UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
dailygrind
Posts: 19668
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:08 am

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dailygrind » Wed May 29, 2013 12:37 am

anon sequitur wrote:What is this DG's list you all are referring to?


dailygrind wrote:I don't have any data saved. Best I've got for you comes from memory and hearsay. Cohen's PR - very wide (hearsay); Abraham's classes - very narrow (hearsay); Sayler's Rhetoric - incredibly narrow (my own research); most clinics - incredibly narrow (hearsay).

User avatar
anon sequitur
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:14 am

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby anon sequitur » Wed May 29, 2013 12:43 am

Ah, thanks, I thought I was missing a web page or something. On a related note, when do course offerings for next year usually get published?

User avatar
5ky
Posts: 6400
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:10 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Wed May 29, 2013 12:58 am

anon sequitur wrote:Ah, thanks, I thought I was missing a web page or something. On a related note, when do course offerings for next year usually get published?


Mid-late June probably

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed May 29, 2013 1:52 pm

Hey folks, a few questions:

1. Is it a generally accepted idea that it would be beneficial for 1Ls to take 14 (I think that's the minimum) credits in the spring in order to minimize workload and thereby maximize GPA?

2. Presuming your GPA does not drop by a gigantic amount, how important does GPA become after OCI? Are there practical consequences to dropping a little bit if it wouldn't be enough to set off red flags with the firms you've interviewed with?

Thanks.

User avatar
5ky
Posts: 6400
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:10 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Wed May 29, 2013 2:00 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Hey folks, a few questions:

1. Is it a generally accepted idea that it would be beneficial for 1Ls to take 14 (I think that's the minimum) credits in the spring in order to minimize workload and thereby maximize GPA?

2. Presuming your GPA does not drop by a gigantic amount, how important does GPA become after OCI? Are there practical consequences to dropping a little bit if it wouldn't be enough to set off red flags with the firms you've interviewed with?

Thanks.


1. No, this is not accepted at all

2. Not very important if you have a job

User avatar
anon sequitur
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:14 am

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby anon sequitur » Wed May 29, 2013 2:03 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Hey folks, a few questions:

1. Is it a generally accepted idea that it would be beneficial for 1Ls to take 14 (I think that's the minimum) credits in the spring in order to minimize workload and thereby maximize GPA?


12 is the minimum credit number. I don't know anyone who did this, since it would involve just taking 4 credits in addition to the two required 2nd semester classes. I think that would look weird and obvious to employers. Besides, there's not much difference in the workload between a 3 and a 4 credit class. Most people took 14-15, there's no need to load up more than this, since you only need to average like 13.5 per semester anyway.

User avatar
5ky
Posts: 6400
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:10 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Wed May 29, 2013 2:21 pm

anon sequitur wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Hey folks, a few questions:

1. Is it a generally accepted idea that it would be beneficial for 1Ls to take 14 (I think that's the minimum) credits in the spring in order to minimize workload and thereby maximize GPA?


12 is the minimum credit number. I don't know anyone who did this, since it would involve just taking 4 credits in addition to the two required 2nd semester classes. I think that would look weird and obvious to employers. Besides, there's not much difference in the workload between a 3 and a 4 credit class. Most people took 14-15, there's no need to load up more than this, since you only need to average like 13.5 per semester anyway.


14 is the minimum you can take in the Spring of 1L. You can only take 14, 15, or 16.

BigLawer
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:37 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby BigLawer » Wed May 29, 2013 2:58 pm

5ky wrote:
anon sequitur wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Hey folks, a few questions:

1. Is it a generally accepted idea that it would be beneficial for 1Ls to take 14 (I think that's the minimum) credits in the spring in order to minimize workload and thereby maximize GPA?


12 is the minimum credit number. I don't know anyone who did this, since it would involve just taking 4 credits in addition to the two required 2nd semester classes. I think that would look weird and obvious to employers. Besides, there's not much difference in the workload between a 3 and a 4 credit class. Most people took 14-15, there's no need to load up more than this, since you only need to average like 13.5 per semester anyway.


14 is the minimum you can take in the Spring of 1L. You can only take 14, 15, or 16.


I only took 14. Felt the same as first semester when I took 16.

StanleyF
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:38 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby StanleyF » Wed May 29, 2013 3:19 pm

My random two cents' worth of opinion while I procrastinate my Barbri homework:

I looked at the grade distributions a few times but never found them useful. The only people who will be hurt by this, in my opinion, are those who would otherwise believe the random statements that students sometimes make about certain professors "never giving below a B+."

I also took 14 credits my IL year and it felt exactly the same as 16 credits. My evidence class was 3 credits, and the next year the same prof made the same class 4 credits. Moral of the story: If you can take a class that is worth more credits than the same class taught by another professor, do it.

User avatar
anon sequitur
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:14 am

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby anon sequitur » Wed May 29, 2013 4:44 pm

5ky wrote:
14 is the minimum you can take in the Spring of 1L. You can only take 14, 15, or 16.


ah, good to note

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed May 29, 2013 5:24 pm

Given that it seems 1L summer associate work is so rare:

1. What differentiates the people who do get it? Would you get first semester grades in time for it to matter?
2. What's the next best thing to aim for, assuming you don't get it?

User avatar
chem
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby chem » Wed May 29, 2013 7:22 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Given that it seems 1L summer associate work is so rare:

1. What differentiates the people who do get it? Would you get first semester grades in time for it to matter?
2. What's the next best thing to aim for, assuming you don't get it?


Biggest difference I saw between people who got 1L SA's this year and people who didn't is that the people who got 1L SA's had a solid home market, got their apps out the door on December 1st, and sent a lot of apps. Also, they were all above median

For 2., anything that is legal that pays. On the other hand, OGI is a lot aout signaling, so if you want a market you don't have ties to, try to work there for 1L summer, or flesh out your resume in whatever field you like.

User avatar
danitt
Posts: 1984
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:40 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby danitt » Wed May 29, 2013 7:25 pm

chem wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Given that it seems 1L summer associate work is so rare:

1. What differentiates the people who do get it? Would you get first semester grades in time for it to matter?
2. What's the next best thing to aim for, assuming you don't get it?


Biggest difference I saw between people who got 1L SA's this year and people who didn't is that the people who got 1L SA's had a solid home market, got their apps out the door on December 1st, and sent a lot of apps. Also, they were all above median

For 2., anything that is legal that pays. On the other hand, OGI is a lot aout signaling, so if you want a market you don't have ties to, try to work there for 1L summer, or flesh out your resume in whatever field you like.

Is there a possibility of working with a professor during the summer?

User avatar
chem
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby chem » Wed May 29, 2013 8:05 pm

danitt wrote:
chem wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Given that it seems 1L summer associate work is so rare:

1. What differentiates the people who do get it? Would you get first semester grades in time for it to matter?
2. What's the next best thing to aim for, assuming you don't get it?


Biggest difference I saw between people who got 1L SA's this year and people who didn't is that the people who got 1L SA's had a solid home market, got their apps out the door on December 1st, and sent a lot of apps. Also, they were all above median

For 2., anything that is legal that pays. On the other hand, OGI is a lot aout signaling, so if you want a market you don't have ties to, try to work there for 1L summer, or flesh out your resume in whatever field you like.

Is there a possibility of working with a professor during the summer?


Yep. A couple of my friends are doing it

JRustle
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:10 am

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby JRustle » Wed May 29, 2013 9:14 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Given that it seems 1L summer associate work is so rare:

1. What differentiates the people who do get it? Would you get first semester grades in time for it to matter?
2. What's the next best thing to aim for, assuming you don't get it?


I know a good number of people who scored SAs and only 2 of them got them post-grades (not counting those who got something out of the spring mini-OGI). Luck of the draw, big home market, being personable. I know just as many people who did everything right and for one reason or another turned up empty.

I would say the best thing, even better than SA, is doing a judicial internship. The one drawback, and it is a pretty huge drawback, is that they are unpaid. Not even PILA funds. So you either gotta be cool with living with your parents or have a nice rainy day fund.

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed May 29, 2013 9:40 pm

5ky wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Hey folks, a few questions:

1. Is it a generally accepted idea that it would be beneficial for 1Ls to take 14 (I think that's the minimum) credits in the spring in order to minimize workload and thereby maximize GPA?

2. Presuming your GPA does not drop by a gigantic amount, how important does GPA become after OCI? Are there practical consequences to dropping a little bit if it wouldn't be enough to set off red flags with the firms you've interviewed with?

Thanks.


1. No, this is not accepted at all

2. Not very important if you have a job


Sorry to pester, but I'm still unclear to what extent 2L and 3L grades are salient factors. Suppose you got a 3.5 and did well at OCI. How far would your grades have to drop before you faced serious consequences for it? What if they fell to 3.3, or 3.0? What keeps 2Ls and 3Ls motivated enough to get anything above the minimum GPA to stay in good standing?

User avatar
chem
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby chem » Wed May 29, 2013 10:01 pm

JRustle wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Given that it seems 1L summer associate work is so rare:

1. What differentiates the people who do get it? Would you get first semester grades in time for it to matter?
2. What's the next best thing to aim for, assuming you don't get it?


I know a good number of people who scored SAs and only 2 of them got them post-grades (not counting those who got something out of the spring mini-OGI). Luck of the draw, big home market, being personable. I know just as many people who did everything right and for one reason or another turned up empty.

I would say the best thing, even better than SA, is doing a judicial internship. The one drawback, and it is a pretty huge drawback, is that they are unpaid. Not even PILA funds. So you either gotta be cool with living with your parents or have a nice rainy day fund.


Conventional wisdom is that talking about "better" summer jobs for 1L year is like talk about which secondary journal is "better". Its a joke.

SA: loads of money
In house: "i know how to work with clients"
RA: Get a professor recommender and maybe something for a note by the end. Plus money
Judge: Better writer, good connections to the legal community
Public Service: Show passion and get good legal experience

Anything 1L summer thats legal is good. Its all about what you want to do really

User avatar
North
Posts: 4043
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:09 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby North » Wed May 29, 2013 10:04 pm

JRustle wrote:I would say the best thing, even better than SA, is doing a judicial internship.

Why do you think that's the case? How does one go about landing one of these for 1L summer?

Edit: typo.
Last edited by North on Wed May 29, 2013 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wahoos
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 11:16 am

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Wahoos » Wed May 29, 2013 10:17 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Given that it seems 1L summer associate work is so rare:

1. What differentiates the people who do get it? Would you get first semester grades in time for it to matter?
2. What's the next best thing to aim for, assuming you don't get it?


When I actually compile a list of the people I know with firm positions, it's actually pretty big.

#1 way of scoring one is by having a good 0L resume and ties to a secondary market (ideally in the south) and mass mailing the firms in that market/ contacting attorneys you know on December 1

#2 way is mass mailing December 1, dominating 1L exams, and then updating firms with your grades. Someone else said they only heard of 2 people who did this but I am only aware of like 50 peoples' jobs and yet I know of at least 4 who scored one this way

User avatar
5ky
Posts: 6400
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:10 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Wed May 29, 2013 10:28 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
5ky wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Hey folks, a few questions:

1. Is it a generally accepted idea that it would be beneficial for 1Ls to take 14 (I think that's the minimum) credits in the spring in order to minimize workload and thereby maximize GPA?

2. Presuming your GPA does not drop by a gigantic amount, how important does GPA become after OCI? Are there practical consequences to dropping a little bit if it wouldn't be enough to set off red flags with the firms you've interviewed with?

Thanks.


1. No, this is not accepted at all

2. Not very important if you have a job


Sorry to pester, but I'm still unclear to what extent 2L and 3L grades are salient factors. Suppose you got a 3.5 and did well at OCI. How far would your grades have to drop before you faced serious consequences for it? What if they fell to 3.3, or 3.0? What keeps 2Ls and 3Ls motivated enough to get anything above the minimum GPA to stay in good standing?


You really need to not worry about these things right now, I'm begging you.

It is incredibly rare to be no-offered for grades. I don't know anybody who was. That being said, it can't possibly help you for getting an offer or later on down the line (though likely won't hurt you much), and that, combined with law students being hyper Type A gunner drones, results in many people still working quite hard.

User avatar
5ky
Posts: 6400
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:10 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Wed May 29, 2013 10:32 pm

I don't know where anybody heard that a judicial internship is better than anything else for 1L summer, but that's Incorrect with a capital I. You aren't getting paid, and it's not more impressive than an SA, so on the two main prongs (benefit to you, signaling device to firms) it is inferior.

User avatar
Hspeaksfriend
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:18 am

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Hspeaksfriend » Wed May 29, 2013 11:17 pm

5ky wrote:I don't know where anybody heard that a judicial internship is better than anything else for 1L summer, but that's Incorrect with a capital I. You aren't getting paid, and it's not more impressive than an SA, so on the two main prongs (benefit to you, signaling device to firms) it is inferior.


I've heard from MULTIPLE law students/graduates that having a judicial internship looks better on your resume. Can someone who agrees with this chime in?

User avatar
Tom Joad
Posts: 4542
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Tom Joad » Wed May 29, 2013 11:26 pm

Hspeaksfriend wrote:
5ky wrote:I don't know where anybody heard that a judicial internship is better than anything else for 1L summer, but that's Incorrect with a capital I. You aren't getting paid, and it's not more impressive than an SA, so on the two main prongs (benefit to you, signaling device to firms) it is inferior.


I've heard from MULTIPLE law students/graduates that having a judicial internship looks better on your resume. Can someone who agrees with this chime in?

Question: did they do judicial internships?

User avatar
anon sequitur
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:14 am

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby anon sequitur » Wed May 29, 2013 11:35 pm

Hspeaksfriend wrote:Can someone who agrees with this chime in?


Lol.

Please just apply for both and worry about it next year.

dixon02
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:27 am

Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dixon02 » Wed May 29, 2013 11:37 pm

Hspeaksfriend wrote:
5ky wrote:I don't know where anybody heard that a judicial internship is better than anything else for 1L summer, but that's Incorrect with a capital I. You aren't getting paid, and it's not more impressive than an SA, so on the two main prongs (benefit to you, signaling device to firms) it is inferior.


I've heard from MULTIPLE law students/graduates that having a judicial internship looks better on your resume. Can someone who agrees with this chime in?


They lied to you.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest