WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

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ruleser
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby ruleser » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:33 pm

I like how this thread has become a 'how hot are the chicks' thread. WUSTL will very possibly be one of my solid options. Any knowledge of how placement in ChiTown is these days? Do you know is STL weather is better/worse than Chicago (I used to live there so I'd like to compare)? Anything particular about the academics that you've learned that sounds cool/bad that you didn't know (better clinics/crappy library, etc.)?

As for women, glad to hear St.L does well. I'd be coming from LA, so anywhere will be a different league, but seriously, not really a question I'd think too much about unless it was some unique/remote place like WandL, maybe Cornell...

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chicoalto0649
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby chicoalto0649 » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:39 pm

Anyone wanna take a stab at my chances with a 3.3 gpa and a 163 lsat with really strong upward trend/very diverse story- also urm (mexican american)

shazam
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby shazam » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:23 pm

I'm a 1L at WUSTL. Don't be fooled by the pretty campus, state of the art building, friendly professors, generous scholarships, friendly and interesting classmates, super-well-funded CSO, high LSAT/GPA, and top-notch clinic/summer opportunities. At heart, it is a place with too many smart students and not enough desirable jobs to go around. The legal market has changed drastically from where it was 2 years ago. T20 is no longer the new T14. Come here in 10 years, when the jobs will catch up with the dramatic improvements the school has made. Until then, go T14 or the biggest scholarship in the city you most want to work in.

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rondemarino
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby rondemarino » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:52 pm

shazam wrote:I'm a 1L at WUSTL. Don't be fooled by the pretty campus, state of the art building, friendly professors, generous scholarships, friendly and interesting classmates, super-well-funded CSO, high LSAT/GPA, and top-notch clinic/summer opportunities. At heart, it is a place with too many smart students and not enough desirable jobs to go around. The legal market has changed drastically from where it was 2 years ago. T20 is no longer the new T14. Come here in 10 years, when the jobs will catch up with the dramatic improvements the school has made. Until then, go T14 or the biggest scholarship in the city you most want to work in.


Bad news from OCI? Since you're a 1L, I'm wondering what go you so down on the school in 3 months?

shazam
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby shazam » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:07 am

rondemarino wrote:
shazam wrote:I'm a 1L at WUSTL. Don't be fooled by the pretty campus, state of the art building, friendly professors, generous scholarships, friendly and interesting classmates, super-well-funded CSO, high LSAT/GPA, and top-notch clinic/summer opportunities. At heart, it is a place with too many smart students and not enough desirable jobs to go around. The legal market has changed drastically from where it was 2 years ago. T20 is no longer the new T14. Come here in 10 years, when the jobs will catch up with the dramatic improvements the school has made. Until then, go T14 or the biggest scholarship in the city you most want to work in.


Bad news from OCI? Since you're a 1L, I'm wondering what go you so down on the school in 3 months?

The 2L's are not happy, not one bit. The CSO is trying to get us to suggest cities other than NY, Chicago, or DC where they can focus their recruiting efforts. The impression I get is that those cities are not that interested in WashU. And there are a LOT more ridiculously smart and hard-working students in my class who should be in T14 schools than the 20-25% who it seems will have a shot at biglaw/top salaries.

Perhaps it is the same at every other school. Perhaps I'm the one who is stressed out about upcoming finals. Maybe I'm not as smart as I thought I was (this is most likely what it is). But I came here with a real good scholarship and numbers well above median, and despite hard work and a solid grasp of the material, I'm not doing particularly well here. Perhaps a better moral to my story is that you should never go to a school counting on doing any better than median, and be prepared for the consequences if you're below. I urge everyone to read the E&E's for Torts and Contracts before coming here. I kick myself every night for not doing it sooner.

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najumobi
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby najumobi » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:22 am

shazam wrote:I'm a 1L at WUSTL. Don't be fooled by the pretty campus, state of the art building, friendly professors, generous scholarships, friendly and interesting classmates, super-well-funded CSO, high LSAT/GPA, and top-notch clinic/summer opportunities. At heart, it is a place with too many smart students and not enough desirable jobs to go around. The legal market has changed drastically from where it was 2 years ago. T20 is no longer the new T14. Come here in 10 years, when the jobs will catch up with the dramatic improvements the school has made. Until then, go T14 or the biggest scholarship in the city you most want to work in.

are you saying don't compromise between a near full scholly and T14 (i.e. 50% scholarship @ a top 30 school)?

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:28 am

shazam wrote:I'm a 1L at WUSTL. Don't be fooled by the pretty campus, state of the art building, friendly professors, generous scholarships, friendly and interesting classmates, super-well-funded CSO, high LSAT/GPA, and top-notch clinic/summer opportunities. At heart, it is a place with too many smart students and not enough desirable jobs to go around. The legal market has changed drastically from where it was 2 years ago. T20 is no longer the new T14. Come here in 10 years, when the jobs will catch up with the dramatic improvements the school has made. Until then, go T14 or the biggest scholarship in the city you most want to work in.


Well thankfully for me, WUSTL is probably going to give me the biggest scholarship and St. Louis is the city I most want to practice in. So yeah... I guess you aren't going to scare me away.

I visited WUSTL last week and loved it. I immediately felt at home and I kicked myself the whole way home for not attending UGrad there. Awesome school, beautiful campus, etc. etc. Granted, that doesn't necessarily make up for tough job prospects, but I feel like jobs are tough to come by anywhere.

Najumobi, if I don't get in with my ED to Michigan, I will probably see you at WUSTL next fall.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:31 am

ruleser wrote:I like how this thread has become a 'how hot are the chicks' thread. WUSTL will very possibly be one of my solid options. Any knowledge of how placement in ChiTown is these days? Do you know is STL weather is better/worse than Chicago (I used to live there so I'd like to compare)? Anything particular about the academics that you've learned that sounds cool/bad that you didn't know (better clinics/crappy library, etc.)?


Being from the Midwest, I can tell you that the St. Louis summers are much hotter and the winters are not nearly as harsh.

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najumobi
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby najumobi » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:34 am

romothesavior wrote: Najumobi, if I don't get in with my ED to Michigan, I will probably see you at WUSTL next fall.

nice...i've been pretty pumped about WUSTL too...though shazam's posts started making me nervous.
i'm expecting no more than a modest scholly if any at all, but your excitement is makes me feel a lot better.

shazam
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby shazam » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:37 am

najumobi wrote:
shazam wrote:I'm a 1L at WUSTL. Don't be fooled by the pretty campus, state of the art building, friendly professors, generous scholarships, friendly and interesting classmates, super-well-funded CSO, high LSAT/GPA, and top-notch clinic/summer opportunities. At heart, it is a place with too many smart students and not enough desirable jobs to go around. The legal market has changed drastically from where it was 2 years ago. T20 is no longer the new T14. Come here in 10 years, when the jobs will catch up with the dramatic improvements the school has made. Until then, go T14 or the biggest scholarship in the city you most want to work in.

are you saying don't compromise between a near full scholly and T14 (i.e. 50% scholarship @ a top 30 school)?

I'm saying that if you don't get into a T14 (UCLA is ok, maybe on Texas/Vandy) then you need to think very hard about where you want to work. Once you know where you want to work, go to the best law school you can get into in that region/city. Do not take a 50% scholarship at a T30 school. In fact, you probably shouldn't even take a 100% scholarship at a T30 school unless its in a city where you are happy to work. Because national mobility is probable only from the T14, or the top 15-20% at the T30. And I don't care how smart you think you are, you cannot count on placing in the top 15-20%.

I'm getting all kinds of connections to the St. Louis legal community, but they're useless to me because I don't plan on practicing in St. Louis. I should have gone to Fordham and paid full price.

Bottom line is that if you want to work within 250 miles of St. Louis, then WUSTL is PERFECT. Otherwise, think real hard . . . cuz T20 isn't what articles written 2 years ago would have you believe.

shazam
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby shazam » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:39 am

romothesavior wrote:
shazam wrote:I'm a 1L at WUSTL. Don't be fooled by the pretty campus, state of the art building, friendly professors, generous scholarships, friendly and interesting classmates, super-well-funded CSO, high LSAT/GPA, and top-notch clinic/summer opportunities. At heart, it is a place with too many smart students and not enough desirable jobs to go around. The legal market has changed drastically from where it was 2 years ago. T20 is no longer the new T14. Come here in 10 years, when the jobs will catch up with the dramatic improvements the school has made. Until then, go T14 or the biggest scholarship in the city you most want to work in.


Well thankfully for me, WUSTL is probably going to give me the biggest scholarship and St. Louis is the city I most want to practice in. So yeah... I guess you aren't going to scare me away.

I visited WUSTL last week and loved it. I immediately felt at home and I kicked myself the whole way home for not attending UGrad there. Awesome school, beautiful campus, etc. etc. Granted, that doesn't necessarily make up for tough job prospects, but I feel like jobs are tough to come by anywhere.

Najumobi, if I don't get in with my ED to Michigan, I will probably see you at WUSTL next fall.

Good! I don't want to scare people away who want to work in St. Louis. Just east coasters who are seduced by giant scholarships and think that they can beat the curve.

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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:41 am

Shazam, that's probably good advice. Still, I get very frustrated with many TLSers who think that LA, Chicago, and NY are the only three markets worth being in. 160k or 140k in NY is awesome money, but factor in the COL and all of a sudden it isn't quite the same. I'd be content with a well-paying job in a city like STL, Indianapolis, Nashville, etc. It doesn't have to be V10 or bust.

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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby rondemarino » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:41 am

to shazem: Do you wish you'd gone to Vandy?

shazam
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby shazam » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:45 am

rondemarino wrote:to shazem: Do you wish you'd gone to Vandy?

yes, unless I surprise myself during finals and beat the odds.

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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:46 am

shazam wrote:
rondemarino wrote:to shazem: Do you wish you'd gone to Vandy?

yes, unless I surprise myself during finals and beat the odds.


Intersting insight, especially since I'm visiting Vanderbilt this weekend.

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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby pjarron » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:48 am

shazam wrote:
rondemarino wrote:to shazem: Do you wish you'd gone to Vandy?

yes, unless I surprise myself during finals and beat the odds.


Do you think Vandy has better placement in Chicago or the midwest?

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rondemarino
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby rondemarino » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:50 am

shazam wrote:
rondemarino wrote:to shazem: Do you wish you'd gone to Vandy?

yes, unless I surprise myself during finals and beat the odds.


can you PM me your LSN handle? If you're the guy with a profile I'm thinking of, I have a few questions for you.

hitmon33
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby hitmon33 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:53 am

Is it likely that one can work in St. Louis for a couple of years after attending Washington U and then move on to a more desirable location? Or does your WASH U degree lock you into the Midwest for a significant portion of time?

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rondemarino
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby rondemarino » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:55 am

hitmon33 wrote:Is it likely that one can work in St. Louis for a couple of years after attending Washington U and then move on to a more desirable location? Or does your WASH U degree lock you into the Midwest for a significant portion of time?


0Ls or 1Ls are probably not the best people to talk to about lateral moves.

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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby shazam » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:56 am

romothesavior wrote:Shazam, that's probably good advice. Still, I get very frustrated with many TLSers who think that LA, Chicago, and NY are the only three markets worth being in. 160k or 140k in NY is awesome money, but factor in the COL and all of a sudden it isn't quite the same. I'd be content with a well-paying job in a city like STL, Indianapolis, Nashville, etc. It doesn't have to be V10 or bust.

I get frustrated with them, too! Why are they trying edge me out???

I'd be content here, too. But I want to be more than content. True, there's a higher COL, but for me, there's also a higher QOL (quality of life) issue.

pjarron: Vandy for Chicago, probably slight edge to Vandy in the rest of the midwest, except for Missouri. Although if you want to be in the Midwest, the scholarship at WUSTL probably makes it worth it, since that's where your options will be strongest and vandy has only a slight edge. But its hard for me to compare the two schools since I only know how things were last year. The main difference is in BigLaw or other top salaried firms that recruit much deeper into the class during OCI at Vanderbilt, giving you a lot more breathing room.

shazam
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby shazam » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:58 am

rondemarino wrote:
hitmon33 wrote:Is it likely that one can work in St. Louis for a couple of years after attending Washington U and then move on to a more desirable location? Or does your WASH U degree lock you into the Midwest for a significant portion of time?


0Ls or 1Ls are probably not the best people to talk to about lateral moves.

Ronde is correct, I'm not the best person to ask.

But in general, its not so much the degree that locks you into a particular area so much as the nature and location and your performance at your first job after you graduate.

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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby pjarron » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:03 am

shazam wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Shazam, that's probably good advice. Still, I get very frustrated with many TLSers who think that LA, Chicago, and NY are the only three markets worth being in. 160k or 140k in NY is awesome money, but factor in the COL and all of a sudden it isn't quite the same. I'd be content with a well-paying job in a city like STL, Indianapolis, Nashville, etc. It doesn't have to be V10 or bust.

I get frustrated with them, too! Why are they trying edge me out???

I'd be content here, too. But I want to be more than content. True, there's a higher COL, but for me, there's also a higher QOL (quality of life) issue.

pjarron: Vandy for Chicago, probably slight edge to Vandy in the rest of the midwest, except for Missouri. Although if you want to be in the Midwest, the scholarship at WUSTL probably makes it worth it, since that's where your options will be strongest and vandy has only a slight edge. But its hard for me to compare the two schools since I only know how things were last year. The main difference is in BigLaw or other top salaried firms that recruit much deeper into the class during OCI at Vanderbilt, giving you a lot more breathing room.



Really, i always figured Wustl had an edge in Chicago and the midwest, since Wustl is a midwestern school and Vandy is a southern school.

shazam
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby shazam » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:08 am

pjarron wrote:
shazam wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Shazam, that's probably good advice. Still, I get very frustrated with many TLSers who think that LA, Chicago, and NY are the only three markets worth being in. 160k or 140k in NY is awesome money, but factor in the COL and all of a sudden it isn't quite the same. I'd be content with a well-paying job in a city like STL, Indianapolis, Nashville, etc. It doesn't have to be V10 or bust.

I get frustrated with them, too! Why are they trying edge me out???

I'd be content here, too. But I want to be more than content. True, there's a higher COL, but for me, there's also a higher QOL (quality of life) issue.

pjarron: Vandy for Chicago, probably slight edge to Vandy in the rest of the midwest, except for Missouri. Although if you want to be in the Midwest, the scholarship at WUSTL probably makes it worth it, since that's where your options will be strongest and vandy has only a slight edge. But its hard for me to compare the two schools since I only know how things were last year. The main difference is in BigLaw or other top salaried firms that recruit much deeper into the class during OCI at Vanderbilt, giving you a lot more breathing room.



Really, i always figured Wustl had an edge in Chicago and the midwest, since Wustl is a midwestern school and Vandy is a southern school.

UChicago, Michigan and Northwestern dominate Chicago; UIUC does OK, and everyone else is only as good as their national reputation. At least, that's how it seems to me. But don't take my word for it; send an email to 10-15 firms in chicago where you'd like to work and ask them where they'd rather hire from.

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WassAnch
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby WassAnch » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:00 am

Personally, I'm extremely happy that I took a large scholarship at WUSTL. Being able to graduate with no debt really takes the pressure off. I mean, what happens if you don't land a biglaw job out of a t-14 and are stuck with 100k+ in student loans? Since even t-14s are having trouble placing students in biglaw jobs, I think that it is a much safer choice to take the money.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather make 50-60k (in any city) and be debt free than take a 100k+ gamble to have a better shot at getting the "opportunity" to slave away in NY/DC/LA just to pay off student loans.

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ruleser
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby ruleser » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:51 am

shazam wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Shazam, that's probably good advice. Still, I get very frustrated with many TLSers who think that LA, Chicago, and NY are the only three markets worth being in. 160k or 140k in NY is awesome money, but factor in the COL and all of a sudden it isn't quite the same. I'd be content with a well-paying job in a city like STL, Indianapolis, Nashville, etc. It doesn't have to be V10 or bust.

I get frustrated with them, too! Why are they trying edge me out???

I'd be content here, too. But I want to be more than content. True, there's a higher COL, but for me, there's also a higher QOL (quality of life) issue.

pjarron: Vandy for Chicago, probably slight edge to Vandy in the rest of the midwest, except for Missouri. Although if you want to be in the Midwest, the scholarship at WUSTL probably makes it worth it, since that's where your options will be strongest and vandy has only a slight edge. But its hard for me to compare the two schools since I only know how things were last year. The main difference is in BigLaw or other top salaried firms that recruit much deeper into the class during OCI at Vanderbilt, giving you a lot more breathing room.

Not doubting, just wondering where you heard this from/how you know this?




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