starters fall quiet around the time Summer grades are released. ;)

Honestly, I don't see how its worth the additional costs. Law school isn't that crazy or different than undergrad that you need to psyche yourself up for an entire summer. If you think you do, you'll just end up burning yourself out. There's a certain fervent energy starting law school gives you, and I know for me it was all but expended by the end of 1L. If I had done the summer start, I'd have been treading water by second semester finals...

The only benefit I can see if if you're a non-traditional applicant and you're rusty on the whole college thing. It might be useful then just to get yourself acclimated to studying and living as a student again. But it's not like you'll significantly reduce your work load during the rest of law school, and its not like having one class is going to prepare you for the real grind of 1L year. And I guess if you care for such things, the summer starters seemed to have developed a strong bond amongst themselves by the time the rest of us rolled in.

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Verity
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Re: Laptop

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:37 pm

danquayle wrote:
RooksWS6 wrote:First of all, thank you for the thread. I have been following for awhile and it has been helpful on several occasions.

Now to my question, I recently decided to accept IU's very generous offer :D and will be starting either in July or August. Still kicking around the idea of Summer Start... I definitely will need to upgrade my laptop and was hoping for some suggestions from current students.

I searched the thread but didn't find much. I apologize in advance if I'm re-asking. :)

Thanks in advance!


The only benefit of doing Summer Start seems to be that you can be smarmy about how experienced you are during the first semester of law school. You notice a lot of the summer starters fall quiet around the time Summer grades are released. ;)

Honestly, I don't see how its worth the additional costs. Law school isn't that crazy or different than undergrad that you need to psyche yourself up for an entire summer. If you think you do, you'll just end up burning yourself out. There's a certain fervent energy starting law school gives you, and I know for me it was all but expended by the end of 1L. If I had done the summer start, I'd have been treading water by second semester finals...

The only benefit I can see if if you're a non-traditional applicant and you're rusty on the whole college thing. It might be useful then just to get yourself acclimated to studying and living as a student again. But it's not like you'll significantly reduce your work load during the rest of law school, and its not like having one class is going to prepare you for the real grind of 1L year. And I guess if you care for such things, the summer starters seemed to have developed a strong bond amongst themselves by the time the rest of us rolled in.



Yeah, but at least it will get you acclimated to the way classes and studying go at LS. You'll also learn about how to succeed on an LS written exam format, and it's better I guess to start off with one class than than to mess up a whole semester's grades.

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danquayle
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Re: Laptop

Postby danquayle » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:02 pm

Verity wrote:
danquayle wrote:
RooksWS6 wrote:First of all, thank you for the thread. I have been following for awhile and it has been helpful on several occasions.

Now to my question, I recently decided to accept IU's very generous offer :D and will be starting either in July or August. Still kicking around the idea of Summer Start... I definitely will need to upgrade my laptop and was hoping for some suggestions from current students.

I searched the thread but didn't find much. I apologize in advance if I'm re-asking. :)

Thanks in advance!


The only benefit of doing Summer Start seems to be that you can be smarmy about how experienced you are during the first semester of law school. You notice a lot of the summer starters fall quiet around the time Summer grades are released. ;)

Honestly, I don't see how its worth the additional costs. Law school isn't that crazy or different than undergrad that you need to psyche yourself up for an entire summer. If you think you do, you'll just end up burning yourself out. There's a certain fervent energy starting law school gives you, and I know for me it was all but expended by the end of 1L. If I had done the summer start, I'd have been treading water by second semester finals...

The only benefit I can see if if you're a non-traditional applicant and you're rusty on the whole college thing. It might be useful then just to get yourself acclimated to studying and living as a student again. But it's not like you'll significantly reduce your work load during the rest of law school, and its not like having one class is going to prepare you for the real grind of 1L year. And I guess if you care for such things, the summer starters seemed to have developed a strong bond amongst themselves by the time the rest of us rolled in.



Yeah, but at least it will get you acclimated to the way classes and studying go at LS. You'll also learn about how to succeed on an LS written exam format, and it's better I guess to start off with one class than than to mess up a whole semester's grades.


I just don't buy that law school is so vastly different than undergrad. Yeah, its more engrossing, but you're still studying. It's not a "different kind" of studying. And it will do nothing towards helping to learn how to dope with the time commitments and varied requirements. I really, really question the value of one class in "acclimating you to law school."

And professors vary so drastically in grading, you'd hurt yourself more trying to find a "right" way to answer. The key to success in law school is just like any other class, or life even. Just know what the professor wants, and give it to him. Gjerdingen essentially wanted a memory dump wherein the A star needs 20 pages of typed material, whereas someone like Shreve wants a tight concise answer done in a page. There's no one answer.

gatorhoosier
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby gatorhoosier » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:09 pm

I don't regret my decision to attend IU. Law school is a grind and far more difficult than undergrad or grad and probably most real jobs. It leads to a lot of complaining, but that's how many people deal with stress. I wish I made it to a few more basketball games, but that's about it. Oh, and live close to campus. The bus ride is a huge waste of time and time is what you won't have in the first semester.

I didn't do summer start, but if I had it over again I would. I haven't been a student for several years, so that's part of it. Plus, I tend not to adjust to new things well. If you are like me, you should consider it. I think getting one law school exam under your belt before preparing for 4 in fall is a advantage.

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stlisforlovers
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby stlisforlovers » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:34 pm

Kings and gatorhoosier, thanks for answering my question. I'm visiting the first week of March, but it seems like a good idea to get an honest answer from students. I appreciate your thoughts!

agentcom
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby agentcom » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:40 pm

I don't regret attending IU at all. Law school is a great place for the self-selecting group that chooses to attend, and the IU adds to the enjoyment. If you want peace and quiet, you can find that anywhere, but for the nights when you want to go out, there are plenty of options. Also, do summer start if you've had some time off of school. Finally, no matter what, first day of orientation or whatever, find some people to go out with. Orientations not that important, and you'll make friends that you will have throughout law school.

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Verity
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Re: Laptop

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:48 pm

danquayle wrote:I just don't buy that law school is so vastly different than undergrad. Yeah, its more engrossing, but you're still studying. It's not a "different kind" of studying. And it will do nothing towards helping to learn how to dope with the time commitments and varied requirements.


Tell that to a math major.

danquayle wrote:I really, really question the value of one class in "acclimating you to law school."


Maybe you're a scholastic chameleon or something, but the environment itself will be different enough for many to make an early, less demanding start worthwhile.

danquayle wrote:And professors vary so drastically in grading, you'd hurt yourself more trying to find a "right" way to answer. The key to success in law school is just like any other class, or life even. Just know what the professor wants, and give it to him. Gjerdingen essentially wanted a memory dump wherein the A star needs 20 pages of typed material, whereas someone like Shreve wants a tight concise answer done in a page. There's no one answer.


From my discussions with other current LS students, this is an exaggeration. Most professors lie in the middle, and all of them want you to answer the question asked (i.e., no bullshit). It is valid that learning the difference between how professors grade won't occur during summer start, where you only have one professor. But you'll learn that anyway, and summer start will prepare you in many other ways.

The one criticism you didn't add, which I think would be most relevant, would be that summer start could lead to an early burn-out.

Sandro
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby Sandro » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:51 pm

someone else mentioned that the replacement class you would take for the summer class would be mostly 2Ls and 3Ls, making it harder... ?

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Verity
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:09 pm

Sandro wrote:someone else mentioned that the replacement class you would take for the summer class would be mostly 2Ls and 3Ls, making it harder... ?


The course is Criminal Procedure. It's true that the curve might be tougher. I also heard from people that CrimPro is very complicated, but I can't speak to this.

gatorhoosier
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby gatorhoosier » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:26 pm

I think they've changed that and the Fall 1L Crim Pro class for summer starters is all 1L's. You all may want to double check me on that. They had Hoffmann this year for Crim Pro and he is awesome.

One thing to get ready for, Class of 2014, is how much you will hate Wednesday nights after you have put off Legal Writing (LRW) all week and you're rushing to write unbrellas and CREAC's. It won't help that you'll be on Top Law chatting about it either....

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superflush
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Re: Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions

Postby superflush » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:03 pm

Sandro wrote:someone else mentioned that the replacement class you would take for the summer class would be mostly 2Ls and 3Ls, making it harder... ?


this isn't the case anymore. Criminal Pro has an all-1L section for the summer starters.

LogosEther
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Re: Laptop

Postby LogosEther » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:23 am

Oh boy, a lot has been said recently...

STL:
I am definitely happy with my choice. Also, I think it's really important to realize that this thread includes a very small sample size of the school. Your general emotional impressions from this thread are going to be much more influenced by the specific people who choose to write on it, not nearly as much by the school in general. I, for example, don't feel compelled to "sell" IU - I would much rather attempt to be unbiased and give the person good information. I have never read the BU thread, but who knows, they might not be as unbiased. Or maybe they are. No way to tell.

That being said, I lived in Boston for a year, right by BU, and I have a bias against BU in general, so that's my warning. But yeah, I think your main difference between BU and IU is the city thing. I totally love Boston. Boston is cooler than Bloomington. For sure. At the same time, if you want a bit of the "college" feel, Bloomington will be better for that. BU is pretty urban. It's no NYU, but still. It's just kind of smashed between Comm Ave and the Charles. Even the undergrads live apartment-dwelling, urban lifestyles, at least compared to IU, where freshman are required to live in the dorms (I think), etc. So both schools have their pros/cons. I think you should really consider where you want to work after LS, mostly.

Veritas:
I've really found that some people think LS is very different and some don't, and it doesn't necessarily have to do with major. I engineering and I thought law school was pretty natural. Some liberal arts majors said they were thrown for a loop. It depends on who you are and how you think.

Verity wrote:
danquayle wrote:And professors vary so drastically in grading, you'd hurt yourself more trying to find a "right" way to answer. The key to success in law school is just like any other class, or life even. Just know what the professor wants, and give it to him. Gjerdingen essentially wanted a memory dump wherein the A star needs 20 pages of typed material, whereas someone like Shreve wants a tight concise answer done in a page. There's no one answer.


From my discussions with other current LS students, this is an exaggeration. Most professors lie in the middle, and all of them want you to answer the question asked (i.e., no bullshit). It is valid that learning the difference between how professors grade won't occur during summer start, where you only have one professor. But you'll learn that anyway, and summer start will prepare you in many other ways.


Also, as for how professors look for different things... I found this to be the most underrated and surprising thing about my first semester. The professors are very different and it's EXTREMELY important to try to figure out what they want on exam (sometimes they say one thing but they really want another). As one who did really well in Gjerdingen, I can say that he wants you to unfold the whole law for each fact given. I didn't write as much as some people, but I did write a lot (7,500). Obviously all professors want no BS, but there's more to a law school exam than just that.

In the end, I personally feel that summer start is pretty negligible compared to much more important aspects, like your general work ethic and intelligence. Maybe it's worth it if it will really make you feel that much more comfortable...

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danquayle
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Re: Laptop

Postby danquayle » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:18 pm

LogosEther wrote:Oh boy, a lot has been said recently...

Verity wrote:
danquayle wrote:And professors vary so drastically in grading, you'd hurt yourself more trying to find a "right" way to answer. The key to success in law school is just like any other class, or life even. Just know what the professor wants, and give it to him. Gjerdingen essentially wanted a memory dump wherein the A star needs 20 pages of typed material, whereas someone like Shreve wants a tight concise answer done in a page. There's no one answer.


From my discussions with other current LS students, this is an exaggeration. Most professors lie in the middle, and all of them want you to answer the question asked (i.e., no bullshit). It is valid that learning the difference between how professors grade won't occur during summer start, where you only have one professor. But you'll learn that anyway, and summer start will prepare you in many other ways.


Also, as for how professors look for different things... I found this to be the most underrated and surprising thing about my first semester. The professors are very different and it's EXTREMELY important to try to figure out what they want on exam (sometimes they say one thing but they really want another). As one who did really well in Gjerdingen, I can say that he wants you to unfold the whole law for each fact given. I didn't write as much as some people, but I did write a lot (7,500). Obviously all professors want no BS, but there's more to a law school exam than just that.

In the end, I personally feel that summer start is pretty negligible compared to much more important aspects, like your general work ethic and intelligence. Maybe it's worth it if it will really make you feel that much more comfortable...


Yes, it really isn't an exaggeration. Law professors are insanely different in grading and some do want you to "bullshit." They can vary insanely. Some grade largely on your logical argument formation. Some largely on legal knowledge. Some merely want you to parrot out what they told you. Some professors grade almost solely on participation. Some grade on the basis of a single 24 take home. Some grade only on an multiple choice exam. Some want you to produce a massive law review type essay.

Hell, I've taken online courses at the law school.

Who are these law students you're talking to? Because if they're giving you any advice that suggests there is one single way to approach a law exam, they're way way off.

And I still strongly disagree that taking a single law school class will in some how prepare you for the rest of law school. The people I knew who did summer start didn't do any better, and if anything they seemed overconfident to their detriment. I still maintain that summer start is only good for people who think going back to college is going to be a culture shock and need to prepare themselves for a lifestyle change. It's not going to give you a leg up in studying. Even if you're a math major, law school is mostly about reading comprehension. If you don't have that skill going into law school, you're not going to suddenly develop it by taking a single law school class.

You really need to approach each class like an entirely new challenge. The best way is to just grab a copy of old exams and use that as your target. Depending on what's demanded, your prep for each particular exam could vary dramatically. To the extent that there is a "learning curve" to law school in general, its more about time management, personal schedule creation and diligence - not the actual learning and exam taking. And again, a single law school class in the summer will not help you with that.

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Verity
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Re: Laptop

Postby Verity » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:05 pm

danquayle wrote:Who are these law students you're talking to? Because if they're giving you any advice that suggests there is one single way to approach a law exam, they're way way off.


It's called the IRAC method. I've spoken (online and in person) to probably over a hundred current students from HYS to T2, and basically all of them talk about their own professor's insistence on using this. The rest tend to fall into the Getting to Maybe camp. As far as structure and content goes, this is the first time I'm hearing about "insanely different" grading methods. Maybe they're just "insane" methods.




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