UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby jawsthegreat » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:28 pm

walket wrote:The biggest question on my mind right now is if UVA is worth the risk. I'm considering applying but if I go, I'm gonna be expecting major loans (150k+). If I don't get a job coming out of law school, I'm in serious trouble (and I might be even if I do get a job). Would you guys recommend taking that risk? And is there any advice on how to get a scholarship to UVA (besides the GPA, LSAT, and URM stuff)


Well, you should probably apply first. Then worry about the risk if you get in.

Applying costs nothing.

005618502
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 005618502 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:29 pm

walket wrote:The biggest question on my mind right now is if UVA is worth the risk. I'm considering applying but if I go, I'm gonna be expecting major loans (150k+). If I don't get a job coming out of law school, I'm in serious trouble (and I might be even if I do get a job). Would you guys recommend taking that risk? And is there any advice on how to get a scholarship to UVA (besides the GPA, LSAT, and URM stuff)


Yeah man, you need to get in first.... Risk is all based on the person. I am not at full cost, but not far from it. If UVA were my best option (best school) I would be fine paying full cost, but only you know what you will be okay with.

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NotASpecialSnowflake
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby NotASpecialSnowflake » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:46 pm

Fair enough. I just met with a financial adviser and so I'm nervous about going to law school now. Is going to school and working part time possible? Like being a waiter or with an on campus job?

noobishned
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby noobishned » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:58 pm

How easy is it to get into the B-school after you have already been admitted to the law school? Also, what is a competitive LSAT score for admission to the B-school?

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:24 pm

walket wrote:Fair enough. I just met with a financial adviser and so I'm nervous about going to law school now. Is going to school and working part time possible? Like being a waiter or with an on campus job?


No, and no again. Certainly not in 1L. Don't even think about it, focus on grades and getting to know your classmates.

After 1L you can get a job in the library or something.

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:32 pm

noobishned wrote:How easy is it to get into the B-school after you have already been admitted to the law school? Also, what is a competitive LSAT score for admission to the B-school?


I've no idea how easy the process is or if they even look at grades. I can't really see why they would look at your LSAT when they could look at your entire 1L grades, but who knows - maybe that's what they do.

I'd say this though, if you want an MBA, apply to the business school directly. If you want to be a lawyer sit the LSAT.

You're not going to use your MBA as an associate, at least not in the first few years. If you get an in-house position later where the MBA might be useful, they should be paying for it for you then.

Think about it at interview time. If you go looking for MBA job they'll think you really want to be a lawyer, why else would you have spent all that extra time at school? Go looking for a legal associate position and they'll think you went into law school, quickly realized you don't want to be a lawyer and decided to diversify. They'll be scared they're going to pay off your loans over three or four years and then you're going to run to Microsoft or Amazon with your MBA as soon as you get fed up with doc review and 5am crisis calls from partners.

noobishned
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby noobishned » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:44 pm

albanach wrote:
noobishned wrote:How easy is it to get into the B-school after you have already been admitted to the law school? Also, what is a competitive LSAT score for admission to the B-school?


I've no idea how easy the process is or if they even look at grades. I can't really see why they would look at your LSAT when they could look at your entire 1L grades, but who knows - maybe that's what they do.

I'd say this though, if you want an MBA, apply to the business school directly. If you want to be a lawyer sit the LSAT.

You're not going to use your MBA as an associate, at least not in the first few years. If you get an in-house position later where the MBA might be useful, they should be paying for it for you then.

Think about it at interview time. If you go looking for MBA job they'll think you really want to be a lawyer, why else would you have spent all that extra time at school? Go looking for a legal associate position and they'll think you went into law school, quickly realized you don't want to be a lawyer and decided to diversify. They'll be scared they're going to pay off your loans over three or four years and then you're going to run to Microsoft or Amazon with your MBA as soon as you get fed up with doc review and 5am crisis calls from partners.


Awesome response. Thanks! I am just looking at it from the perspective of only spending 4 years more in school as opposed to going to law school then getting my MBA later.

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:52 pm

noobishned wrote:
Awesome response. Thanks! I am just looking at it from the perspective of only spending 4 years more in school as opposed to going to law school then getting my MBA later.


I'd say that's really only a good strategy if you're a non-trad student in their 30s. Then saving the year might make sense.

For everyone else, there's plenty of executive MBA programs that you can take later while you work and while the company is paying. Not only that, but you will get much much more out of a business degree if you've already gained all that real world business experience.

uvalol
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby uvalol » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:14 pm

When professors grade exams, do they grade one exam completely, and then move onto the next exam?

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plenipotentiary
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby plenipotentiary » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:18 pm

uvalol wrote:When professors grade exams, do they grade one exam completely, and then move onto the next exam?


Are you now worried that your exams are too long and your professors will get bored?

uvalol
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby uvalol » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:29 pm

lol why u mad tho

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:31 pm

I've only heard one professor explain how they grade. They said they take a random sample and mark them thoroughly. That lets them figure out a rough median.

Then they figure out how those papers compare against each other. Then other papers can be marked much more quickly and compared to the initial stack.

Most others probably use the stairs method, with up or down being simply a matter of personal preference.

dixon02
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dixon02 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:51 pm

Totally dep
uvalol wrote:When professors grade exams, do they grade one exam completely, and then move onto the next exam?


Totally depends on the professor. Some do it the way you suggest, by sitting down and grading through each exam. Some do it the way suggested above: pull out a sample, get a sense for the median, then go from there. Some grade question by question. So they read everyone's response to the first fact pattern, then everyone's response to the second, etc. Some do this, but with a random sample, so they set the median on each question.

And of course, some just kinda skim through and slap something down, while some never grade them at all. Law school is great.

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seahawk32
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby seahawk32 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:19 pm

FREEDOM

StanleyF
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby StanleyF » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:26 pm

albanach wrote:
noobishned wrote:How easy is it to get into the B-school after you have already been admitted to the law school? Also, what is a competitive LSAT score for admission to the B-school?


I've no idea how easy the process is or if they even look at grades. I can't really see why they would look at your LSAT when they could look at your entire 1L grades, but who knows - maybe that's what they do.

I'd say this though, if you want an MBA, apply to the business school directly. If you want to be a lawyer sit the LSAT.

You're not going to use your MBA as an associate, at least not in the first few years. If you get an in-house position later where the MBA might be useful, they should be paying for it for you then.

Think about it at interview time. If you go looking for MBA job they'll think you really want to be a lawyer, why else would you have spent all that extra time at school? Go looking for a legal associate position and they'll think you went into law school, quickly realized you don't want to be a lawyer and decided to diversify. They'll be scared they're going to pay off your loans over three or four years and then you're going to run to Microsoft or Amazon with your MBA as soon as you get fed up with doc review and 5am crisis calls from partners.


I disagree with this advice. I have no interest in getting an MBA, but I know a couple students doing the joint JD/MBA, and it makes sense if you want to work in finance. For example, Goldman Sachs recruits at the law school, and JD/MBAs will definitely have an edge over just JDs. Investment banks recruit separately at Darden, and they like to hire people with law degrees because investment banks have lots of legal issues. And if you want to work in a firm, a JD/MBA is going to be a good thing, not a bad thing. One of the senior associates I worked with a lot over the summer was a JD/MBA who was hired straight into the firm out of law school to do litigation. He gets to pick his assignments because partners who don't have a business background are eager to get him on their team.

So, if you want to do it, don't avoid it because you think it will make your job prospects worse. It won't. On the admissions side, it is harder to get into the law school then the business school, so the standard wisdom is that if you can get into the law school, you can get into the business school.

If you don't want to do the full JD/MBA thing, it is still possible to take classes at the business school as a UVa Law student.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:35 pm

The problem with that analysis is that your costs (extra year of education + tuition) probably don't line up well with your benefits (...maybe you get more say in assignments you get at the law firm?).

If you want to work at a bank, get an MBA. If you want to work at a firm, get a law degree. If you don't know which you want to work at, get a law degree because it's America's Great Fallback Option.

Every year people with 0 business background wind up at premier business law firms with just a UVA JD. And every year people get jobs at banks without law degrees. It is exceptionally hard to find the case where getting both degrees at once prior to having a career sets somebody on a trajectory they couldn't have landed on with just one degree.

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:52 pm

thesealocust wrote:Every year people with 0 business background wind up at premier business law firms with just a UVA JD. And every year people get jobs at banks without law degrees. It is exceptionally hard to find the case where getting both degrees at once prior to having a career sets somebody on a trajectory they couldn't have landed on with just one degree.


I agree entirely. I'd add that we do have a law and business program in the law school, so you can take heavily business focused courses if that's the sort of work you're after post-graduation. Sure you don't get an MBA, but you will be well versed on business law issues.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:36 pm

It's also key to remember that law firms have a training model that expects you to be clueless on day one. They don't have a strong preference for business background, they just want smart, pain-tolerant, sociable (or not socially retarded), trainable, bar-admitable bodies.

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YCrevolution
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby YCrevolution » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:30 pm

..

uvabro
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby uvabro » Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:42 pm

yo when do grades come out brahs?

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:39 pm

uvabro wrote:yo when do grades come out brahs?


Soonest: early January

Latest: early February

616rewind
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 616rewind » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:16 am

Were there firms recruiting 3Ls at OGI this year? I'm a 2L with an SA lined up but looking to switch markets after next summer for personal reasons. Unfortunately I'm not looking to switch to NY or DC. This possible?

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:06 am

616rewind wrote:Were there firms recruiting 3Ls at OGI this year? I'm a 2L with an SA lined up but looking to switch markets after next summer for personal reasons. Unfortunately I'm not looking to switch to NY or DC. This possible?


Yep. It's much lighter than 2L recruiting, but it happens. It's especially common amongst the largest NY firms.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:45 am

thesealocust wrote:It's also key to remember that law firms have a training model that expects you to be clueless on day one. They don't have a strong preference for business background, they just want smart, pain-tolerant, sociable (or not socially retarded), trainable, bar-admitable bodies.


For the liberal arts majors among us that want corporate work, this is a great thing.

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Cavalier
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Cavalier » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:49 am

616rewind wrote:Were there firms recruiting 3Ls at OGI this year? I'm a 2L with an SA lined up but looking to switch markets after next summer for personal reasons. Unfortunately I'm not looking to switch to NY or DC. This possible?

A handful of firms interview 3Ls but you can't rely on OGI. You should directly apply to all the firms in your desired market once the summer concludes and you have an offer. You might also apply for federal clerkships in that market depending on your grades; it will probably be easier to get hired out of a clerkship than as a 3L.




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