Michigan 1L taking questions Forum

[malcolminthemiddle]

Know of anyone pursuing a joint degree with the school of information (jd/msi)? Its a unique opportunity - Stanford offers jd/mscs but that's the only other law school with an explicitly supported 3 yr joint jd and computer related masters.
What about class size? Do you feel lost in the crowd at all?

No clue about joint degrees.

As for class size, it's all what you make of it.

We are divided into four large sections of 90 students each. Each large section is divided into four small sections of around 22-23 students. I have two classes with my large section, one class with my small section and one other small section out of the large section, and my legal practice with just my small section. You'll get to know your small section at least by name, I don't think it's necessary to be stuck with them. From what I understand, the dynamics vary quite a bit but small sections either tend to be really tight or really loose. Mine's loose, we don't spend that much time together as a whole section outside of class, though there are definitely cliques within my small section that do hang out a lot. You do end up getting to know most people in your large section (I know about 3/4 of them now).

Because roughly 60% of the kids live in the law quad, socializing is relatively easy and not limited in anyway to your small or large section. In fact I think most people mingle in social groups that cross section lines. This is, I think, a good thing.

Your legal practice professor by design is really accessible. If you crave that relationship, it's available.

Your relationship with your other professors tends to vary a lot depending on the personality of the professor. Professors do take the time to learn everyone's names within the first couple months, or at least they will know that you are in their class. If you talk a lot in class or have interesting shit to say, your professor is more likely to know who you are (duh). There are some who reputedly learn everyone's names before the first day of class. Seats are fixed, as in wherever you sit the first day, becomes your seat for the rest of the term. The professors then draw up seating charts with little pictures, and they use that to call on you. All of my professors do stick around after class if you have questions, etc. They are also very responsive to emails. It's not unheard of to go get drinks/coffee with professors. Some of them are really open to the idea, some are not (not correlated with their prestige...they are all insanely accomplished in their respective fields anyway).

So basically if you want to get to know your professors, you can, if you want to be lost in the crowd, you can definitely pull that off too, it's really up to you. I came from a big state school and definitely noticed a difference in interaction with professors (90 is small for me).

There are also a lot of other opportunities to get to know professors, brown bag lunches, presentations, lectures outside of regular class, etc.

[Bronte]

You mention that a large percentage of students live on the law quad. It sounds like you live off-campus, but as far as you can tell, how is the law quad? Personally, I'm not a big fan of dorms.

Also, what's the story with football tickets? How's the law schools priority?

Thanks, and feel free to let me know of either of these have been answered already.

[rondemarino]

Anyone live in the Northwood apartments? If so, do you drive/bike/take the bus to class?

[rondemarino]

Also, how much do you hate summer starters?

More importantly, of the people who Summer Start, do you know anyone who took a semester off before graduation to do something career related?

[kurama20]

How "tough" would you say 1L year is at Michigan? Obviously you've only been there for a few months but can you give us your best estimate?

[malcolminthemiddle]

Yah I'd say roughly 50% of 1Ls live in the law quad. But most 2Ls and 3Ls live off campus (voluntarily). That statistic hides the fact that many 1Ls are married or live with SOs. So I think probably closer to 3/4s of the single 1Ls live in the law quad.

The Law quad is actually really nice. everyone gets their own room, most have singles but there are a few double suites where you have your own bedroom but you share a living room with one other. The rooms have sinks. I think each floor is single sex. I don't believe there is significant bathroom constraints and I believe it's all kept fairly clean. The rooms are actually generally fairly spacious. Each room has a different floor plan (each building is slightly different, it's all very artsy). Some people get more square footage than others, it's the luck of the draw. You also get to use 75 year old furniture, which is kinda cool.

The included meal plan covers 13 meals a week I think, no breakfast. You have to eat within a 2 hour window for each meal (no midnight snack runs unfortunately). The food is okay. People get bored of it pretty quickly but it's nice to be able to mingle with classmates during meals. The dining room is very stately, much like the rest of the quad.

Advantages:

- convenience (proximity, meals covered, nine month lease).
- a certain level of prestige that comes with living in the quad (when interacting with undergrads).
- easier to socialize, you wont miss out on things.
- that extends to study groups also.
- winters

Disadvantages

- 24 hours of the law school experience 7 days a week, no break.
- no kitchen, food gets old fasts.
- feels like you're an undergrad again.

Living off campus isn't a big deal. I mean pretty much all 2Ls and 3Ls do anyway. there is plenty of cheap housing (houses converted into apartments and actual apartment buildings) around the school within 5-10 minute walk. Some people also choose to live really far away (15-20 car ride), the advantage being you get a lot of space for really cheap, but it's a pain, you have to plan for each day and pack everything you need, no going back home during breaks between class.

Take home: I would say if you don't like dorm living, don't even try the law quad.

------------------

Everyone who wants a football season ticket gets one. I recommend getting them because you wont lose any money even if you end up going to like one game. In fact you will likely make money. The law school gets it's own section so you will be with people you know.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Also, how much do you hate summer starters?

More importantly, of the people who Summer Start, do you know anyone who took a semester off before graduation to do something career related?

Yes you are required to hate summer starters to some degree, they are pretty full of themselves... totally jaded after just a semester of class.

That being said, they aren't that isolated. They tend to be heavily involved in clubs, so you do run into a fair number of them. After 1L, the distinction is blurred anyway.

[malcolminthemiddle]

How "tough" would you say 1L year is at Michigan? Obviously you've only been there for a few months but can you give us your best estimate?

It's really an individual thing.

I would say it's a function of the following in order of importance:

1) Your general level of paranoia (percentile)
2) Work ethic (Ratio of time spent on school work to time spent trying to do school work)
3) Gunner (boolean)
4) Smartness (IQ^2), by which I mean how smart you are at finding what works for you, not intelligence.
5) Stress (catch all term)

Any efforts to quantify the above variables will fail as Michigan professors love to point out whenever some bs law and econ formula pops up.

Personally, it hasn't been that bad. But then I don't think I am doing enough (which fits into variable #1), so don't take my word for it. I wont know for sure till grades come out. It's really hard to know how you are doing relative to others, I would say I am probably at the median somewhere. I am not gunning for the top spot but I know lots of people who are and put in the work required but still find time to socialize etc. First few weeks are hard because it takes a while to get into the swing of things. You really can't prepare for the amount of reading. By the second month, I had it down to about 3-4 hours outside of class each day with weekends largely free. November, all hell breaks loose. But it's not as bad as people made it seem coming in.

[Alexandria]

Anyone live in the Northwood apartments? If so, do you drive/bike/take the bus to class?

I have a friend who graduated last year who lived in Northwood. It was free for him bc his wife worked in the office. But it took him nearly an hour door to door to get to school, between walking to the bus stop, waiting for the bus, riding, and walking from where it dropped him off to school.

[Amelie]

Would you say that a 1L is socially disadvantaged if they don't live in the law quad? I can't really imagine going without a kitchen.

[Alexandria]

Would you say that a 1L is socially disadvantaged if they don't live in the law quad? I can't really imagine going without a kitchen.

I wouldn't say disadvantaged, but it is clearly a different social experience. You still have tons of opportunities to meet people, go out with them, etc. (esp. if you do MAP... great way to meet people from other sections early on). But obviously you're not living with them, eating meals in the dining hall together, hanging out in the basement rec room, etc.

Lots and lots and lots of 1Ls don't live in the Lawyer's Club, though... it's not a unique situation.

[awesomepossum]

Would you say that a 1L is socially disadvantaged if they don't live in the law quad? I can't really imagine going without a kitchen.

Most social events get spread through facebook events or just word of mouth anyway. The limiting factor for being 'social' is usually how much time you want to devote to it anyway. There are usually more social things going on than any student who wants to actually pass classes could possibly do.

Like Alexandria said, there's obviously a difference when you consider folks who live at the law school eat together and are neighbors.

I personally lived at an off campus apartment and didn't feel socially disadvantaged. If you're really worried about that I suggest you do MAP. The people that I know best to this day are folks I met at MAP.

[ankit]

1) Michigan seems to have a substantial number of clinics. Which one would you say is the most sought after amongst students?
2) How would you rate the international & comparative law program and other opportunities relating to international law?

Thanks for taking these questions, these threads are really helpful!

[rondemarino]

What the hell is MAP?

[awesomepossum]

What the hell is MAP?

it's an optional "pre-orientation" program. You have to register for it and space is limited but housing at a hotel is provided by the school and it's a pretty good time. It's probably also the most drinking you'll ever do in a one week period at law school. It's a good way to get to know people before school starts.

[Bronte]

What the hell is MAP?

it's an optional "pre-orientation" program. You have to register for it and space is limited but housing at a hotel is provided by the school and it's a pretty good time. It's probably also the most drinking you'll ever do in a one week period at law school. It's a good way to get to know people before school starts.

Duly noted. I'm surprised no one has asked this yet (or at least I missed it): How's the job situation looking? OCI? I know you're still a 1L, but are people with a lot of debt regretting their decision? Any insight would be awesome.

[Alexandria]

What the hell is MAP?

it's an optional "pre-orientation" program. You have to register for it and space is limited but housing at a hotel is provided by the school and it's a pretty good time. It's probably also the most drinking you'll ever do in a one week period at law school. It's a good way to get to know people before school starts.

Duly noted. I'm surprised no one has asked this yet (or at least I missed it): How's the job situation looking? OCI? I know you're still a 1L, but are people with a lot of debt regretting their decision? Any insight would be awesome.

He's actually a 2L (so hopefully he'll respond, bc he's in the best position to), and I'm a 3L. I get the sense that it was feast or famine for this year's 2Ls... people tended to get numerous callbacks offers or none. For 3Ls, it's hard to say for any but my close friends, because you don't exactly what to go around asking people if they got offers. But, yeah, there is definitely an unusually large number of people who got no-offered and are now searching for something to do next year.

[Alexandria]

Btw, I don't think my friends without jobs regret coming to law school/the debt. It's too early for that, I suppose. It's not to say that the job hunt isn't stressful, but they still have optimism that they will eventually find something and go on to have great legal careers. And in the case of one of my friends, I think being no-offered actually helped make her feel freer to find something she'd enjoy more than firm life.

[bighead715]

A/S/L?

23/M/Ann Arbor

Do not want.

i lol'ed

[awesomepossum]

What the hell is MAP?

it's an optional "pre-orientation" program. You have to register for it and space is limited but housing at a hotel is provided by the school and it's a pretty good time. It's probably also the most drinking you'll ever do in a one week period at law school. It's a good way to get to know people before school starts.

Duly noted. I'm surprised no one has asked this yet (or at least I missed it): How's the job situation looking? OCI? I know you're still a 1L, but are people with a lot of debt regretting their decision? Any insight would be awesome.

Actually I've been surprised at how well things have turned out. For some people it's certainly been nerve wracking since some firms have really taken their time. At this point though, I personally don't know many (any actually) 2Ls looking for firm jobs that don't have one. I actually know more 3Ls who were no-offered that don't have jobs than 2Ls. Obviously this isn't statistical information about the state of things overall though.

[rondemarino]

Anyone one know if its possible for Summer Starters to finish the first year coursework in just two semesters (summer+fall) or (summer+spring)? 18 credits in a semester, with 4 doctrinal classes probably sucks, but does anyone do it?

[awesomepossum]

Anyone one know if its possible for Summer Starters to finish the first year coursework in just two semesters (summer+fall) or (summer+spring)? 18 credits in a semester, with 4 doctrinal classes probably sucks, but does anyone do it?

Your schedule is set so your 1L classes are distributed in the 3 semesterw. So the answer would be no.

[rondemarino]

Anyone one know if its possible for Summer Starters to finish the first year coursework in just two semesters (summer+fall) or (summer+spring)? 18 credits in a semester, with 4 doctrinal classes probably sucks, but does anyone do it?

Your schedule is set so your 1L classes are distributed in the 3 semesterw. So the answer would be no.

So that rules out transferring or taking a semester off?

Any idea on how many 1L classes are left for the winter?

[awesomepossum]

Anyone one know if its possible for Summer Starters to finish the first year coursework in just two semesters (summer+fall) or (summer+spring)? 18 credits in a semester, with 4 doctrinal classes probably sucks, but does anyone do it?

Your schedule is set so your 1L classes are distributed in the 3 semesterw. So the answer would be no.

So that rules out transferring or taking a semester off?

Any idea on how many 1L classes are left for the winter?

You probably couldn't take a semester off as a 1L. For many schools I think it's very difficult to transfer out if you do summer because schools have limits on the credits can have already taken.

This year summer starters have 1 doctrinal class left for the winter semester.

[rondemarino]

Anyone one know if its possible for Summer Starters to finish the first year coursework in just two semesters (summer+fall) or (summer+spring)? 18 credits in a semester, with 4 doctrinal classes probably sucks, but does anyone do it?

Your schedule is set so your 1L classes are distributed in the 3 semesterw. So the answer would be no.

So that rules out transferring or taking a semester off?

Any idea on how many 1L classes are left for the winter?

You probably couldn't take a semester off as a 1L. For many schools I think it's very difficult to transfer out if you do summer because schools have limits on the credits can have already taken.

This year summer starters have 1 doctrinal class left for the winter semester.

Thanks. This is good to know. I am going to need to take 3-4 months for family reasons, which I will probably have do this summer, although taking this time off in the winter of 2011 sounded much more appealing.