Duke 1L, hanging out on the internet Forum

[nucat]

I want to get a feel for how much practical experience one might be able to get in while at Duke Law. So, I have two sets of questions...

Can you speak to how the clinics work there? Does everyone who wants a clinic get one? Their first choice? Is it possible to do more than one?

How frequently are students able to work part time with firms as 2Ls and 3Ls? Does it only happen for people who summer in NC? Are there many opportunities on campus for research assistantships?

Thanks for answering questions! I'm super excited about Duke.

[Zara]

Duke is the only school I've heard from so far, but I am really interested in the school so i have a few questions:

1) what are the total monthly expenses for the average duke law student? I would like to live alone in a studio or a 1 BR if I can afford it since I have been living alone for the last couple of years and have gotten very used to it.

2) Also on the subject of finances, do many people Work While Going to Law School at duke? not full time or anything but maybe a few hours on the weekend or something like that?

3) Are there any good japanese restaurants or japanese grocery stores nearby?

thanks!

[aer]

Duke is the only school I've heard from so far, but I am really interested in the school so i have a few questions:

1) what are the total monthly expenses for the average duke law student? I would like to live alone in a studio or a 1 BR if I can afford it since I have been living alone for the last couple of years and have gotten very used to it.

2) Also on the subject of finances, do many people work while going to law school at duke? not full time or anything but maybe a few hours on the weekend or something like that?

3) Are there any good japanese restaurants or japanese grocery stores nearby?

thanks!

1. I'm not sure what the average monthly expenses are, it varies a lot based off of how often you go out, how much you drink, the quality of your drinks and what your other extracurricular activities are. I've provided links to the two most popular apartment complexes for law students. I know that Alexan Place discounts the rent for Duke students. My apartment is about $200 a month than what is listed.

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2. If you want to work 1L year you have to get special permission, I think from the Dean. The ABA limits how many hours a 1L can work anyways, so this is a fairly common restriction. Regardless of where you end up, I would not recommend working your 1L year. Grades matter so you are going to be spending a lot of time studying and you don't want to have the little free time you taken up with a job.

3. I know there are some sushi restaurants in Durham. I don't eat it enough to tell you how good they are. I don't know about Japanese grocery stores, but there are Asian ones if that helps.

[insidethetwenty]

I saw this on another school's Q's thread and thought I'd ask it here.

Describe your typical day at Duke. How much do you read? When do you do your reading? How much time are you in class? When do you arrive/leave school? That sort of stuff...

Thanks in advance!

[jrstephens1991]

How does Duke hold up with BigLaw in cities like NYC, D.C., Chicago, or LA as opposed to its peers such as Cornell, USC, or Georgetown?

[prezidentv8]

I saw this on another school's Q's thread and thought I'd ask it here.

Describe your typical day at Duke.

For me personally, it's basically catch a ride to school, go to class, read and eat in between classes, do any extracurricular stuff (lectures, student orgs., conferences, etc.) that might be scheduled and that I have an interest in, then go home and read a little more.

How much do you read?

Not as much as you would think, but still a lot. Particular professors (Reichman) assign significantly more, but nothing you won't be able to handle.

When do you do your reading?

Whenever I have time. Some at school, some at home.

How much time are you in class?

Depends on the day. Friday is one class at 11:00 but my Thursday is 8:30-2:30 with a lunch break. Generally, it's spread fairly evenly over the week.

When do you arrive/leave school?

Whenever I can get a ride, but I try to get there by 8:15 and leave at 3:00. I am generally unsuccessful.

That sort of stuff...

Thanks in advance!

No prob. Others might have more to say though.

[prezidentv8]

How does Duke hold up with BigLaw in cities like NYC, D.C., Chicago, or LA as opposed to its peers such as Cornell, USC, or Georgetown?

Swimmingly.

[Bosque]

How does Duke hold up with BigLaw in cities like NYC, D.C., Chicago, or LA as opposed to its peers such as Cornell, USC, or Georgetown?

Swimmingly.

I was not aware Cornell, USC, and Georgetown were our peers. Our peers are Michigan, Northwestern, and UVA (maybe Georgetown too).

And we place just fine with our peers.

[jrstephens1991]

How does Duke hold up with BigLaw in cities like NYC, D.C., Chicago, or LA as opposed to its peers such as Cornell, USC, or Georgetown?

Swimmingly.

I was not aware Cornell, USC, and Georgetown were our peers. Our peers are Michigan, Northwestern, and UVA (maybe Georgetown too).

And we place just fine with our peers.

Thanks.

[rundoxierun]

I have a few questions...

1) Do you have any idea how JD/MA admissions work?? Does anyone ever get accepted into the Law School but not the MA program??

Im applying next cycle and interested in a JD/MA in environmental studies. I should have decent to good qualifications for the Law school but I dont really have anything that makes me especially attractive for the MA.

2) How does financing for that summer session work?

Are we eligible to finance that through GradPLUS, Stafford, etc.??

3)Are there a decent number of job opportunities nearby for those with a SO making the move with them?

My current gf may be moving to law school with me and will be needing a job. She will be graduating next year with a degree in music. Any decent sized arts organizations nearby?

[aer]

I have a few questions...

1) Do you have any idea how JD/MA admissions work?? Does anyone ever get accepted into the Law School but not the MA program??

Im applying next cycle and interested in a JD/MA in environmental studies. I should have decent to good qualifications for the Law school but I dont really have anything that makes me especially attractive for the MA.

2) How does financing for that summer session work?

Are we eligible to finance that through GradPLUS, Stafford, etc.??

3)Are there a decent number of job opportunities nearby for those with a SO making the move with them?

My current gf may be moving to law school with me and will be needing a job. She will be graduating next year with a degree in music. Any decent sized arts organizations nearby?

1. To apply for a JD/MA all you have to do is apply to the law school as normal, check a box on the form and write a paragraph about why you want to do the masters program. I have not heard of anyone being rejected from the second program, but I guess it is possible. I'm currently getting my JD/MA in Environmental Science and Policy. I think the main requirement for the Nic School is that you can give a reason why you want to get the masters.

2. To finance the summer most (all?) of us took out student loans. You are eligible for a certain amount of loans for an academic year. I'm not sure on the exact amount but basically a couple of thousand in perkins (lowest interest rate and interest doesn't accrue while you are in school, this depends on need and are not available for the summer session) some more in subsidized stafford (higher interest rate, no interest while in school) some in unsubsidized stafford (same interest as stafford, but it accrues during school) and then GradPLUS loans (highest interest rate, around 8-9%, interest accrues) until you meet what the school says you need (total cost of attendance-scholarships). The loans go with the previous academic years amount (if you are currently taking out student loans for this year that will decrease the amount of stafford loans you can take out for the summer, if you aren't then you will pretty much be able to take out all stafford). I'm taking out all federal loans, so things might be a little different with private ones.

3. Some people have moved out here with their SOs and I haven't heard about any of them not being able to find a job, but I'm not really sure what there is by way of arts organizations.

[Bosque]

Thanks, I was hoping I wouldn't have to be the one to answer. I know next to nothing about the logistics of summer starting.

[prezidentv8]

Thanks, I was hoping I wouldn't have to be the one to answer. I know next to nothing about the logistics of summer starting.

Yeah I've been pretty TTT about responding to my own thread, so nice job.

[stratocophic]

How does Duke hold up with BigLaw in cities like NYC, D.C., Chicago, or LA as opposed to its peers such as Cornell, USC, or Georgetown?

USC and GTown? Reeeeally?

Blatant anti-T13 trolling

[someones alt]

Since summer jobs in the area seem to be unlikely, what would you recommend in regards to 9 vs 12 month leases?

[insidethetwenty]

Since summer jobs in the area seem to be unlikely, what would you recommend in regards to 9 vs 12 month leases?

Are summer jobs really that unlikely? I thought there were several big firms in Raleigh that at least would hire 2L's.

[Bosque]

Since summer jobs in the area seem to be unlikely, what would you recommend in regards to 9 vs 12 month leases?

Are summer jobs really that unlikely? I thought there were several big firms in Raleigh that at least would hire 2L's.

I wouldn't say they are unlikely. If you are dead set on staying in the area over the summer, I am positive you would be able to do that. Although, you will likely land a job you are happier with if you branch out to other areas.

As to what to do about leases... Most places only sign 12 month leases, so the problem is really moot. If you can find someone who will let you have a 9 month lease and is not going to charge you more for it, go for it. But if you are stuck with a year lease, don't worry.So long as you are ok with undergrads staying in your place over the summer, you shouldn't have any problem subletting. Or you could just accept that you are going to be paying for some pretty expensive storage over the summer, like I am probably going to.

[someones alt]

Since summer jobs in the area seem to be unlikely, what would you recommend in regards to 9 vs 12 month leases?

Are summer jobs really that unlikely? I thought there were several big firms in Raleigh that at least would hire 2L's.

I wouldn't say they are unlikely. If you are dead set on staying in the area over the summer, I am positive you would be able to do that. Although, you will likely land a job you are happier with if you branch out to other areas.

As to what to do about leases... Most places only sign 12 month leases, so the problem is really moot. If you can find someone who will let you have a 9 month lease and is not going to charge you more for it, go for it. But if you are stuck with a year lease, don't worry.So long as you are ok with undergrads staying in your place over the summer, you shouldn't have any problem subletting. Or you could just accept that you are going to be paying for some pretty expensive storage over the summer, like I am probably going to.

Is that manageable on the COL loans, because I imagine paying rent in two different places is pretty expensive given that 1L jobs are mostly unpaid.

Also, insidethetwenty: I didn't mean to say summer jobs are unavailable, only what Bosque pointed out-the more desirable jobs tend to be outside the area

[insidethetwenty]

Since summer jobs in the area seem to be unlikely, what would you recommend in regards to 9 vs 12 month leases?

Are summer jobs really that unlikely? I thought there were several big firms in Raleigh that at least would hire 2L's.

I wouldn't say they are unlikely. If you are dead set on staying in the area over the summer, I am positive you would be able to do that. Although, you will likely land a job you are happier with if you branch out to other areas.

As to what to do about leases... Most places only sign 12 month leases, so the problem is really moot. If you can find someone who will let you have a 9 month lease and is not going to charge you more for it, go for it. But if you are stuck with a year lease, don't worry.So long as you are ok with undergrads staying in your place over the summer, you shouldn't have any problem subletting. Or you could just accept that you are going to be paying for some pretty expensive storage over the summer, like I am probably going to.

Is that manageable on the COL loans, because I imagine paying rent in two different places is pretty expensive given that 1L jobs are mostly unpaid.

Also, insidethetwenty: I didn't mean to say summer jobs are unavailable, only what Bosque pointed out-the more desirable jobs tend to be outside the area

Yeah, I see. It just made me nervous because it's pretty important to me to go to a LS where I can do something in the immediate area. The Raleigh legal market probably isn't all that appealing to most people, so I can see how it wouldn't be the most desirable.

When you said that employment is unlikely, I started to imagine the Austin legal market for UT where everybody wants to work there, most of the lawyers are IP-focused, and the odds of getting an even reasonably-paying (1500-1800/wk) job for 2L was unlikely. At UT everybody pretty much says that the closest you can get is Dallas or Houston for summer work, so I was afraid that at Duke the closest I'd be able to go was Charlotte, which isn't really great for me.

I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you wrong or something.

[sukaili]

Hey I'm thinking about visiting Duke tomorrow and thursday and I'd like to sit in on a class or two. This is the list of classes the admissions office suggests:

Criminal Law (Prof. Jim Coleman) 8:25-9:45 a.m. Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, Room 3041
Civil Procedure (Prof. Tom Metzloff) 8:25-9:45 a.m. Monday/Tuesday/Thursday, Room 3037
Torts (Prof. Doriane Coleman) 11:00 a.m.-12:05 p.m. Tuesday-Friday, Room 3043
Criminal Law (Prof. Sara Sun Beale) 11:00 a.m.-12:05 p.m. Monday-Thursday, Room 3037
Constitutional Law (Prof. Neil Siegel) 11:00 a.m.-12:05 p.m. Monday-Thursday, Room 4042
Constitutional Law (Prof. Neil Siegel) 1:30-2:35 p.m. Monday-Thursday, Room 3037
Torts (Prof. James Boyle) 2:40-4:00 p.m. Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, Room 3043

Are there any classes in that list that I should definitely attend/avoid? Anything else that I should do in my two day visit? Thanks!

[insidethetwenty]

Hey I'm thinking about visiting Duke tomorrow and thursday and I'd like to sit in on a class or two. This is the list of classes the admissions office suggests:

Criminal Law (Prof. Jim Coleman) 8:25-9:45 a.m. Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, Room 3041
Civil Procedure (Prof. Tom Metzloff) 8:25-9:45 a.m. Monday/Tuesday/Thursday, Room 3037
Torts (Prof. Doriane Coleman) 11:00 a.m.-12:05 p.m. Tuesday-Friday, Room 3043
Criminal Law (Prof. Sara Sun Beale) 11:00 a.m.-12:05 p.m. Monday-Thursday, Room 3037
Constitutional Law (Prof. Neil Siegel) 11:00 a.m.-12:05 p.m. Monday-Thursday, Room 4042
Constitutional Law (Prof. Neil Siegel) 1:30-2:35 p.m. Monday-Thursday, Room 3037
Torts (Prof. James Boyle) 2:40-4:00 p.m. Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, Room 3043

Are there any classes in that list that I should definitely attend/avoid? Anything else that I should do in my two day visit? Thanks!

I visited Siegel's ConLaw (the 1:30 section) when I visited. It was pretty awesome. I'm sure the actual students could tell you more, though...

[Bosque]

Hey I'm thinking about visiting Duke tomorrow and thursday and I'd like to sit in on a class or two. This is the list of classes the admissions office suggests:

Criminal Law (Prof. Jim Coleman) 8:25-9:45 a.m. Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, Room 3041
Civil Procedure (Prof. Tom Metzloff) 8:25-9:45 a.m. Monday/Tuesday/Thursday, Room 3037
Torts (Prof. Doriane Coleman) 11:00 a.m.-12:05 p.m. Tuesday-Friday, Room 3043
Criminal Law (Prof. Sara Sun Beale) 11:00 a.m.-12:05 p.m. Monday-Thursday, Room 3037
Constitutional Law (Prof. Neil Siegel) 11:00 a.m.-12:05 p.m. Monday-Thursday, Room 4042
Constitutional Law (Prof. Neil Siegel) 1:30-2:35 p.m. Monday-Thursday, Room 3037
Torts (Prof. James Boyle) 2:40-4:00 p.m. Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, Room 3043

Are there any classes in that list that I should definitely attend/avoid? Anything else that I should do in my two day visit? Thanks!

Mind if I ask, how are you only "thinking" of visiting tomorrow and Thursday? Are you local?

No matter, on to the classes!

My favorite class of all the 1L classes is by a large margin Conlaw, so I would suggest sitting in on that one. Unfortunately for you my professor, Professor Blocher, isn't teaching it this semester. His class was outSTANDing, best one I have ever had in my life. I have heard good things about Siegel though, so you should probably still enjoy yourself. Still, he is no Blocher.

Of the classes on that list I have Metzloff and D. Coleman. If you come to Civil Proceedure on Thursday, we are going to be talking about Experts, and there is a very good chance you will get to see some of My Cousin Vinny. It should be the easiest class for you to follow-Metzloff uses powerpoint a lot, so you will know what we are talking about without having done the reading. Metzloff also speaks clearly and directly, so there shouldn't be a huge vocabulary deficit for you to struggle through like in some classes (Property). Of all the classes on that list, I am betting Metzloff's class is going to be your best chance to actually engage with the material instead of just observing how the class operates. If you can manage to drag yourself into the school by 8:30, I would highly suggest Civ Proc be one of the classes you sit in on.

(Although remember, don't actually try and answer the questions the Professor asks. Never really a good idea when you are visiting.)

As I said, I have Torts with Coleman. She would not be a bad choice to sit in on either. She is a big proponent of IRAC (or CREAC, or FIRAC, or whatever you want to call it), so she breaks down the cases very orderly. She also insists on an accurate statement of the facts when she puts students to the question, so you again should be able to follow what is going on without having read. We are doing causation right now, specifically cause in fact. If you do come, you might want to show up on Thursday. Tomorrow we are dissecting an old english case, so it is not going to be an easy class to understand. Hopefully we will finish it so we don't have a holdover on Thursday.

I don't have Jim Coleman (my Tort's professor's husband if you were wondering), but I do know some about him. I don't really know if his class is going to be the best to sit in on. From what I have heard, he likes to talk about big picture stuff and doesn't really get into the nitty gritty of the law in the cases. I think it would be harder for you to follow along effectively.

I don't know how Beale or Boyle are, so I will leave talking about them to someone who does.

I notice they left off Property with Prof. Reppy, which is my third class this semester. That is probably for the best. We are talking about the Estate system right now (just did the Rule in Shelley's Case and worthier title doctrine today), so there is pretty much zero chance you will understand anything we are doing in that class. Most of the class doesn't understand it. Further, we are doing what Prof. Reppy has been calling "The hardest case in the book" tomorrow and probably Thursday. Reppy is hilarious though, in an old man who says crazy things kind of way. If you do try and sit in just to see how bad law school can get, you should still enjoy yourself. Just realize that it is going to be the perfect storm beforehand.

I tried to give you a broad description of each of the classes. If you want anything more specific about the ones I have, please let me know. I hope you like your visit!

[blahblewblah]

.

[Bosque]

Any idea how easy it is for Dukies to stay in NC Biglaw (Raleigh/Charlotte/Greensboro)? Where do you need to be in the class to get a market paying 2L/after law school gig?

I don't really know. Although, I do gather you have to try a little bit to convince local firms that you are not just using them for a summer job sometimes. They are too used to Duke graduates leaving for NYC, DC, and California.

Whether that translates into the jobs being hard to get, or just that you have to convince them you want to stay and after that they are easy to acquire, I couldn't say.

[trojanfan06]

I am currently trying to decide between Duke and UCLA. I most likely want to end up in California and was wondering if you could talk about Duke's placement in California? Some people have told me go to UCLA since it is top dog in LA market..