Michigan 1L taking questions Forum

[rondemarino]

On a more serious note - when looking at Michigan did you have any concerns about its location? I mean, football and beer is great and all, but I can't imagine that its easy to find opportunities to clerk with prominent law firms during the school year.

Definitely, the location was my number one concern for me. I'm not into football at all and the nice thing is that you don't have to be into football... I do all my weekly shopping during the football games and the stores are deserted. It's sweet.

You mean... interning with a law firm and clerking with a judge right? Okay so...

Interning with a law firm: Law firms generally do not take 1Ls. In fact, the career center won't even begin to help you until December 1st. If you're lucky enough to score an internship, it takes place in the summer so location is not an issue there. I hear there are ABA restrictions on how much you can work during 1L and additionally, YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK YOUR 1L YEAR! Concentrate on getting good grades, everything else will fall into place later. If you're talking about 2L or 3L year, you can get an externship which mean you can leave Michigan and go to any city you want and intern, clerk, take classes.. whatever. I think that's true at every Law School though. I heard that if you never want to step into Michigan Law again after 2L, you don't have to because of all the outside opportunities available.

Clerking with a Judge: This happens during the summer so location is not an issue.

I want to double stress that location is definitely not a minus to Michigan. There's nothing you can do at other schools that you can't do at Michigan academically and career-wise.

Well, that's not entirely true. There are some limitations to not being in a big metro. Sent you a PM. Didn't feel the need to hijack.

p.s: I'm pretty sure you need to have 2 years in residence at Michigan to get a degree from there.

[topsome]

What is something that I would not know about the school by looking at its website that you would like to share?

What is the teaching style?

Do you consider it relatively diverse? (sorry urm question I know)

1. What is something that I would not know about the school by looking at its website that you would like to share? I think once you attend the ASW, orientation and the first few weeks of classes you kind of get a kick of cool everything is... looking at the website, you kind of see the duller side of Michigan. Being here in person is a whole another experience. Like I've mentioned, I've gone to many many accepted student's day and of course the administration and students want you to believe that there's a lot of school spirit and sense of togetherness... but Michigan was the only school where every single student I talk to just walking around (not the volunteers for the events) were genuinely happy to be there. People were so excited to answer your questions and show you around, even if they're on their way to class. I thought that was impressive and I continue to feel that vibe now that I'm here.

2. What is the teaching style? Of the four classes I'm taking this year, none of the professors really do the Socratic method. Sure, they call on some poor sucker in the beginning of the class once in a while but once they don't know the answer, they generally move on. Plus, everyone volunteers so no one is put in awkward position. The professors are very engaging and patient... not to mention they're geniuses in their field. I have only positive things to say about the professors here. They're very beloved and very accessible.

3. Do you consider it relatively diverse? My friend and I were just talking about this the other day. Michigan seems more diverse compared to a lot of the other schools I've been to like UVA or Duke but is it representative of the population? No.. not at all. I think the vast majority of the people here are Caucasian, Asians are the biggest minority group but by no means overwhelming, there are a handful of Hispanics and my black friend counted ten or twelve black law students during the orientation speeches. But no worries though, race isn't really much of an issue here. I'm a minority and we kind of all mingle with everyone.

[topsome]

how much does Michigan value volunteering and public service that I may have done during undergrad. I have a low gpa and will have a 3.0 at graduation, but have a strong upward trend. Do they put much emphasis on that?

I think they will absolutely value your public service. In fact, Michigan really pushes all the students here to think about working in public service and they have fellowships for those who pursue public service during their 1L summer. There is even a mandatory service day during orientation where we volunteer around Michigan to tutor kids, pick up trash, clean up graffiti etc...

However, even though Michigan seems to be less numbers oriented than their peers I still think it's very much a numbers game. Everyone has fabulous softs so while public service is definitely a positive, it will not give you the boost you're looking for. All I can really advise is for your to completely demolish the LSAT and come out with a 172+. I know that's not the answer you were looking for but I learned the hard way that schools care about numbers first, then the softs kick in.

[topsome]

On a more serious note - when looking at Michigan did you have any concerns about its location? I mean, football and beer is great and all, but I can't imagine that its easy to find opportunities to clerk with prominent law firms during the school year.

Definitely, the location was my number one concern for me. I'm not into football at all and the nice thing is that you don't have to be into football... I do all my weekly shopping during the football games and the stores are deserted. It's sweet.

You mean... interning with a law firm and clerking with a judge right? Okay so...

Interning with a law firm: Law firms generally do not take 1Ls. In fact, the career center won't even begin to help you until December 1st. If you're lucky enough to score an internship, it takes place in the summer so location is not an issue there. I hear there are ABA restrictions on how much you can work during 1L and additionally, YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK YOUR 1L YEAR! Concentrate on getting good grades, everything else will fall into place later. If you're talking about 2L or 3L year, you can get an externship which mean you can leave Michigan and go to any city you want and intern, clerk, take classes.. whatever. I think that's true at every Law School though. I heard that if you never want to step into Michigan Law again after 2L, you don't have to because of all the outside opportunities available.

Clerking with a Judge: This happens during the summer so location is not an issue.

I want to double stress that location is definitely not a minus to Michigan. There's nothing you can do at other schools that you can't do at Michigan academically and career-wise.

Well, that's not entirely true. There are some limitations to not being in a big metro. Sent you a PM. Didn't feel the need to hijack.

p.s: I'm pretty sure you need to have 2 years in residence at Michigan to get a degree from there.

Yes yes, I want to reiterate that after 2L or 2 years, you can go do those externships. I'm sure a 2L or a 3L can shed more light to this because I haven't looked into it yet.

Also, I don't want to be misleading so I'm going to change my answer to:
I want to stress that location is definitely not a minus to Michigan. There's nothing you can do at other schools that you can't do at Michigan academically and career-wise barring some unique person situation you want to pursue. But even then, I would recommend give Michigan a call and asking them tough questions. They're very good and can answer all your specific questions better than I can. I can only answer based on my limited knowledge and mostly, I can answer questions about the social scene, QOL, personal feelings about the students, personal feelings about the professor, how much I like or dislike the classes and that kind of stuff.

[topsome]

Thanks for creating this thread topsome. I'm assuming you are EFGH as well since you referred to Roberts coming into Torts?

I'm also a 1L at Michigan and can assist in answering any questions or providing a supplementary perspective on any issues that you might have. Anyone can feel free to PM me with any questions as well that you don't want to ask in the thread, I'll be more than happy to answer.

Sweet! I'm sure everyone will enjoy another perspective. Thanks for chiming in!

[tralinds]

One last thing, Supreme Court Chief Justice came to our Torts class today!!!! It was unfuckingbelievable. I think this is the type of thing only us law nerds get excited about. We're celebrating our 150th Anniversary this weekend.

Haha I am in that class too.

I am a 1L who also attended Michigan as an undergrad, so I'd be happy to answer questions too.

[lawlover829]

One last thing, Supreme Court Chief Justice came to our Torts class today!!!! It was unfuckingbelievable. I think this is the type of thing only us law nerds get excited about. We're celebrating our 150th Anniversary this weekend.

Haha I am in that class too.

I am a 1L who also attended Michigan as an undergrad, so I'd be happy to answer questions too.

Which class is it

[rondemarino]

This will be an interesting question - what concerns do you have about Michigan Law relative to its academic peers? How do you think these concerns could be addressed?

[LongRifle]

.

[Kant]

[quote="LongRifle"]Yes, all the time. Undergrad girls are always hanging out in the law quad at night. So, it's very easy to talk to girls. Plus, the tri-delts are our closest neighbors. But it seems kind of difficult to date other law students so far.

[quote]

Well done.

[itzjulz]

Haven't been on here in a while, but I'm procrastinating starting a bluebook citations exercise. Fire away.

[topsome]

We should merge our threads http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... +questions

[nucklm05]

Michigan Law is far and away my top choice school. I can't apply Early Decision because I cannot do the summer program, but other than that I would be more than happy to commit to Michigan definitively before hearing from any other law schools. Do you think legitimate dedication to Michigan will help me in gaining admission, and how do you think I could best indicate my extreme interest in U-M? I realize there is the "Why Michigan?" essay and the personal statement, but what would you suggest I focus on?

[YCrevolution]

..

[itzjulz]

Michigan Law is far and away my top choice school. I can't apply Early Decision because I cannot do the summer program, but other than that I would be more than happy to commit to Michigan definitively before hearing from any other law schools. Do you think legitimate dedication to Michigan will help me in gaining admission, and how do you think I could best indicate my extreme interest in U-M? I realize there is the "Why Michigan?" essay and the personal statement, but what would you suggest I focus on?

Really put some work into the "Why Michigan" essay. If you don't have really sound reasons for wanting to come to Ann Arbor, come visit and find some. The admissions staff really does care what people put into those essays. Personally, in my essay I touched on several things about the quad, the city, some faculty and alums that I have come in contact with over the past few years, and I also pointed out that I wanted to come back to Michigan and have my family as a support system. Basically, the "Why Michigan" essay doesn't have to be (and maybe shouldn't be...) you just lauding some particular professor's work or some random facts about the school that you could pull out of the viewbook or the website. Think about why you really want to come here, and why you belong here. and write about that.

If you are waitlisted, or don't hear back in the first round of admits, then you could send a LOCI that expresses your willingness to commit to UM immediately if they accept you.

Good luck

[chewdak]

What is the fallout from Cooley opening its newest campus in Ann Arbor?

[jackassjim]

Michigan Law is far and away my top choice school. I can't apply Early Decision because I cannot do the summer program, but other than that I would be more than happy to commit to Michigan definitively before hearing from any other law schools. Do you think legitimate dedication to Michigan will help me in gaining admission, and how do you think I could best indicate my extreme interest in U-M? I realize there is the "Why Michigan?" essay and the personal statement, but what would you suggest I focus on?

Really put some work into the "Why Michigan" essay. If you don't have really sound reasons for wanting to come to Ann Arbor, come visit and find some. The admissions staff really does care what people put into those essays. Personally, in my essay I touched on several things about the quad, the city, some faculty and alums that I have come in contact with over the past few years, and I also pointed out that I wanted to come back to Michigan and have my family as a support system. Basically, the "Why Michigan" essay doesn't have to be (and maybe shouldn't be...) you just lauding some particular professor's work or some random facts about the school that you could pull out of the viewbook or the website. Think about why you really want to come here, and why you belong here. and write about that.

If you are waitlisted, or don't hear back in the first round of admits, then you could send a LOCI that expresses your willingness to commit to UM immediately if they accept you.

Good luck

Thanks!

[Vincent Vega]

How much do you think Early Decision factors into decisions for reverse splitters? Michigan has somewhat of a reputation for being unfriendly to reverse splitters and weighing LSAT heavily into decisions.

My LSAT is slightly below the 25th percentile, but my GPA is well above the 75th and my softs are top-notch for an in-undergrad applicant. Michigan is definitely where I want to go, and I am applying ED. Will the commitment help my chances enough to make me at least close to admittance?

[ilovelawapps]

How much do you think Early Decision factors into decisions for reverse splitters? Michigan has somewhat of a reputation for being unfriendly to reverse splitters and weighing LSAT heavily into decisions.

My LSAT is slightly below the 25th percentile, but my GPA is well above the 75th and my softs are top-notch for an in-undergrad applicant. Michigan is definitely where I want to go, and I am applying ED. Will the commitment help my chances enough to make me at least close to admittance?

On a related note, do you know anything about how ED factors into non-splitter applicants whose numbers are both below median (say 30-40% odds on LSP etc)?

[rondemarino]

How much do you think Early Decision factors into decisions for reverse splitters? Michigan has somewhat of a reputation for being unfriendly to reverse splitters and weighing LSAT heavily into decisions.

My LSAT is slightly below the 25th percentile, but my GPA is well above the 75th and my softs are top-notch for an in-undergrad applicant. Michigan is definitely where I want to go, and I am applying ED. Will the commitment help my chances enough to make me at least close to admittance?

On a related note, do you know anything about how ED factors into borderline applicants (say 30-40% odds on LSP etc)?

You would do well to not put any stock into LSP's numerical odds. Type in 168/3.5 and look at the numerical odds at the lower T-14. Yes, 168/3.5 isn't too far away from 170/3.6, but it makes a world of difference in terms of admissions outcomes when it comes to the lower T-14. See LSN for confirmation.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Also a 1L and wanted to add my two cents about diversity issues.

I am asian and I chose Michigan over UVA (where I had a larger scholarship) precisely for that reason. I think it's definitely important and I am happy to say there is plenty of diversity here. I believe minorities make up roughly 15-20% of the class which is a lot higher than some of the other top schools. APALSA is the largest student organization and they host some great events. The other affinity groups on campus are also quite involved.

But the biggest plus i think is that the university as a whole is very diverse, probably closing in on 30%. there are plenty of opportunities to mix with grad students from the other schools, all of which tend to be a lot more diverse than the law school. same goes for the undergrads.

Quality of life here is great, i wouldn't worry about ann arbor, it's a great town and there is plenty to do here. If you're a foodie, you wont run out of restaurants very soon. There is plenty for the arts lovers and everything is accessible. The law school is at the heart of the main campus which is at the heart of the city so you can get to everything on foot which is the best part. I thought I was going to miss not having a car but now I am just loving it.

Oh btw, yes the honeys on campus are hot as hell, no comparison, one of the advantages of going to a big state school.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Oh i wanted to add that the professors here are just absolutely brilliant and amazing, which is expected from a top school but what I wasn't expecting was how humble and accessible they are. If you get a chance, sit in on a class and you'll get a feel for it. The professors don't really follow strict socratic method which relieves a lot of the pressure and since most of them have banned laptops (which is a good thing, trust me), discussions in class are really lively and informative. Classes are actually fun and it's what I most look forward to. It's easy to lose track of the process, being as how we are all insanely goal oriented, but the process is long, and I am so glad that my classes are interesting, informative, entertaining and not so overly intense that I am stressed out all the time.

[Vincent Vega]

malcolminthemiddle,

I really appreciate you coming on here and giving your opinion on UMich's law school. Many of the other T14 schools have huge threads of a similar nature, and I think this one is a little neglected.

That being said, do you think you could address my question from last week, as listed a few items above?

Thank you!

[j2d3]

Know of anyone pursuing a joint degree with the school of information (jd/msi)? Its a unique opportunity - Stanford offers jd/mscs but that's the only other law school with an explicitly supported 3 yr joint jd and computer related masters.
What about class size? Do you feel lost in the crowd at all?

[malcolminthemiddle]

malcolminthemiddle,

I really appreciate you coming on here and giving your opinion on UMich's law school. Many of the other T14 schools have huge threads of a similar nature, and I think this one is a little neglected.

That being said, do you think you could address my question from last week, as listed a few items above?

Thank you!

You're guess is as good as mine in regards to admissions chances. I went the other way, high lsat, low gpa, so I can't speak to that much.

As for timing, I applied in mid december, and heard back early february. I did write a why mich essay which i think was rather important.

Dean Z has cult status when it comes to picking the right people, not sure if it's fully justified, might be a product of just being super friendly and nice. That being said, I think everyone here is pretty accomplished in their own ways.