UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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paglababa
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby paglababa » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:40 pm

Anyone here get a full ride to UVA? Can you please PM me?

envisciguy
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby envisciguy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:27 pm

With drop/add going on, I have two questions about classes:
1) Is it crazy to drop Remedies with Laycock to take Class Actions with Rutherglen?
2) Is there any disadvantage to being in Patent Law if I don't have a hard science background?

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North
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby North » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:08 pm

So, what makes Nelson's CivPro exams so hard/unfathomable?

dansw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dansw » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:51 pm

In assigned casebook reading, is it potentially helpful from the standpoint of the exam to follow the references in the questions after the cases to various cases relevant to the one in the actual reading, read them, and take notes? Or is that just a waste of time? I haven't been doing that (though I did read a couple) but I keep feeling like I should be....

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:41 pm

dansw wrote:In assigned casebook reading, is it potentially helpful from the standpoint of the exam to follow the references in the questions after the cases to various cases relevant to the one in the actual reading, read them, and take notes? Or is that just a waste of time? I haven't been doing that (though I did read a couple) but I keep feeling like I should be....


no

dixon02
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dixon02 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:00 pm

envisciguy wrote:With drop/add going on, I have two questions about classes:
1) Is it crazy to drop Remedies with Laycock to take Class Actions with Rutherglen?
2) Is there any disadvantage to being in Patent Law if I don't have a hard science background?


1) Why would it be crazy? Neither is particularly exciting, though Laycock is a pretty good teacher and Rutherglen is one of the most boring men alive. But it's not crazy.

2) I've heard pretty terrible things about Bagley. Check out the reviews in the past. Supposed to be just awful. And I've heard that people who lack any science background can struggle a bit. There are people in that class who have hard science degrees and some who were patent examiners. I wouldn't take that class for a number of reasons.

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Hspeaksfriend
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Hspeaksfriend » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:34 am

North wrote:So, what makes Nelson's CivPro exams so hard/unfathomable?


Is this common knowledge or did someone tell you that specifically?

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:49 am

Much better for an exam to be too hard than too easy. Too easy and it's impossible to distinguish yourself, and grading becomes even more random than it already is.

A "hard" exam doesn't really mean what it used to for 1Ls, because it's graded on a strict curve.

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North
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby North » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:10 pm

Hspeaksfriend wrote:
North wrote:So, what makes Nelson's CivPro exams so hard/unfathomable?


Is this common knowledge or did someone tell you that specifically?

Old posts ITT.

5ky wrote:Much better for an exam to be too hard than too easy. Too easy and it's impossible to distinguish yourself, and grading becomes even more random than it already is.

A "hard" exam doesn't really mean what it used to for 1Ls, because it's graded on a strict curve.

Oh, I understand that. I'm more trying to figure out what makes a 1L exam "hard" in the classes where people say they're hard. Nelson's exam is supposed to be insanely difficult, so I'm running with him as an example. I've heard his are racehorse exams. Is that what makes them difficult? Or is it because he covers so, so much and you have to know that much more to spot issues or whatever. That, and I'm just curious. Old posts say they're crazy hard, but not why.

StanleyF
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby StanleyF » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:45 pm

North wrote:I'm more trying to figure out what makes a 1L exam "hard" in the classes where people say they're hard. Nelson's exam is supposed to be insanely difficult, so I'm running with him as an example. I've heard his are racehorse exams. Is that what makes them difficult? Or is it because he covers so, so much and you have to know that much more to spot issues or whatever. That, and I'm just curious. Old posts say they're crazy hard, but not why.


Exams can be hard in lots of ways. Here are some categories for hard exams I experienced:

The Head Exploder — these are incredibly complex fact patterns that entail keeping track of a dozen different entities and claims, and figuring out the relationship among the parties before you can even apply the law. They usually raise more issues than you could possibly deal with in three hours. This was the most common hard exam for me.

The Did I Take This Class — At least one question appears to be something that you didn't cover, or spent about five minutes on in class.

The Did The Professor Write This Exam — The exam seems to only cover about half of what you did in class. These are my least favorite, because I walk out thinking I must have missed some serious issues.

The Deceptively Simple Exam — These have short, tight fact patterns that at first seem pretty straightforward, so straightforward that you sit there thinking you can't possibly fill three hours answering this thing. Then, halfway through (if you're lucky), you realize that the facts implicate a huge issue that you've totally failed to address. My worst law school grade came on an exam I thought I did the best on. It fell in this category.

As a side note, since today is the first day of 2L and 3L classes, I figure my tenure as a UVa Law student is at an end. So as not to pollute this thread with stale observations, I'm going to stop posting (unless, of course, someone has a question for a UVa alum).

Good luck this school year, everyone, and thanks for all the great information and discussion.

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:43 pm

dixon02 wrote:1) Why would it be crazy? Neither is particularly exciting, though Laycock is a pretty good teacher and Rutherglen is one of the most boring men alive. But it's not crazy.


I disagree with the assessment of Rutherglen, though I know you're not alone in your view. Still there are plenty that appreciate the dry humor, clear teaching style and availability of helpful powerpoint slides.

Depending on the rest of the course load, there may be a significant gain from taking class actions which has a couple of short papers, leaving more space during exam time.

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anon sequitur
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby anon sequitur » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:30 pm

albanach wrote:
I disagree with the assessment of Rutherglen, though I know you're not alone in your view. Still there are plenty that appreciate the dry humor, clear teaching style and availability of helpful powerpoint slides.


Lol, just lol. I actually like Ruthy a lot and would take another of his classes, but have to disagree with the helpfulness of his slides. Anyway, he is a polarizing professor, there were a lot of strong feelings in my class about him, some positive, some negative.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:33 pm

GRutherglen is boring as fuck, but it's easy to do well in his classes because he writes hornbooks/provides plenty of secondary resources that not everyone utilizes - but seriously sit near the front if you like to actually hear him talk because he is so quiet (or in the alternative, just don't go)

Also he's extremely nice and insanely liberal

(Also to echo above, GR's powerpoints are extremely UNHELPFUL. it's all about the book/hornbook. but I took him for Emp Disc. which is an exam class so idk how this would differ for class actions)

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Yardbird
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Yardbird » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:58 pm

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albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:28 am

anon sequitur wrote:Lol, just lol. I actually like Ruthy a lot and would take another of his classes, but have to disagree with the helpfulness of his slides.


But once you figure out what his triangles mean, the entire class makes sense.

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:36 am

shadowofjazz wrote:So I found out today that Kordana had a mishap with exams two years ago and is back to teaching 1Ls again this year...should I be worried at all? (besides the fact that he goes on 40 minute tangents about Canadians inevitably invading America)


I'm not sure if you're implying Kordana is teaching 1Ls as a result of this 'mishap'. Kordona has taught 1L classes for years. From what I understand, many professors like teaching 1L classes because at least half the class will actually turn up prepared.

What do you mean by 'should I be worried'? Are you planning to go ask for an alternate professor? You're graded on a curve against the rest of your section. All you need to worry about is that.

Wahoos
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Wahoos » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:13 pm

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olive16
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby olive16 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:27 am

As far as grading and the curve, what's the consequence of electing to do a paper in a class that also has an exam option?

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jkpolk
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby jkpolk » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:38 am

I'm rather hungover

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:38 pm

North wrote:So, what makes Nelson's CivPro exams so hard/unfathomable?


It may be apocryphal, but I heard a rumor that he once had an entire question about the Erie Doctrine which only about half of the class realized was even a question about the Erie Doctrine.

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North
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby North » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:31 pm

thesealocust wrote:
North wrote:So, what makes Nelson's CivPro exams so hard/unfathomable?


It may be apocryphal, but I heard a rumor that he once had an entire question about the Erie Doctrine which only about half of the class realized was even a question about the Erie Doctrine.

Oh. Jeez... Okay, I'm glad I asked.

Any other hearsay?

And welcome back, you legend you.

cfr1225
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby cfr1225 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:50 am

North wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
North wrote:So, what makes Nelson's CivPro exams so hard/unfathomable?


It may be apocryphal, but I heard a rumor that he once had an entire question about the Erie Doctrine which only about half of the class realized was even a question about the Erie Doctrine.

Oh. Jeez... Okay, I'm glad I asked.

Any other hearsay?

And welcome back, you legend you.


His policy question tends to be insanely difficult. He'll ask something you seriously have never even thought to consider before, and because there's so much material in the class, you'll have no idea - even generally - of what it will be about.

That being said, you will be fine, just like many, many years worth of Nelson CivPro students have made it through just fine. Yes, the exam will be hard, but it will be hard for everyone in your class, the curve will do its magic, and everyone will make it through in one piece.

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Yardbird
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Yardbird » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:04 am

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albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:51 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:Well I was told by a 3L Kordana reused an old exam and the answer key had been leaked (was told this happened two or three years ago) and there was a problem with grading as a result and people got credit/no credit grade unless they took a second exam.


Not saying that didn't happen, but if it did and they managed to keep it out of Above The Law, that would be quite the achievement for UVA.

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InferenceOptional
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby InferenceOptional » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:15 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:
albanach wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:So I found out today that Kordana had a mishap with exams two years ago and is back to teaching 1Ls again this year...should I be worried at all? (besides the fact that he goes on 40 minute tangents about Canadians inevitably invading America)


I'm not sure if you're implying Kordana is teaching 1Ls as a result of this 'mishap'. Kordona has taught 1L classes for years. From what I understand, many professors like teaching 1L classes because at least half the class will actually turn up prepared.

What do you mean by 'should I be worried'? Are you planning to go ask for an alternate professor? You're graded on a curve against the rest of your section. All you need to worry about is that.
Well I was told by a 3L Kordana reused an old exam and the answer key had been leaked (was told this happened two or three years ago) and there was a problem with grading as a result and people got credit/no credit grade unless they took a second exam.

I guess I'm "worried" about Kordana's class because out of the four classes, his seems to have 0 direction, there's no syllabus, and he goes on hr long tangents about Canada invading the US

It's the same disadvantage for everybody. I would suggest to never rely on the professor to learn the BLL, and think of class more as how they would want to argue when a situation can go either way. If you're a great student you're going to be hurt by a professor like that. If you're a great self-starter you're going to be helped. Ideally, you probably want to learn how to become both depending on the partner you work for so don't complain either way.

I would also stop thinking of these tangents as a time to zone out. Guarantee you can fit some of the crap into a fact pattern. Had 2 profs who would do that. Zoned out for one's tangents, took notes on the others. This was the diff b/w an A and a B+.




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