Southwestern Law

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usrname4
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby usrname4 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:43 am

Thanks again for all the info... I will be sure to come back to this thread when more questions come up. Nothing like getting real information from actual students.

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1WingedAngel
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby 1WingedAngel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:42 am

1) How is it like living around the campus, or in that area of LA? Info regarding rent prices, neighborhoods, congestion, etc would be great. I live in Orange County, and if I decide to attend, I'll have to decide between enduring the grueling commute or enduring living in Ktown.

2) LSN says SW's OCIs have 14 firms. This worries me. Could you address this?

3) Is the student body more collegial and laid back, or fiercely competitive? Do the students and the school lean towards liberal, conservative, or is it too hard to even recognize any ideological tendency?

4) TSL's profile on SW insinuates that your grading curve and curriculum are harsher than average. Do you agree?

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chango
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby chango » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:29 am

1WingedAngel wrote:1) How is it like living around the campus, or in that area of LA? Info regarding rent prices, neighborhoods, congestion, etc would be great. I live in Orange County, and if I decide to attend, I'll have to decide between enduring the grueling commute or enduring living in Ktown.

2) LSN says SW's OCIs have 14 firms. This worries me. Could you address this?

3) Is the student body more collegial and laid back, or fiercely competitive? Do the students and the school lean towards liberal, conservative, or is it too hard to even recognize any ideological tendency?

4) TSL's profile on SW insinuates that your grading curve and curriculum are harsher than average. Do you agree?



I can address your first point, and I'll defer to a current student on the other three.

First, I guess I'm a bit puzzled by the "enduring living" part. Why "endure?" I love ktown: it's one of the few LA neighborhoods with a late night scene, it's conveniently located, has fewer traffic nightmares than the west side, lots of good eateries, some nice apartment complexes, or if you're luckier, some craftsman homes which may be renting a room to a student....

But if ktown isn't your cup of tea, you're a 10-15 minute drive or subway ride (i.e. not a grueling commute by any stretch) from Hollywood, Downtown Los Angeles, South Park, Echo Park, Silverlake, or Melrose/Hancock Park (if you can afford it).

Prices vary widely. Craiglslist or similar should give you a good idea (although beware of scammers...if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.)

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chango
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby chango » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:33 am

oh, just realized by "grueling commute" you probably meant from Orange County. If you're committed to staying in Orange County I suppose it could be done, but I'd recommend you take Metrolink/Red Line. At least you can do your reading/work on your laptop during your commute and it wouldn't be entirely wasted time.

Otherwise, there's always Chapman.

But my advice is to move into Los Angeles if at all possible.

Danteshek
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby Danteshek » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:08 pm

1WingedAngel wrote:1) How is it like living around the campus, or in that area of LA? Info regarding rent prices, neighborhoods, congestion, etc would be great. I live in Orange County, and if I decide to attend, I'll have to decide between enduring the grueling commute or enduring living in Ktown.

Don't live in Orange County or Korea Town. First is too far, second is too close. Much better to ride the bus from Miracle Mile or, if you must, ride the Red Line to school. You should not take this decision lightly. If you do not set up your life to help you succeed, your grades WILL suffer (this goes for your personal life too).

2) LSN says SW's OCIs have 14 firms. This worries me. Could you address this?

I don't know the exact number of firms. A lot of the smaller firms that take SW students are probably not listed in that number. If you rank in the top 5%-10% (ideally top 5% + law review) Southwestern will not hold you back at most large firms in LA even if those firms don't come to OCI. That said, most Southwestern students who finish in the top 10% tend to gravitate towards firms that are known to hire top of the class Southwestern students (O'Melveney, Shepard Mullen ...) and those firms tend to come to our OCI program to interview the best students

3) Is the student body more collegial and laid back, or fiercely competitive? Do the students and the school lean towards liberal, conservative, or is it too hard to even recognize any ideological tendency?

You should think of competition as a good thing that will help you reach your potential in law school. If you are going to play, you should play to win. The atmosphere is collegial and I have not seen or heard of any unethical gunner type behavior. If you are really anti-competitive maybe you should go to Stanford.

Ideology in the student body leans liberal but there are definitely exceptions to that rule. I'd say students in law school tend to be smarter on average than at your typical UG, so that usually tends to account for more diversity in considered views


4) TSL's profile on SW insinuates that your grading curve and curriculum are harsher than average. Do you agree?

About average. 1L curve is 2.9 to 3.0. Think of it just as an opportunity to further separate yourself from the pack when you get that 'A' in contracts.


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1WingedAngel
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby 1WingedAngel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:09 pm

Thanks for the quick responses, Chango and Dante. It was very helpful to get your opinions.

Geez D, I was just asking that to get an idea of the student body general personality.

Oh and on Ktown, I do like the area, Chan. Sorry if I didn't explain. It's just that it's not quite my most practical or preferred choice to be living near downtown at the moment for a few complicated reasons, but I'd find a way around those if it's the better choice for success.

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chango
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby chango » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:24 pm

1WingedAngel wrote:Thanks for the quick responses, Chango and Dante. It was very helpful to get your opinions.

Geez D, I was just asking that to get an idea of the student body general personality.

Oh and on Ktown, I do like the area, Chan. Sorry if I didn't explain. It's just that it's not quite my most practical or preferred choice to be living near downtown at the moment for a few complicated reasons, but I'd find a way around those if it's the better choice for success.



Dante's view that (paraphrase) living too close to school is as undesirable as living too far away is a very good point. My hunch is the magic formula is live "too far to walk" but "close enough to bike."

usrname4
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby usrname4 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:25 pm

Hey Dante, another question. What are you planning to do during the summer. I heard Southwestern has a lot of great externship program, do you plan on doing one of those, or something else? Overall, how do students feel about their job prospects during the summers and even after school?

Thank you for all the great information you are providing.

Danteshek
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby Danteshek » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:31 pm

usrname4 wrote:Hey Dante, another question. What are you planning to do during the summer. I heard Southwestern has a lot of great externship program, do you plan on doing one of those, or something else? Overall, how do students feel about their job prospects during the summers and even after school?

Thank you for all the great information you are providing.


My first choice is the honors program at the Securities and Exchange Commission in Washington DC (I have several years industry experience; passed level 2 CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst) exam); straight A's in several accounting classes). If I don't get that I have applied to 1) LA Public Defender; 2) Bet Tzedek and 3) LA District Attorney's office. I have also applied to LA County Office of Independent Review (Sheriff), a couple of Children's Rights groups, US DOJ Environmental; US DOJ Office of Trustee; Equal Opportunity Employment Commission; Department of Labor; California Coastal Commission; US Army JAG (though probably I have a disqualifying condition). I had the externship office send out my resume for federal judicial externships (since my GPA was above 3.5). I may be missing some. I think I've applied to about 20 organizations so far. I haven't had any interviews yet, but they should be forthcoming. Far as I am concerned any of these organizations would be lucky to have me.

usrname4
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby usrname4 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:44 pm

Danteshek wrote:
usrname4 wrote:Hey Dante, another question. What are you planning to do during the summer. I heard Southwestern has a lot of great externship program, do you plan on doing one of those, or something else? Overall, how do students feel about their job prospects during the summers and even after school?

Thank you for all the great information you are providing.


My first choice is the honors program at the Securities and Exchange Commission in Washington DC (I have several years industry experience; passed level 2 CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst) exam); straight A's in several accounting classes). If I don't get that I have applied to 1) LA Public Defender; 2) Bet Tzedek and 3) LA District Attorney's office. I have also applied to LA County Office of Independent Review (Sheriff), a couple of Children's Rights groups, US DOJ Environmental; US DOJ Office of Trustee; Equal Opportunity Employment Commission; Department of Labor; California Coastal Commission; US Army JAG (though probably I have a disqualifying condition). I had the externship office send out my resume for federal judicial externships (since my GPA was above 3.5). I may be missing some. I think I've applied to about 20 organizations so far. I haven't had any interviews yet, but they should be forthcoming. Far as I am concerned any of these organizations would be lucky to have me.


A GPA above 3.5 is very impressive. Well, in that case, they would be lucky to have you!

haylie
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby haylie » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:48 pm

which is better? Cal Western in SD or Southwestern?

I'm afraid that Southwestern is highly populated with better law schools (UCLA, Loyola, Pepperdine, USC, Chapman) and it'll be harder to find jobs.

In SD area, there's just three schools - USD, Cal West, and Thomas Jefferson...

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GATORTIM
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby GATORTIM » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:51 pm

haylie wrote:which is better? Cal Western in SD or Southwestern?

I'm afraid that Southwestern is highly populated with better law schools (UCLA, Loyola, Pepperdine, USC, Chapman) and it'll be harder to find jobs.

In SD area, there's just three schools - USD, Cal West, and Thomas Jefferson...


I have given this a lot of thought. Here's my take fwiw...

San Diego, being an extremely desireable place to live, is going to draw a lot of competition from not only LA, NorCal and T-1's nationwide. I get the feeling that Southwestern, primarily due to it's large alumni based, would be a MUCH better decision (even for San Diego) than would Cal Western.

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General Tso
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:53 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
haylie wrote:which is better? Cal Western in SD or Southwestern?

I'm afraid that Southwestern is highly populated with better law schools (UCLA, Loyola, Pepperdine, USC, Chapman) and it'll be harder to find jobs.

In SD area, there's just three schools - USD, Cal West, and Thomas Jefferson...


I have given this a lot of thought. Here's my take fwiw...

San Diego, being an extremely desireable place to live, is going to draw a lot of competition from not only LA, NorCal and T-1's nationwide. I get the feeling that Southwestern, primarily due to it's large alumni based, would be a MUCH better decision (even for San Diego) than would Cal Western.


Didn't you just say the other day that there were no differences between any schools outside the T20?

As to the assertion that SW has some kind of alumni status in San Diego, you are dead wrong:
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

Danteshek
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby Danteshek » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:12 pm

I think this is probably a wash. I prefer Southwestern because it is in a bigger legal market and I think this translates into more opportunities. Sure we compete with other schools, but I don't believe for one minute that any of those schools are "better."

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GATORTIM
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby GATORTIM » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:12 pm

swheat wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
haylie wrote:which is better? Cal Western in SD or Southwestern?

I'm afraid that Southwestern is highly populated with better law schools (UCLA, Loyola, Pepperdine, USC, Chapman) and it'll be harder to find jobs.

In SD area, there's just three schools - USD, Cal West, and Thomas Jefferson...


I have given this a lot of thought. Here's my take fwiw...

San Diego, being an extremely desireable place to live, is going to draw a lot of competition from not only LA, NorCal and T-1's nationwide. I get the feeling that Southwestern, primarily due to it's large alumni based, would be a MUCH better decision (even for San Diego) than would Cal Western.


Didn't you just say the other day that there were no differences between any schools outside the T20?

As to the assertion that SW has some kind of alumni status in San Diego, you are dead wrong:
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5


That's a pretty little graph...

You are misremembering my friend...find a quote (w/o editing it to satisfy your point) where I stated there is no difference between schools outside of the top 20. In the other post I was discussing a specific situation and I do think there are differences between schools; however, the difference between say a #30 and #50 is marginal at best. If one wanted to practice in region X (located near the #50), but was admitted to a #30 in a different state/region, I don't think it would make sense to immediately take the later simply b/c of the ranking. This was my position in the other thread....

If you notice that my post was just "my take" on the haylie question. Never did I say go to Southwestern at all cost and if you go to CW, you will never find employment. If you read her question (I assure you RC will be important in LS), she didn't ask about either schools standing in San Diego, but was simply asking what school is better given their location. I stand by my BELIEF that Southwestern is a better option for SoCal in general, regardless of it's proximity to USC, UCLA and Loyola.

edit, notice SW versus CW in these other California locales:
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.php?mi=lawschool&ma=city&miv=&mav=los+angeles&fn=li&li=20&g=2&pp=5

http://californiabar.globl.org/report.php?mi=lawschool&ma=city&miv=&mav=laguna+beach&fn=li&li=20&g=2&pp=5

http://californiabar.globl.org/report.php?mi=lawschool&ma=city&miv=&mav=irvine&fn=li&li=20&g=2&pp=5

youve been served, swheat...by your own data

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General Tso
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:57 pm

I understand her post was general, but your post was San Diego-specific. I would also recommend SW over Cal Western generally speaking. The thing about CA schools is that most of them do not have state-wide mobility, which is weird to think about. Many of them do not even have LA to SD mobility, as you can see with these 2 schools.

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chango
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby chango » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:24 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
haylie wrote:which is better? Cal Western in SD or Southwestern?

I'm afraid that Southwestern is highly populated with better law schools (UCLA, Loyola, Pepperdine, USC, Chapman) and it'll be harder to find jobs.

In SD area, there's just three schools - USD, Cal West, and Thomas Jefferson...


I have given this a lot of thought. Here's my take fwiw...

San Diego, being an extremely desireable place to live, is going to draw a lot of competition from not only LA, NorCal and T-1's nationwide. I get the feeling that Southwestern, primarily due to it's large alumni based, would be a MUCH better decision (even for San Diego) than would Cal Western.



One of the only things that makes San Diego an extremely desirable place to live is the weather. Extremely desirable? Come on now. San Diego ranks somewhere in the vicinity of Calgary, San Salvador and Islamabad.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby GATORTIM » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:41 pm

chango wrote:One of the only things that makes San Diego an extremely desirable place to live is the weather. Extremely desirable? Come on now. San Diego ranks somewhere in the vicinity of Calgary, San Salvador and Islamabad.


you are joking, right? Downtown scene is ridic (nightlife, Petco park, chargers), PB isnt too shabby either and the beaches are not too shabby. COL is a freaking joke though.

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chango
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby chango » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:02 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
chango wrote:One of the only things that makes San Diego an extremely desirable place to live is the weather. Extremely desirable? Come on now. San Diego ranks somewhere in the vicinity of Calgary, San Salvador and Islamabad.


you are joking, right? Downtown scene is ridic (nightlife, Petco park, chargers), PB isnt too shabby either and the beaches are not too shabby. COL is a freaking joke though.



No joke
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2008t.html

(also, did you just type "ridic" with a straight face? Please tell me there was at least an ironic eyebrow raise.)

GalvGuy
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby GalvGuy » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:39 pm

Hello,

I am newly registered, so forgive me for 'jumping right in.'

I am seriously considering SW for the SCALE program.

My ug GPA is 3.74, LSAT 161, and I have an MA from Oxford.

I feel I would be competitive, and I am interested in SCALE for the pace and in SW for the practicalities of the course.

I am also, obviously, interested in SW for financial aid.

My question is, should I wait until next autumn to apply to ensure greater probability of available fin aid, or would applying mid-to-late Feb still give me a good chance of receiving a substantial grant or scholarship. With timelines and working full time, it would not be likely that I could write a competitive scholarship app, so I would rely on automatic grants.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. The only other school I am considering in the SoCal region is USD (as they have a notoriously generous fin aid office, haha).

Many thanks!

Danteshek
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby Danteshek » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:10 pm

Hi
Apply and see what they offer you. You'll probably hear very quickly. You can always reapply the following year if the package they offer you is not what you wanted.
I think you still have a good shot at a Wildman if you get your application in immediately and your interview with Prof. Rolnick goes well. But maybe you'll decide that graduating a year earlie is worth the foregone scholarship money...
Good luck!
D

itforthat
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby itforthat » Thu May 13, 2010 8:28 pm

Yesterday my status at Southwestern said, reviewing application as of 4/12/2010. Today, it says nothing at all. But anyway...

earldeadsby
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby earldeadsby » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:55 pm

I just got my October LSAT score that was pretty low (152) and I already have a low GPA (2.84). I'm getting ready to re-take the LSAT in December, but wondered if anyone had an opinion as to my chances into SWL with my current numbers. Any idea?

I have fairly strong softs: creative/diverse PS, excellent LOR, 5 years work experience after udergrad, and current manager of tax team at major investment bank.

Thanks for your help.

Danteshek
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby Danteshek » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:49 pm

earldeadsby wrote:I just got my October LSAT score that was pretty low (152) and I already have a low GPA (2.84). I'm getting ready to re-take the LSAT in December, but wondered if anyone had an opinion as to my chances into SWL with my current numbers. Any idea?

I have fairly strong softs: creative/diverse PS, excellent LOR, 5 years work experience after udergrad, and current manager of tax team at major investment bank.

Thanks for your help.


Yeah, you're not getting in. Sorry.

earldeadsby
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Re: Southwestern Law

Postby earldeadsby » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:13 pm

Not a problem, I really appreciate your candor. I'm already studying again so hopefully if I crack the 160 range, I'll be somewhat of a contender.

Thanks again.




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