Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions Forum

[Unjust Enrichment]

What's so sweet about Bethel?

On top of being the most hilarious curmudgeon you could ever learn from, dude is just brilliant. I know tons about contracts because I had him. Unfortunately the fall schedule indicates that he won't be teaching contracts to 1Ls next year. In any case, I totally feel like I hit the lottery for having learned from him, and I'm really hoping that Mulligan's post was correct about the possibility of taking him again.

(Buxbaum is also hugely reputable and would be great to get for contracts, by the way...and she's still teaching next year).

[Mulliganstew]

What's so sweet about Bethel?

See all of my quotes from law school in the thread of the same name. The man is a storyteller and an amazing professor on top of it.

I'm not seeing him in my tentative spring 2011 schedule. Where'd you see this?

Do a control f for Bethel in the PDF. It comes up with his name for evidence in the final exam portion of the schedule.


Which... is not correlated with the regular schedule. Damn you IUB. If you just reused the final exam schedule from this semester out of laziness and forgot to take the professors' names off, I will... whine a lot.

[Spoonmanners]

This Heidt love fest makes me want to take products liability.

And Gjerdy teaches "Intro to Law"? I am perplexed... shouldn't that be... maybe... a first year class?

[kings84_wr]

This Heidt love fest makes me want to take products liability.

And Gjerdy teaches "Intro to Law"? I am perplexed... shouldn't that be... maybe... a first year class?

Im pretty sure its for LLM or Int students for Gjerdy.

And Heidt sure knows how to write a class description lol. He's a unique guy, I know some people who had an awful time in Torts, but a lot of us really enjoyed it. He sure knows how to teach, so if you take it you will be an expert on Product liability

[Bankhead]

I am definitely taking Products Liability with Bob!

Damn, i wish we could sign up for that Crim Pro class with Hoffmann. I want to destroy some 1L's!

[Spoonmanners]

Oh man, I totally missed that class description:

Treat yourself to a cruise you'll never forget. Meet the Third Restatement "Products Liability"
on the morning of its application. Kick back with the 2008 edition of our text. Find yourself,
in nearly every class, deep in the warren of a problem. Can you thread your way? Is
defendant's product defective? And did that defect cause plaintiff's injury? Can you analyze
and argue out to - another warren? But then every cruise lover knows "life is a journey, not
a destination."

All passengers must take an exam at the end of the cruise. This course cannot be taken as
a “writing” cruise.

That is epic.

[RMstratosphere]

Oh man, I totally missed that class description:

Treat yourself to a cruise you'll never forget. Meet the Third Restatement "Products Liability"
on the morning of its application. Kick back with the 2008 edition of our text. Find yourself,
in nearly every class, deep in the warren of a problem. Can you thread your way? Is
defendant's product defective? And did that defect cause plaintiff's injury? Can you analyze
and argue out to - another warren? But then every cruise lover knows "life is a journey, not
a destination."

All passengers must take an exam at the end of the cruise. This course cannot be taken as
a “writing” cruise.

That is epic.

+170

[pace4tutti]

What is the curve policy like at IU? do you feel the grading policy fosters competition?

[Unjust Enrichment]

What is the curve policy like at IU? do you feel the grading policy fosters competition?

They curve to a 3.3. I imagine that it's similarly competitive to similarly ranked schools, but taking away grades as a scholarship requirement now should reduce the competitive nature a bit.

While the competitiveness exists underneath the surface, everyone is very cordial and helpful around here. The atmosphere is a good one.

[Spoonmanners]

The curve is good, but I think we, as well as other schools, run in to the problem that there are only so many grades to give out. Something like 80% of the class gets an A-, B+, or B, so there isn't much diversity to it.

[kings84_wr]

I actually think the way the curve is set up kind of sucks. I wish it was 3.0 or something. At the very least I wish profs didn't have so much discretion into how they end up with the final distribution. I mean Boshkoff giving out 14 A's and no A-'s and Crim law-Hoff giving out a billion B+'s in years past (and assuming he did it this year) is all kind of ridiculous.

A lot of profs are too scared to give out C+'s or even B-s, so instead they punish the high end, and give lots and lots of B+'s out.

I also think they should give out 4.3 for A+'s like lots of other schools.

[Bankhead]

I actually think the way the curve is set up kind of sucks. I wish it was 3.0 or something. At the very least I wish profs didn't have so much discretion into how they end up with the final distribution. I mean Boshkoff giving out 14 A's and no A-'s and Crim law-Hoff giving out a billion B+'s in years past (and assuming he did it this year) is all kind of ridiculous.

A lot of profs are too scared to give out C+'s or even B-s, so instead they punish the high end, and give lots and lots of B+'s out.

I also think they should give out 4.3 for A+'s like lots of other schools.

+1

And then they allow a certain K's teacher to curve to a 3.5 when every other section is between 3.2-3.3. WTF.

[kings84_wr]

I actually think the way the curve is set up kind of sucks. I wish it was 3.0 or something. At the very least I wish profs didn't have so much discretion into how they end up with the final distribution. I mean Boshkoff giving out 14 A's and no A-'s and Crim law-Hoff giving out a billion B+'s in years past (and assuming he did it this year) is all kind of ridiculous.

A lot of profs are too scared to give out C+'s or even B-s, so instead they punish the high end, and give lots and lots of B+'s out.

I also think they should give out 4.3 for A+'s like lots of other schools.

+1

And then they allow a certain K's teacher to curve to a 3.5 when every other section is between 3.2-3.3. WTF.

Yeah seriously and he gave all his int students straight A's haha. I think Mulligan said that He was retiring, so maybe he was just like screw it.

[kings84_wr]

My oral argument is officially going to be terrible.

Spring break can't come fast enough.

[Mulliganstew]

I actually think the way the curve is set up kind of sucks. I wish it was 3.0 or something. At the very least I wish profs didn't have so much discretion into how they end up with the final distribution. I mean Boshkoff giving out 14 A's and no A-'s and Crim law-Hoff giving out a billion B+'s in years past (and assuming he did it this year) is all kind of ridiculous.

A lot of profs are too scared to give out C+'s or even B-s, so instead they punish the high end, and give lots and lots of B+'s out.

I also think they should give out 4.3 for A+'s like lots of other schools.

+1

And then they allow a certain K's teacher to curve to a 3.5 when every other section is between 3.2-3.3. WTF.

Yeah seriously and he gave all his int students straight A's haha. I think Mulligan said that He was retiring, so maybe he was just like screw it.

Screw it is Bethel's regular mode. I doubt that had anything to do with his retirement.

[kings84_wr]

Haha that is awesome, he sounds pretty sweet.

Its a nice feeling being done with LRW for 2 and 1/2 weeks.

[Bankhead]

I've been done with LRW for 2 and 1/2 months.

[Mulliganstew]

I've been done with LRW for 2 and 1/2 months.

Done as in sick of it or did you pump out the brief as soon as we got the packet?

[pace4tutti]

is anyone on here planning to head to the west coast after graduation? have you found the career services resources helpful for positions outside of the midwest?

[Bankhead]

That is definitely kings territory, but I think he will tell you that (1) IU is respected on westcoast (in that coast lawyers think it's fine; not that they have an orgasm when they see an IU resume) (2) it's doable but (3) it takes considerable legwork.

Obviously, it's going to also depend in large part on your grades.

[HungryHippo]

Along the lines of pace4tutti's questions, (and i know you guys might be biased) I was wondering whether you guys honestly feel that IUB's rise in the rankings (and maintaining them), would lead to more national recognition down the line in terms of job placement (hopefully in 3 years?? ). I recently saw the "Go to law schools" and was dismayed that IUB did not make the top 50. I'm not one of those big law or bust people, but it would be nice to have the option.

[kings84_wr]

That is definitely kings territory, but I think he will tell you that (1) IU is respected on westcoast (in that coast lawyers think it's fine; not that they have an orgasm when they see an IU resume) (2) it's doable but (3) it takes considerable legwork.

Obviously, it's going to also depend in large part on your grades.

Yeah this is definitely it. Ive talked to Professor Steele (Former Hiring partner at Big law from CA) and he basically says IU is nice, its a good school and respected and it won't hurt you. The key really is Area ties, networking, and not having unrealistic expectations.

I know its only a internship, but I got a federal judge in CA and the clerks seemed to think highly of IU.

I know of one guy that is going back to NorCal next year, and clerking with a fed judge or maybe State supreme court, and then working in a big law firm in the bay area. So subjectively there are people who get big-law on the West coast even now.

The real unfortunate truth is that CA market is rough right now for everyone. If you wan't big law in CA its a tough road from any school outside of Stanford and Berkeley, even UCLA and USC are having tough times, or at least the people that i know that go there. I dont know a whole lot about other West coast markets, I hear the pacific northwest is pretty tough to break into and Arizona is pretty rough right now as well.

Area ties are really important to these firms though, I would almost argue that if you have no West coast ties previously you are probably screwed.

And yeah at the end grades make a huge difference (and if you want big law outside of the area and have grades and are not concerned with debt then the reality is transferring may be the best answer)

[kings84_wr]

Along the lines of pace4tutti's questions, (and i know you guys might be biased) I was wondering whether you guys honestly feel that IUB's rise in the rankings (and maintaining them), would lead to more national recognition down the line in terms of job placement (hopefully in 3 years?? ). I recently saw the "Go to law schools" and was dismayed that IUB did not make the top 50. I'm not one of those big law or bust people, but it would be nice to have the option.

Well first, Not to start the whole ranked/over-ranked/drop/rising debate, but I think IU will stay in the 20's. IU has one thing on all the other schools around it, lots and lots of money, and money is the best way to game the rankings. (and I dont mean gaming as a bad thing, cuz in reality its good for everyone, higher scholarship amounts, better programs, great profs etc.)

I dunno how much it will help, but it certainly is good. I think the problem is, that the rise came at the same time as the collapse of the economy. So hopefully when the market stabilizes, IU will do better, but its too tough to really tell. I think one of hte problems is the CHicago market is flooded with schools. Not only do you have NU and CHicago, but all the lower ranked chicago shcool, plus all the midwest state schools, Plus WUSTL and ND. I think IU's big obstacle is going to be having a market to place students, as we talked about a few pages back, Indy, Louisville and some other local areas are really the best bets right now. Chicago is just not a major reality unless there are special circumstances. (and I have a feeling that Iowa and Wisconsin and OHio state are similarly locked out of Chicago right now).

I have a feeling IU may gain some ground on the other state schools, and certainly being ranked in the top 25 will help with taht. My hope is that the clerkships numbers especially are able to increase, cuz the reality is IU should be able to do better then it does. IU has a good reputation with law firms and judges at least the ones I have talked to, so I really think the big obstacle is there just isn't the a local market to place in.

[HungryHippo]

Along the lines of pace4tutti's questions, (and i know you guys might be biased) I was wondering whether you guys honestly feel that IUB's rise in the rankings (and maintaining them), would lead to more national recognition down the line in terms of job placement (hopefully in 3 years?? ). I recently saw the "Go to law schools" and was dismayed that IUB did not make the top 50. I'm not one of those big law or bust people, but it would be nice to have the option.

Well first, Not to start the whole ranked/over-ranked/drop/rising debate, but I think IU will stay in the 20's. IU has one thing on all the other schools around it, lots and lots of money, and money is the best way to game the rankings. (and I dont mean gaming as a bad thing, cuz in reality its good for everyone, higher scholarship amounts, better programs, great profs etc.)

I dunno how much it will help, but it certainly is good. I think the problem is, that the rise came at the same time as the collapse of the economy. So hopefully when the market stabilizes, IU will do better, but its too tough to really tell. I think one of hte problems is the CHicago market is flooded with schools. Not only do you have NU and CHicago, but all the lower ranked chicago shcool, plus all the midwest state schools, Plus WUSTL and ND. I think IU's big obstacle is going to be having a market to place students, as we talked about a few pages back, Indy, Louisville and some other local areas are really the best bets right now. Chicago is just not a major reality unless there are special circumstances. (and I have a feeling that Iowa and Wisconsin and OHio state are similarly locked out of Chicago right now).

I have a feeling IU may gain some ground on the other state schools, and certainly being ranked in the top 25 will help with taht. My hope is that the clerkships numbers especially are able to increase, cuz the reality is IU should be able to do better then it does. IU has a good reputation with law firms and judges at least the ones I have talked to, so I really think the big obstacle is there just isn't the a local market to place in.

Thank you for your honest answer. Coming from California, it's good to hear that Indiana has some recognition over here.

[tbd]

Any thoughts on Indiana in the D.C. and Boston market?

Big Ten, fun college town is a pretty big draw!