UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
Wahoos
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Wahoos » Wed May 29, 2013 11:53 pm

Hspeaksfriend wrote:
5ky wrote:I don't know where anybody heard that a judicial internship is better than anything else for 1L summer, but that's Incorrect with a capital I. You aren't getting paid, and it's not more impressive than an SA, so on the two main prongs (benefit to you, signaling device to firms) it is inferior.


I've heard from MULTIPLE law students/graduates that having a judicial internship looks better on your resume. Can someone who agrees with this chime in?



You will learn quickly that there is a MULTITUDE of law students who literally make things up and convince themselves they are true to justify not being the best at something

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Hspeaksfriend
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Hspeaksfriend » Thu May 30, 2013 12:09 am

anon sequitur wrote:
Hspeaksfriend wrote:Can someone who agrees with this chime in?


Lol.

Please just apply for both and worry about it next year.


Since when is asking a question considered "worrying" about something. I was just curious :shock:

EDIT: whoops, typo

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Hspeaksfriend
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Hspeaksfriend » Thu May 30, 2013 12:12 am

Wahoos wrote:
Hspeaksfriend wrote:
5ky wrote:I don't know where anybody heard that a judicial internship is better than anything else for 1L summer, but that's Incorrect with a capital I. You aren't getting paid, and it's not more impressive than an SA, so on the two main prongs (benefit to you, signaling device to firms) it is inferior.


I've heard from MULTIPLE law students/graduates that having a judicial internship looks better on your resume. Can someone who agrees with this chime in?



You will learn quickly that there is a MULTITUDE of law students who literally make things up and convince themselves they are true to justify not being the best at something


Haha that's fair. And I'm not really surprised by that. I feel like this is the mentality of the TLSers who claim that prepping before school starts is detrimental/a bad idea.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Thu May 30, 2013 12:22 am

Prepping before school is a bad idea

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Thu May 30, 2013 12:26 am

Prepping before school is a bad idea.

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Hspeaksfriend
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Hspeaksfriend » Thu May 30, 2013 12:27 am

5ky wrote:Prepping before school is a bad idea


I have no doubt that certain prepping tactics can be a bad idea. I'm just saying that I think some people argue that it's a bad idea for the sole reason of making themselves feel better/justify doing nothing before school starts.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Thu May 30, 2013 12:29 am

Hspeaksfriend wrote:
5ky wrote:Prepping before school is a bad idea


I have no doubt that certain prepping tactics can be a bad idea. I'm just saying that I think some people argue that it's a bad idea for the sole reason of making themselves feel better/justify doing nothing before school starts.


Maybe some 0Ls do, but when everyone else says it, it's because it's true

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Hspeaksfriend
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Hspeaksfriend » Thu May 30, 2013 12:31 am

5ky wrote:
Hspeaksfriend wrote:
5ky wrote:Prepping before school is a bad idea


I have no doubt that certain prepping tactics can be a bad idea. I'm just saying that I think some people argue that it's a bad idea for the sole reason of making themselves feel better/justify doing nothing before school starts.


Maybe some 0Ls do, but when everyone else says it, it's because it's true


Well I've heard that a lot, but I don't think I'll understand that concept until I'm actually a 1L.

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chem
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby chem » Thu May 30, 2013 7:36 am

thesealocust wrote:Prepping before school is a bad idea.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Thu May 30, 2013 8:15 am

chem wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Prepping before school is a bad idea.

nacho cheese
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby nacho cheese » Thu May 30, 2013 9:21 am

thesealocust wrote:
chem wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Prepping before school is a bad idea.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Thu May 30, 2013 9:35 am

Is 10% really 3.65? Seems high. No shot it's a few points lower.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Thu May 30, 2013 9:55 am

bananapeanutbutter wrote:Is 10% really 3.65? Seems high. No shot it's a few points lower.


(a) it doesn't matter

(b) yes*

*according to statistical approximations, the law of averages, and assumptions of normal distributions. For any particular class there certainly could be variation, but there is every reason to believe over time the top 10% of the class will fall near 3.65.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Thu May 30, 2013 10:05 am

bananapeanutbutter wrote:Is 10% really 3.65? Seems high. No shot it's a few points lower.


Presuming LR (~7) is 3.73 (give or take a few points either way), and median is 3.3: If we assume normal distribution, then 25% is about 3.49, which is just about the historical 25%, so it seems the distribution is almost normal (or very slightly right-skewed). This would imply 10% is around 3.67, so I would guess that even accounting for uncertainty, it doesn't go below 3.65 by more than a point.

But I'm just a 0L and that's just conjecture. Perhaps the skew is more pronounced.

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RSterling
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby RSterling » Thu May 30, 2013 11:03 am

Should I be taking out the full loans for books/cost of living (I'll be sharing a 2br in ivy)? I don't live super extravagantly, but I would like to be comfortable. If I buy a mix of new and used books mostly off amazon and the PILA sale, will I need the full budget?

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Thu May 30, 2013 11:04 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:Is 10% really 3.65? Seems high. No shot it's a few points lower.


Presuming LR (~7) is 3.73 (give or take a few points either way), and median is 3.3: If we assume normal distribution, then 25% is about 3.49, which is just about the historical 25%, so it seems the distribution is almost normal (or very slightly right-skewed). This would imply 10% is around 3.67, so I would guess that even accounting for uncertainty, it doesn't go below 3.65 by more than a point.

But I'm just a 0L and that's just conjecture. Perhaps the skew is more pronounced.

Over 30 percent is b/w a 3.3 and 3.48.

It kind of matters. Some contacts at firms told me I'd be competitive with top 10 percent so I just want to know what firms to prioritize to not be unemployed.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Thu May 30, 2013 11:17 am

Not directly on point, but worth repeating:

thesealocust wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Image

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Mack12
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Mack12 » Thu May 30, 2013 12:27 pm

Tagging for future reading!

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Thu May 30, 2013 1:11 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:Over 30 percent is b/w a 3.3 and 3.48.


Okay, I'm now confused.

dixon02 wrote: Agreed, with one small caveat. Only two reasons to do MB. First is if it gets you out of cite checks. Even then, it might not be worth it depending on the amount of work that comes with the position. The second is that if you want to clerk and have the grades where it might be possible (hard to know at this point, but you probably want to be over the 3.48 top 25% cutoff at a minimum), then there might be some value in it. There's no good reason to think about EIC. It's a lot of work with no payoff.


That was my sourcing for the 3.48 25% number, and it was also mentioned earlier ITT as "the historical number" for 25%, although that post is a few years old. If 3.48 were the 25% cutoff, there's no way you could have 30% between 3.3 and 3.48 unless the "between" was included in the set AND there was heavy, heavy bunching at 3.48. Can someone shed light on this?

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Thu May 30, 2013 1:37 pm

You guys are taking things that you should not be caring about yet/if at all way too seriously. It's bad for neurosis, which sounds glib but is true.

But 3.48 is what is listed specifically on transcripts as being roughly top 25%.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Thu May 30, 2013 2:01 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:Over 30 percent is b/w a 3.3 and 3.48.


Okay, I'm now confused.

dixon02 wrote: Agreed, with one small caveat. Only two reasons to do MB. First is if it gets you out of cite checks. Even then, it might not be worth it depending on the amount of work that comes with the position. The second is that if you want to clerk and have the grades where it might be possible (hard to know at this point, but you probably want to be over the 3.48 top 25% cutoff at a minimum), then there might be some value in it. There's no good reason to think about EIC. It's a lot of work with no payoff.


That was my sourcing for the 3.48 25% number, and it was also mentioned earlier ITT as "the historical number" for 25%, although that post is a few years old. If 3.48 were the 25% cutoff, there's no way you could have 30% between 3.3 and 3.48 unless the "between" was included in the set AND there was heavy, heavy bunching at 3.48. Can someone shed light on this?

3.3 isn't the 50th percentile. It's the median, which is roughly 2/3 of any 1 class. The 50th percentile is a little higher, and 3.48 is top 25% so a huge amount of people fall b/w a 3.2 and 3.5. I'm just curious on the finer distinctions between that 3.5 and 3.7.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Thu May 30, 2013 2:18 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:Over 30 percent is b/w a 3.3 and 3.48.


Okay, I'm now confused.

dixon02 wrote: Agreed, with one small caveat. Only two reasons to do MB. First is if it gets you out of cite checks. Even then, it might not be worth it depending on the amount of work that comes with the position. The second is that if you want to clerk and have the grades where it might be possible (hard to know at this point, but you probably want to be over the 3.48 top 25% cutoff at a minimum), then there might be some value in it. There's no good reason to think about EIC. It's a lot of work with no payoff.


That was my sourcing for the 3.48 25% number, and it was also mentioned earlier ITT as "the historical number" for 25%, although that post is a few years old. If 3.48 were the 25% cutoff, there's no way you could have 30% between 3.3 and 3.48 unless the "between" was included in the set AND there was heavy, heavy bunching at 3.48. Can someone shed light on this?

3.3 isn't the 50th percentile. It's the median, which is roughly 2/3 of any 1 class. The 50th percentile is a little higher, and 3.48 is top 25% so a huge amount of people fall b/w a 3.2 and 3.5. I'm just curious on the finer distinctions between that 3.5 and 3.7.


The 50th percentile can't possibly be higher than the median--they're the same thing.

sprezz
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby sprezz » Thu May 30, 2013 3:23 pm

if you wanna play around, try this in excel

=(1-NORMDIST($I9,$P$4,($P$5-$P$4)/NORMSINV(1-($P$6/100)),TRUE))*100

i9: gpa you're curious about
p4: median, 3.3
p5: any sample gpa that you know the cutoff for, e.g. 3.48
p6: the percentile corresponding to the sample gpa you chose, e.g. here 25

disclaimer: no idea how precise this is, but it passes the eye test. as other posters have suggested, passing the eye test is good enough for whatever you could possibly want this info for

obviously no reason to use the i and p cells, put them wherever. i tacked this onto a template i used to calculate lsac gpa so i just stuck it where it fit

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Thu May 30, 2013 3:28 pm

If you want to Mathlete this, you have 3 relatively reliable data points:

1. Median should be around 3.3

2. Transcripts state 3.48 is historically around top 25%

3. Every year law review takes X students with a GPA above 3.[whatever] as grade ons - you can math that out to a percentile

Plugging all of that into Z-tables and cross-checking with the occasional data leaks from career services suggests a fairly normal grade distribution:

Image

But really, none of this matters. All employment decisions are holistic - "hmm this guy got a 3.56, but he loves classical music and American Girl Doll collecting, he's a must hire!" not "CANDIDATE NUMBER 4B43 FAILED TO PASS TOP 15% HISTORICAL THRESHOLD ON A CONFIDENCE INTERVAL OF UNDER 0.05%; SUGGEST DENIAL OF EMPLOYMENT APPLICATION"

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Thu May 30, 2013 3:44 pm

1. How do you submit December 1 applicants for 1L summer positions without driving yourself insane?
2. Advantages/disadvantages of J-term courses?
3. If most exams are open-note, does anyone have a good strategy for organizing their notes/outlines so that it's easily accessible?
4. How fast does one's typing speed have to be? I tend to think of myself as a pretty fast typer, but the type A kids I knew in college were doing 130+ WPM. Is it that insane, or will basic proficiency suffice?




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