UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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chem
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby chem » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:55 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:what's the best place to order Chinese delivery from?


Depends on price or quality. A nice mix of both is Dragon Lady IMO

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Yardbird
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Yardbird » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:39 pm

chem wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:what's the best place to order Chinese delivery from?


Depends on price or quality. A nice mix of both is Dragon Lady IMO
Thanks, I was craving like no tomorrow!

On another note, I got an email about classes for next semester. I'm gonna try and go for the accounting/finance class (if the lottery permits). Any other classes I should look into? I was thinking the Jurisprudence class because I love philosophy, but was unsure if it would "look good" as good for OGI as taking some other more substantive class. Any thoughts? Not gunning, just trying to plan things now while I don't have much to do in my classes.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:36 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:
chem wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:what's the best place to order Chinese delivery from?


Depends on price or quality. A nice mix of both is Dragon Lady IMO
Thanks, I was craving like no tomorrow!

On another note, I got an email about classes for next semester. I'm gonna try and go for the accounting/finance class (if the lottery permits). Any other classes I should look into? I was thinking the Jurisprudence class because I love philosophy, but was unsure if it would "look good" as good for OGI as taking some other more substantive class. Any thoughts? Not gunning, just trying to plan things now while I don't have much to do in my classes.


I think if you want to do litigation, you should try to take Evidence 1L spring. If you want to do Corporate, you should try to take the Acct/Corp Fin course, Corporations, and/or Tax. People say it doesn't matter, and it might really not, but I took classes opposite of what I said I wanted to do and I was asked why I did it more than once in interviews. It's kind of a costless decision to you, since chances are you'll take those courses anyway if you are going into that type of law.

Taking a class like Jurisprudence would be just fine, of course, but best to try to take at least one substantive, relevant course, IMO.

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Yardbird
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Yardbird » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:16 pm

5ky wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:
chem wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:what's the best place to order Chinese delivery from?


Depends on price or quality. A nice mix of both is Dragon Lady IMO
Thanks, I was craving like no tomorrow!

On another note, I got an email about classes for next semester. I'm gonna try and go for the accounting/finance class (if the lottery permits). Any other classes I should look into? I was thinking the Jurisprudence class because I love philosophy, but was unsure if it would "look good" as good for OGI as taking some other more substantive class. Any thoughts? Not gunning, just trying to plan things now while I don't have much to do in my classes.


I think if you want to do litigation, you should try to take Evidence 1L spring. If you want to do Corporate, you should try to take the Acct/Corp Fin course, Corporations, and/or Tax. People say it doesn't matter, and it might really not, but I took classes opposite of what I said I wanted to do and I was asked why I did it more than once in interviews. It's kind of a costless decision to you, since chances are you'll take those courses anyway if you are going into that type of law.

Taking a class like Jurisprudence would be just fine, of course, but best to try to take at least one substantive, relevant course, IMO.
I was thinking of doing Corporations, but wasn't sure whether I should wait to take the Law & Business one in the fall. The non-L&B Corp section open to me with my 1L doctrinal schedule is with Kitch (who I saw was not recommended earlier in this thread). I can also take Fed Income Tax with Hayashi. Other than that, the only other transactional type substantive class I can see is nonprofits with Kordana. Otherwise "non-transactional" classes that look interesting are Legislation with Nelson, Evidence with Mitchell or Brown, and Jurisprudence with Barzun. Thoughts?

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:06 pm

I thought you were looking at Accounting/Corp Finance -- that'd be a good one.

There's just about zero practical difference between the Law & Business sections and the non Law & Business ones, although you are correct that Kitch is not highly recommended.

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Yardbird
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Yardbird » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:59 pm

5ky wrote:I thought you were looking at Accounting/Corp Finance -- that'd be a good one.

There's just about zero practical difference between the Law & Business sections and the non Law & Business ones, although you are correct that Kitch is not highly recommended.
Ah I misread what you wrote, I thought you meant to take a corporate substantive in addition to accounting/corp finance

cfr1225
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby cfr1225 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:53 am

shadowofjazz wrote:I was thinking of doing Corporations, but wasn't sure whether I should wait to take the Law & Business one in the fall. The non-L&B Corp section open to me with my 1L doctrinal schedule is with Kitch (who I saw was not recommended earlier in this thread). I can also take Fed Income Tax with Hayashi. Other than that, the only other transactional type substantive class I can see is nonprofits with Kordana. Otherwise "non-transactional" classes that look interesting are Legislation with Nelson, Evidence with Mitchell or Brown, and Jurisprudence with Barzun. Thoughts?


Hayashi's new, but my friends who have him this semester seem to like him well enough. Evidence with Mitchell would be a very solid choice.

Barzun's lecturing can be a bit all over the place, which might pose a bigger problem than normal in a class like Jurisprudence. As for Legislation with Nelson, I'm guessing there will be quite a few LR gunners in that class. So, to the extent you are concerned about not getting beat up by the curve before OGI, you might want to take a pass on that for now.

sprezz
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby sprezz » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:56 am

taking jurisprudence with someone other than schauer would be a mistake, imo

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anon sequitur
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby anon sequitur » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:27 pm

Is there really any difference between Corporations and Corporations: Law and Business? I've been looking at an SBA outline for the latter and it's been extremely on point for the cases and issues raised in my Corporations class (with Geiss).

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:34 pm

anon sequitur wrote:Is there really any difference between Corporations and Corporations: Law and Business? I've been looking at an SBA outline for the latter and it's been extremely on point for the cases and issues raised in my Corporations class (with Geiss).


5ky wrote:
There's just about zero practical difference between the Law & Business sections and the non Law & Business ones, although you are correct that Kitch is not highly recommended.

blahblewblah
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby blahblewblah » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 am

shadowofjazz wrote:I was thinking of doing Corporations, but wasn't sure whether I should wait to take the Law & Business one in the fall. The non-L&B Corp section open to me with my 1L doctrinal schedule is with Kitch (who I saw was not recommended earlier in this thread). I can also take Fed Income Tax with Hayashi. Other than that, the only other transactional type substantive class I can see is nonprofits with Kordana. Otherwise "non-transactional" classes that look interesting are Legislation with Nelson, Evidence with Mitchell or Brown, and Jurisprudence with Barzun. Thoughts?


Legislation with Nelson was one of the best courses I took in law school and extremely interesting. That said, I would avoid it like the plague 1L spring. It is packed with Law Review kids and the curve will be insanely hard (it is a test where you can write a good exam and get a B). I highly recommend taking it 2L or 3L where grades are less on the line, but I would not take it 1L.

lookingin
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby lookingin » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:57 pm

blahblewblah wrote:...I would avoid it like the plague 1L spring. It is packed with Law Review kids and the curve will be insanely hard (it is a test where you can write a good exam and get a B). I highly recommend taking it 2L or 3L where grades are less on the line, but I would not take it 1L.


In that vein, what classes would you recommend for 1Ls? What are supposed to be the easier classes?

And can people share with me the pros/cons of doing a January course? Is this recommended 1L year or would my time be better spent doing some pro bono, working, etc. instead?

cfr1225
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby cfr1225 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:36 pm

lookingin wrote:
blahblewblah wrote:...I would avoid it like the plague 1L spring. It is packed with Law Review kids and the curve will be insanely hard (it is a test where you can write a good exam and get a B). I highly recommend taking it 2L or 3L where grades are less on the line, but I would not take it 1L.


In that vein, what classes would you recommend for 1Ls? What are supposed to be the easier classes?

And can people share with me the pros/cons of doing a January course? Is this recommended 1L year or would my time be better spent doing some pro bono, working, etc. instead?


Solid choices for 1Ls include Corporations, Corporate Finance/Accounting, Evidence, Fed Tax, Crim Procedure/Investigation - classes that prereqs for clinics or for other courses. I know some friends who got some blowback during OGI for taking fluff seminars, so that might be something to consider.

lookingin
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby lookingin » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:53 pm

cfr1225 wrote:
lookingin wrote:
blahblewblah wrote:...I would avoid it like the plague 1L spring. It is packed with Law Review kids and the curve will be insanely hard (it is a test where you can write a good exam and get a B). I highly recommend taking it 2L or 3L where grades are less on the line, but I would not take it 1L.


In that vein, what classes would you recommend for 1Ls? What are supposed to be the easier classes?

And can people share with me the pros/cons of doing a January course? Is this recommended 1L year or would my time be better spent doing some pro bono, working, etc. instead?


Solid choices for 1Ls include Corporations, Corporate Finance/Accounting, Evidence, Fed Tax, Crim Procedure/Investigation - classes that prereqs for clinics or for other courses. I know some friends who got some blowback during OGI for taking fluff seminars, so that might be something to consider.


Good to know! Thanks!

Are these business law type classes any more difficult generally than other offerings? I'm not coming from a business background so Id be a little nervous about jumping right into one 1L year, but I'm considering it now.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:05 pm

lookingin wrote:
cfr1225 wrote:
lookingin wrote:
blahblewblah wrote:...I would avoid it like the plague 1L spring. It is packed with Law Review kids and the curve will be insanely hard (it is a test where you can write a good exam and get a B). I highly recommend taking it 2L or 3L where grades are less on the line, but I would not take it 1L.


In that vein, what classes would you recommend for 1Ls? What are supposed to be the easier classes?

And can people share with me the pros/cons of doing a January course? Is this recommended 1L year or would my time be better spent doing some pro bono, working, etc. instead?


Solid choices for 1Ls include Corporations, Corporate Finance/Accounting, Evidence, Fed Tax, Crim Procedure/Investigation - classes that prereqs for clinics or for other courses. I know some friends who got some blowback during OGI for taking fluff seminars, so that might be something to consider.


Good to know! Thanks!

Are these business law type classes any more difficult generally than other offerings? I'm not coming from a business background so Id be a little nervous about jumping right into one 1L year, but I'm considering it now.


To be perfectly frank, I think transactional classes are easier in terms of the curve than other classes. The material can get a bit tricky -- not because of not having a background in it, but because they are often statute-heavy -- but they seem to have a lower proportion of law review type students than other classes.

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:27 pm

cfr1225 wrote:Solid choices for 1Ls include Corporations, Corporate Finance/Accounting, Evidence, Fed Tax, Crim Procedure/Investigation - classes that prereqs for clinics or for other courses. I know some friends who got some blowback during OGI for taking fluff seminars, so that might be something to consider.


We disagree on this I know, but I would avoid Corporate Finance/Accounting as a 1L spring course unless you are naturally attracted to courses with lots of numbers. I have been told the grade distribution does not follow a normal curve, and alongside several A+s and As there will also be Cs handed out.

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Br3v
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Br3v » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:34 pm

When do 1Ls pick classes?

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:41 pm

Br3v wrote:When do 1Ls pick classes?


It's like November or something, I think. Maybe late October.

blahblewblah
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby blahblewblah » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:08 pm

5ky wrote: To be perfectly frank, I think transactional classes are easier in terms of the curve than other classes. The material can get a bit tricky -- not because of not having a background in it, but because they are often statute-heavy -- but they seem to have a lower proportion of law review type students than other classes.


I don't know if the relevant split is transactional vs. litigation-based classes (some transactional classes can be fairly gunner-ish, as my Corporations class was). I think it is more about avoiding classes with a large swath of law review gunners. These classes tend to lean litigation, I guess, but at the same time there is a wide swath of litigation classes that won't necessarily be gunnery.

cfr1225
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby cfr1225 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:39 pm

blahblewblah wrote:
5ky wrote: To be perfectly frank, I think transactional classes are easier in terms of the curve than other classes. The material can get a bit tricky -- not because of not having a background in it, but because they are often statute-heavy -- but they seem to have a lower proportion of law review type students than other classes.


I don't know if the relevant split is transactional vs. litigation-based classes (some transactional classes can be fairly gunner-ish, as my Corporations class was). I think it is more about avoiding classes with a large swath of law review gunners. These classes tend to lean litigation, I guess, but at the same time there is a wide swath of litigation classes that won't necessarily be gunnery.


And VLR people travel in packs - if you figure out where one of them is going, you can probably assume that at least five more will be following along.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:24 pm

albanach wrote:
cfr1225 wrote:Solid choices for 1Ls include Corporations, Corporate Finance/Accounting, Evidence, Fed Tax, Crim Procedure/Investigation - classes that prereqs for clinics or for other courses. I know some friends who got some blowback during OGI for taking fluff seminars, so that might be something to consider.


We disagree on this I know, but I would avoid Corporate Finance/Accounting as a 1L spring course unless you are naturally attracted to courses with lots of numbers. I have been told the grade distribution does not follow a normal curve, and alongside several A+s and As there will also be Cs handed out.


The ones I took were almost perfectly normal curves. The trick with accounting:corp finance, like most transactional courses, is that it's hard to bullshit your way to a B/B- by doing absolutely nothing, like you could for some other classes. If you grind it out, a C+ just isn't happening.

I also disagreed with you on that course, however. In my experience the apt comparison is between whether you are actively terrible with numbers to the point algebra is difficult for you vs being good with numbers. When I took it (moreso for corp finance, because there isn't really a whole lot of numbers in accounting), the people who did badly struggled a ton with the really basic stuff -- one student had the professor walk through solving for X in a 3X - 7 = 14 type situation.

However, reasonable minds have disagreed on this topic for a while, and no doubt there's people decent at numbers who worked and still got bad grades.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:26 pm

blahblewblah wrote:
5ky wrote: To be perfectly frank, I think transactional classes are easier in terms of the curve than other classes. The material can get a bit tricky -- not because of not having a background in it, but because they are often statute-heavy -- but they seem to have a lower proportion of law review type students than other classes.


I don't know if the relevant split is transactional vs. litigation-based classes (some transactional classes can be fairly gunner-ish, as my Corporations class was). I think it is more about avoiding classes with a large swath of law review gunners. These classes tend to lean litigation, I guess, but at the same time there is a wide swath of litigation classes that won't necessarily be gunnery.


Corporations and maybe Tax have the greater chance of having gunners I would think, since those are the most basic classes that most students take. But something like SecReg, Secured Transactions, Bankruptcy, Agency/Partnership, etc aren't going to have much clerking lit crossovers.

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Yardbird
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Yardbird » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:05 pm

Did anyone here have Kordana and have (1) an old outline or (2) any past exams? I'm trying to structure my notes into a functional outline of some sort but have no real structure to base it on (Kordana hasn't really given us any structure yet). Please shoot me a PM if you can help with (1) or (2)

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:59 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:Did anyone here have Kordana and have (1) an old outline or (2) any past exams? I'm trying to structure my notes into a functional outline of some sort but have no real structure to base it on (Kordana hasn't really given us any structure yet). Please shoot me a PM if you can help with (1) or (2)


Is there no outline on the SBA website?

Typically old exams are distributed for personal use only (the lawweb clickthrough text usually says something to that effect). I don't have any for Kordana, but even if I did I wouldn't be comfortable sharing them. If you want old exams to help you structure the course, the best place to start is by asking your prof.

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Yardbird
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Yardbird » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:16 pm

albanach wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:Did anyone here have Kordana and have (1) an old outline or (2) any past exams? I'm trying to structure my notes into a functional outline of some sort but have no real structure to base it on (Kordana hasn't really given us any structure yet). Please shoot me a PM if you can help with (1) or (2)


Is there no outline on the SBA website?

Typically old exams are distributed for personal use only (the lawweb clickthrough text usually says something to that effect). I don't have any for Kordana, but even if I did I wouldn't be comfortable sharing them. If you want old exams to help you structure the course, the best place to start is by asking your prof.
Yea I figured exams would be a gray zone. There's one outline on SBA but it's unclear as to whether it's a good or bad one to follow.




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