UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:31 pm

Tom Joad wrote:Somebody tell me an easy class to take for 1L Spring.


You could take PR and get that done with. Admittedly, it might not be the easiest time to take it, since I suspect almost every 3L has taken it at this point.

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Tom Joad
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Tom Joad » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:33 pm

albanach wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Somebody tell me an easy class to take for 1L Spring.


You could take PR and get that done with. Admittedly, it might not be the easiest time to take it, since I suspect almost every 3L has taken it at this point.

Ugh, leaning toward Evidence and something else. Was thinking about Corporate Finance/Accounting, but I have heard mixed reviews.

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:18 pm

Tom Joad wrote:Ugh, leaning toward Evidence and something else. Was thinking about Corporate Finance/Accounting, but I have heard mixed reviews.


If you are good - very good - with numbers, then go for it. If not, I'd stay well away. This is not a course where you can just 'keep up' and get a B+.

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Tom Joad
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Tom Joad » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:21 pm

albanach wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Ugh, leaning toward Evidence and something else. Was thinking about Corporate Finance/Accounting, but I have heard mixed reviews.


If you are good - very good - with numbers, then go for it. If not, I'd stay well away. This is not a course where you can just 'keep up' and get a B+.

Yeah, so now I am leaning toward Corporations with Kordana, but Evidence, Corporations, Property, and Con. Law sounds like lots of heavy lifting. I would prefer something that sounds substantive but is really actually easy.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:13 pm

Somewhere in this mess of a thread I have a big-ass guide to slacker courses, but those probably aren't ideal for a 1L.

Best advice is don't overthink it. You can't control your fate much by obsessing over curves or material. If you majored in poetry and feelings then accounting might be Bad Times, but beyond that just don't overload yourself and it'll be fine.

albanach
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby albanach » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:14 am

thesealocust wrote:TheSeaLocust's Grand Municipal Guide to Easy Classes:

(1) Homework seminars. Disregard subject matter, your interests, the course title, an the professor. Hunt out seminars that list the "requirements" as like 2 5 page essays or a pretty picture or something instead of an exam or a paper. It is SO easy to bang out response papers and SO annoying to write a long research paper or study for an exam.

(2) Courses taught by Leslie. These courses are arguably more useful than a real law school course. Look into the prof, because he won't be everyone's cup of tea, but the 'exam' he gives is impossible to study for. You get the law on the exam, and are expected to have 0 prior knowledge other than generally of how his case files work. If you attend even some classes, you will have to pit in 0 (not near 0, 0) effort to prepare for this final, it will just consume 3 hours of your life.

(3) Practical skills courses. Crap like hallmarks of distinguished advocacy. Stand around and talk about your feelings once per week? Yes please!

(4) Broadly speaking, courses about corporate law. The people who want to do corporate tend to be way less wound up than the people who don't, and that includes the professors. Corporations itself is basic enough to still attract some gunners, and accounting/CF can suck, but the seminars like "discuss your feelings about corporate governance" are usually golden.

(5) Directed research: If you have an in with a chill professor, doing some research for them for pass/fail credit can be seriously sweet. It might eat up a bit more time than some other things listed here, but with the same or more fringe benefits: no grade worrying, no pressure during finals.

(6) Seminar in Ethical Values: You can only get credit for 1, so be careful if you're a 2L. Otherwise you have no excuse not to take this joke of a class. Free food! Do research into what the free food is. You want the prof cooking you fancy meals or giving you win and cheese, not the prof ordering you pizza. These fill up FAST so if you want some profs make them your top choices.

If you choose mostly courses I described above, you can then pick 1 or 2 real classes and have WAY more time to prepare for each exam.

Classes that are the Opposite of Easy:

(1) Doctrinal classes. Look, after 1L you'll know how to do it, but it will still require studying, finding or making an outline, and possibly attending class. All of that sucks, so do it only if you really want or have to. Yeah, taking evidence with mitchell or crim pro with coughlin isn't a terrible idea objectively, but these aren't "easy" courses.

(2) Any course that somebody on law review would consider prestigious. Stay the hell away from fed courts, anything taught by collins, laycock, nelson, etc., conflict of laws, admin law, fancy pants con law courses, etc. It honestly won't be that much harder than a regular course, but it WILL be filled with more insufferable people asking more insufferable questions. They will also gun their faces off for the exam, so if you still care about grades (though you shouldn't) it might be worth a ninja dodge.

(3) Classes that have hard subject matter. Tax, accounting & corporate finance (depending on your background), and a few others are just harder material.

Classes that are hit or miss:

(1) Specific professors -- some are really easy or you work really well with, some are really hard. Picking the course based on the professor is often really hard.

(2) Clinics -- do your due diligence! Some are massive quagmires and some are really easy. I'd stay away as a personal choice, but just make sure you do your researhc.

(3) Independent study -- these can make you go crazy with guilt/procrastination, but require minimal time effort otherwise and are generally favorably graded if you can get in with the prof.

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pjo
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby pjo » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:35 am

Evidence would probably be good (although it's not with Mitchell, and Mitchell has the heavy B+ curve -> assuming that is what you want). Insurance with Abraham also has a very heavy B+ curve. I would assume Corporations would be fine to take as well.

I took 16 credits my 1L spring. It was "heavy lifting" but at the same time, 1L fall you're already taking 16 credits so you're used to it. I figured I would do 16 as a 1L rather than have to do 16 as a 3L when I won't want to be doing anything. I'm really glad I just bit the bullet and did a 3 and 4 credit class as my electives when many of my peers (and probably yours too) will just do a 2 and 4 or 3 credit class.

Also, I would recommend not doing a paper class as a 1L. Stick with fairly large class sizes and exams.

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Tom Joad
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Tom Joad » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:52 pm

Thanks for the advice, all.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:31 pm

I'll disagree re: Accounting/Corp Finance and say that if you are fairly competent with numbers, you'll be just fine. Corporate Finance could get a little dicey if you are really uncomfortable with numbers, but I think most people in the class are.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:45 pm

thesealocust wrote:Somewhere in this mess of a thread I have a big-ass guide to slacker courses, but those probably aren't ideal for a 1L.

Best advice is don't overthink it. You can't control your fate much by obsessing over curves or material. If you majored in poetry and feelings then accounting might be Bad Times, but beyond that just don't overload yourself and it'll be fine.


I'm going to disagree with this a little bit. But in a way I'm probably not disagreeing at all because I think you wrote this towards a person who is able to pull of A-s or better on exams.

If you aren't someone who can get A -'s and A's in your doctrinal classes you should do as many seminar/paper based courses as possible. You should also do J-term. This is because every B+ that you get is a career life line and will only improve your GPA. You want to do whatever you can to stay near the median. It's absolutely critical if you want a shot at firms (especially for those of you from the NYC and DC areas).

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:50 pm

^^^Yes, if you are well-below median, I would absolutely recommend trying to get in as many B+ likely classes you can find.

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Tom Joad
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Tom Joad » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:33 pm

Picking classes for 1L sucks because I don't know my grades and I don't know if I am good at exams.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:49 pm

Tom Joad wrote:Picking classes for 1L sucks because I don't know my grades and I don't know if I am good at exams.


It is tricky. But it's fairly easy to switch things around in the add/drop in January.

blahblewblah
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby blahblewblah » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:14 am

My advice re: accounting and finance is that if you are fairly comfortable with numbers and math, take these courses. There are a lot of people in the classes who are not familiar at all with the concepts. Plus it is a nice way to split up your credits- you get 2 out of the way halfway through, making it 2 less credits to study for during finals, and the finance test during finals is a nice change of pace compared to the other issue spotters you will be taking.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:40 am

thesealocust wrote:Somewhere in this mess of a thread I have a big-ass guide to slacker courses, but those probably aren't ideal for a 1L.



Want.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby bgdddymtty » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:54 am

paulinaporizkova wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Somewhere in this mess of a thread I have a big-ass guide to slacker courses, but those probably aren't ideal for a 1L.



Want.
Look back ten posts.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:06 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Somewhere in this mess of a thread I have a big-ass guide to slacker courses, but those probably aren't ideal for a 1L.



Want.


albanach wrote:
thesealocust wrote:TheSeaLocust's Grand Municipal Guide to Easy Classes:

(1) Homework seminars. Disregard subject matter, your interests, the course title, an the professor. Hunt out seminars that list the "requirements" as like 2 5 page essays or a pretty picture or something instead of an exam or a paper. It is SO easy to bang out response papers and SO annoying to write a long research paper or study for an exam.

(2) Courses taught by Leslie. These courses are arguably more useful than a real law school course. Look into the prof, because he won't be everyone's cup of tea, but the 'exam' he gives is impossible to study for. You get the law on the exam, and are expected to have 0 prior knowledge other than generally of how his case files work. If you attend even some classes, you will have to pit in 0 (not near 0, 0) effort to prepare for this final, it will just consume 3 hours of your life.

(3) Practical skills courses. Crap like hallmarks of distinguished advocacy. Stand around and talk about your feelings once per week? Yes please!

(4) Broadly speaking, courses about corporate law. The people who want to do corporate tend to be way less wound up than the people who don't, and that includes the professors. Corporations itself is basic enough to still attract some gunners, and accounting/CF can suck, but the seminars like "discuss your feelings about corporate governance" are usually golden.

(5) Directed research: If you have an in with a chill professor, doing some research for them for pass/fail credit can be seriously sweet. It might eat up a bit more time than some other things listed here, but with the same or more fringe benefits: no grade worrying, no pressure during finals.

(6) Seminar in Ethical Values: You can only get credit for 1, so be careful if you're a 2L. Otherwise you have no excuse not to take this joke of a class. Free food! Do research into what the free food is. You want the prof cooking you fancy meals or giving you win and cheese, not the prof ordering you pizza. These fill up FAST so if you want some profs make them your top choices.

If you choose mostly courses I described above, you can then pick 1 or 2 real classes and have WAY more time to prepare for each exam.

Classes that are the Opposite of Easy:

(1) Doctrinal classes. Look, after 1L you'll know how to do it, but it will still require studying, finding or making an outline, and possibly attending class. All of that sucks, so do it only if you really want or have to. Yeah, taking evidence with mitchell or crim pro with coughlin isn't a terrible idea objectively, but these aren't "easy" courses.

(2) Any course that somebody on law review would consider prestigious. Stay the hell away from fed courts, anything taught by collins, laycock, nelson, etc., conflict of laws, admin law, fancy pants con law courses, etc. It honestly won't be that much harder than a regular course, but it WILL be filled with more insufferable people asking more insufferable questions. They will also gun their faces off for the exam, so if you still care about grades (though you shouldn't) it might be worth a ninja dodge.

(3) Classes that have hard subject matter. Tax, accounting & corporate finance (depending on your background), and a few others are just harder material.

Classes that are hit or miss:

(1) Specific professors -- some are really easy or you work really well with, some are really hard. Picking the course based on the professor is often really hard.

(2) Clinics -- do your due diligence! Some are massive quagmires and some are really easy. I'd stay away as a personal choice, but just make sure you do your researhc.

(3) Independent study -- these can make you go crazy with guilt/procrastination, but require minimal time effort otherwise and are generally favorably graded if you can get in with the prof.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:31 pm

Want to point out that SeaLocust is probably currently on a self-made raft in the middle of a midtown Manhattan street, with 10% iPhone battery power left, making sure that UVa 1Ls know what classes to take. God bless that man/woman/locust.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:24 pm

We lost cell service. How is that even possible?! The apocalypse sucks.

(Taking refuge with friends from what we have dubbed the "green zone" - north of 39th street has power / society still)

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pjo
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby pjo » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:42 am

Do we have to wait to the end of the semester to get our short course grades or could they show up at any time?

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bgdddymtty
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby bgdddymtty » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:19 am

pjo wrote:Do we have to wait to the end of the semester to get our short course grades or could they show up at any time?

They could show up whenever.

616rewind
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 616rewind » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:59 pm

Anybody know good hornbooks for Corporations with Kitch and/or Bankruptcy with Walt? Thanks.

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chem
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby chem » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:51 pm

1L. Going to try to take Evidence. Would I be killing myself adding on Admin, Antitrust, or Fed Income Tax? Im hoping the dearth of 1Ls in these classes will make it less competitive, even if its harder substantively.

Thoughts?

dixon02
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dixon02 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:14 pm

chem wrote:1L. Going to try to take Evidence. Would I be killing myself adding on Admin, Antitrust, or Fed Income Tax? Im hoping the dearth of 1Ls in these classes will make it less competitive, even if its harder substantively.

Thoughts?


Don't take Admin as a 1L. There's a reason ConLaw is a pre-req for Duffy's section. Don't know much about Nachbar, so can't say on Antitrust. Evidence is not a work-intensive class in general (it's almost entirely rules-based), so I wouldn't sweat what else you take. I don't think Evidence + Tax is an unmanageable workload, as long as you're up for an intense semester.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:19 pm

chem wrote:1L. Going to try to take Evidence. Would I be killing myself adding on Admin, Antitrust, or Fed Income Tax? Im hoping the dearth of 1Ls in these classes will make it less competitive, even if its harder substantively.

Thoughts?


Admin: No. Just no.

Antitrust: There are probably better ideas.

Tax: Meh. Nothing inherently wrong with it, but it's a very different (heavily statutory) kind of course.

From experience and chatting with a professor who pontificated about it once, the difference between 1Ls/2Ls in classes amounts to a wash. 1Ls are more clueless but try harder, 2Ls have a much better idea of what's up but as a group try way less hard.

3Ls are all in Leslie classes and homework seminars, so it's not really an issue.




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