Southwestern Law

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Southwestern Law

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:33 pm

Wrong. I'm operating with the knowledge that naive kids believe that "education is an instrument of social mobility" and they will jump at a chance to take on mountains of debt under that belief.

Danteshek
Posts: 2172
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: Southwestern Law

Postby Danteshek » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:44 pm

timbs4339 wrote:Wrong. I'm operating with the knowledge that naive kids believe that "education is an instrument of social mobility" and they will jump at a chance to take on mountains of debt under that belief.


I agree. Many naive K-JDs are running around treating law school like college 2.0. However, you should distinguish between those who can afford it, and those who can't (after factoring scholarships, family help etc). We can disagree about how many students belong to each respective category. My experience is that in large wealthy cities like Los Angeles, there are more members of the first category than meets the eye (People are VERY careful about divulging how they are actually financing their education for fear of being judged a "rich kid.") My view is that members of the second category should not splurge on a law degree at anything close to sticker. But if they do, I don't feel particularly sorry for them. They are adults and adults are entitled to make adult mistakes. It's like buying a car you can't afford.

FranklinSims
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: Southwestern Law

Postby FranklinSims » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:18 pm

Danteshek wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Wrong. I'm operating with the knowledge that naive kids believe that "education is an instrument of social mobility" and they will jump at a chance to take on mountains of debt under that belief.


I agree. Many naive K-JDs are running around treating law school like college 2.0. However, you should distinguish between those who can afford it, and those who can't (after factoring scholarships, family help etc). We can disagree about how many students belong to each respective category. My experience is that in large wealthy cities like Los Angeles, there are more members of the first category than meets the eye (People are VERY careful about divulging how they are actually financing their education for fear of being judged a "rich kid.") My view is that members of the second category should not splurge on a law degree at anything close to sticker. But if they do, I don't feel particularly sorry for them. They are adults and adults are entitled to make adult mistakes. It's like buying a car you can't afford.


Your point about there being affluent students at lower tier law schools who can "afford" to (or better said their parents can afford it) take on the sticker is very astute. I know it to be true from personal experience. In the summer I prepare 0L's for law school with grant funding to my non-profit. However, I am often sought out by more affluent students (often their parents call) to tutor them privately during the fall and spring semester of their 1L year. Some times the expectation is to transfer but most of the time it is just to assure that the student has a solid 1L performance. Most of these students live on the elite neighborhoods on the West side and at least one of their parents is a Doctor/Lawyer/works in Banking and can afford the services. On top of the sticker for law school these students (and their parents) see my services as an investment and a security on the investment (or the sticker) of the lower tier law school. Taking on more debt is just not an option for most students (and surely was not for me) but for more affluent students a lower tier law school is not necessarily a bad idea and securing a place at the top of your class is doesn't hurt either.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Southwestern Law

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:27 am

Danteshek wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Wrong. I'm operating with the knowledge that naive kids believe that "education is an instrument of social mobility" and they will jump at a chance to take on mountains of debt under that belief.


I agree. Many naive K-JDs are running around treating law school like college 2.0. However, you should distinguish between those who can afford it, and those who can't (after factoring scholarships, family help etc). We can disagree about how many students belong to each respective category. My experience is that in large wealthy cities like Los Angeles, there are more members of the first category than meets the eye (People are VERY careful about divulging how they are actually financing their education for fear of being judged a "rich kid.") My view is that members of the second category should not splurge on a law degree at anything close to sticker. But if they do, I don't feel particularly sorry for them. They are adults and adults are entitled to make adult mistakes. It's like buying a car you can't afford.


Well, technically everybody can afford it, since the federal government will give people the full price of their education. I disagree with the last half of your post for a number of reasons. But if someone's family truly has the money (and I mean isn't pulling from a HELC or a 401K) and they want to go, I say let the law schools keep that revenue stream.

Danteshek
Posts: 2172
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: Southwestern Law

Postby Danteshek » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:32 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Wrong. I'm operating with the knowledge that naive kids believe that "education is an instrument of social mobility" and they will jump at a chance to take on mountains of debt under that belief.


I agree. Many naive K-JDs are running around treating law school like college 2.0. However, you should distinguish between those who can afford it, and those who can't (after factoring scholarships, family help etc). We can disagree about how many students belong to each respective category. My experience is that in large wealthy cities like Los Angeles, there are more members of the first category than meets the eye (People are VERY careful about divulging how they are actually financing their education for fear of being judged a "rich kid.") My view is that members of the second category should not splurge on a law degree at anything close to sticker. But if they do, I don't feel particularly sorry for them. They are adults and adults are entitled to make adult mistakes. It's like buying a car you can't afford.


Well, technically everybody can afford it, since the federal government will give people the full price of their education. I disagree with the last half of your post for a number of reasons. But if someone's family truly has the money (and I mean isn't pulling from a HELC or a 401K) and they want to go, I say let the law schools keep that revenue stream.


A person's willingness to assume debt is often motivated by family assets that will eventually flow their way. Moreover, people who grew up comfortably are less averse to borrowing money at favorable terms.

Shema
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:14 am

Re: Southwestern Law

Postby Shema » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:08 pm


f174635
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:25 am

Re: Southwestern Law

Postby f174635 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:10 am

Danteshek wrote:
North wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:I thought Danteshek was a Loyola grad.

Looks like he transferred.

:|


I remember Southwestern fondly. The 1L professors were great. Unfortunately, the faculty "bench" at SW is not very deep. With the exception of the entertainment law (and to a lesser extent criminal law) curriculum, the upper level offerings are rather unimpressive. (This applies to all small law schools to a greater or lesser extent.)

Early on I recognized that I was primarily interested in business/business law and decided to leave.

I've now attended law school at Southwestern (1L), Loyola (2L, 3L), and Georgetown (LLM-Securities and Financial Regulation). From fall 2013 to summer 2015 I will be in Russia on a fellowship studying Public Law at Higher School of Economics.

Just remember, it's all about the journey, not the destination... Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more...



It's funny when you say "it's all about the journey, not the destination..." Because what I was told while I was in law school was to "keep your eyes on the prize", "have clear goals" and other vapid cliches.

I could be wrong but I am guessing this is your story:

You weren't top 10% at SW but just good enough to transfer to Loyola.
You didn't graduate with latin honors at LLS so you probably didn't get a job with a decent firm at OCI. Don't worry - lots of good students at LLS will graduate unemployed. But your grades were good enough to land you a spot at Georgetown's LLM program.
You didn't land a job with Biglaw nor with the SEC. So instead of working for a small securities lawyer, you opted to go to Russia for two years.

I'm curious - with all of your pontifications here, I assume you don't have a large amount of debt and you plan to pay it all back, right? Or are you going to stay in Russia or live off IBR?

Danteshek
Posts: 2172
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: Southwestern Law

Postby Danteshek » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:00 am

Hi. I was top 25% at Loyola + LR and graduated with distinction from Georgetown. The fellowship is really a lot of money. And I have virtually no expenses. The Russian government gave me a full scholarship and free housing. I'm doing fine financially.

Regards.




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