UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Cavalier
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Cavalier » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:40 pm

pjo wrote:Has anyone taken Fed Income Tax with Robinson and care to comment on the class (or pm me)? I can't believe PR with Balnave is filled, and I ranked it 2nd.

Also, would it be a bad idea to take securities reg in Fall as a 2L, or would that be a bad idea because of call backs?

I don't think sec reg is unusually hard, but it's based almost entirely on statutes and regulations (there are like two cases of any importance), so it might be a lot different than anything else you've taken. I'd say there probably aren't any individual classes worth avoiding 2L fall; you should simply avoid taking several hard classes together--for example, sec reg, Cohen's PR, evidence, and federal courts probably wouldn't be a wise combo.

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vamedic03
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:42 pm

pjo wrote:Has anyone taken Fed Income Tax with Robinson and care to comment on the class (or pm me)? I can't believe PR with Balnave is filled, and I ranked it 2nd.

Also, would it be a bad idea to take securities reg in Fall as a 2L, or would that be a bad idea because of call backs?


I have heard that the best two (i.e., only two) professors for fed tax are Yin and Yale. I can attest that Yin is a good lecturer and tends to keep the concepts simple. He focuses on understanding the concepts over doing the math.

If Mahoney is going to teach securities during your 3L, I might try to hold out. Otherwise, it's no harder than any other statute based class (certainly easier than tax, fed courts, admin, or legislation).

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:05 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
5ky wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Just a reminder to keep things in context: your GPA is waaaay more important than Law Review and many people who grade onto Law Review don't get Coif while some people who don't grade onto Law Review get Coif.


Where does the Coif cutoff fall, generally?


Supposedly low to mid 3.6's. Everyone's gpa's drop over the course of 3 years.


Gotcha, so is it top 10%? I was unclear whether it was a class percentile or GPA boundary. Thanks.

e: ty
Last edited by 5ky on Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vamedic03
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:09 pm

5ky wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
5ky wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Just a reminder to keep things in context: your GPA is waaaay more important than Law Review and many people who grade onto Law Review don't get Coif while some people who don't grade onto Law Review get Coif.


Where does the Coif cutoff fall, generally?


Supposedly low to mid 3.6's. Everyone's gpa's drop over the course of 3 years.


Gotcha, so is it top 10%? I was unclear whether it was a class percentile or GPA boundary. Thanks.


Top 10% at the end of all 6 semesters.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:10 pm

pjo wrote:Has anyone taken Fed Income Tax with Robinson and care to comment on the class (or pm me)? I can't believe PR with Balnave is filled, and I ranked it 2nd.

Also, would it be a bad idea to take securities reg in Fall as a 2L, or would that be a bad idea because of call backs?


Outside of taking four very difficult doctrinal classes, I don't think you particularly have to worry about class selection for the fall. I actually found that it was somewhat helpful taking a few core classes, such as Evidence/Corps/SecReg/Secured Transactions/Tax etc., because outlines and supplements will be more plentiful for you in case you miss a lot.

Of course, you will want to make sure you don't take too many.

dixon02
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dixon02 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:23 pm

I would add that Evidence with Mitchell is basically the perfect class to take during OGI. He doesn't care about attendance in the least, class is mostly a regurgitation of the rules, and falling behind is no big deal. He basically ignores cases, so you barely even need to read. If you haven't taken it yet, this is probably the time to do so.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby bgdddymtty » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:05 am

dixon02 wrote:I would add that Evidence with Mitchell is basically the perfect class to take during OGI. He doesn't care about attendance in the least, class is mostly a regurgitation of the rules, and falling behind is no big deal. He basically ignores cases, so you barely even need to read. If you haven't taken it yet, this is probably the time to do so.

Also, Morley's Trusts & Estates. He records every class, and his PowerPoint deck serves as a good outline.

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pjo
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby pjo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:05 am

I understand what everyone is saying about not taking 4 difficult courses all in the fall, but what classes are considered "easy" in law school? I guess my problem is trying to figure out "filler" classes to mix in with the more difficult classes. For instance, I was thinking of taking the following: Corps (morley); T&E (morley); Sec. Reg (Curtis); and then two 1 credit short courses, one meeting in Sept. the other in Oct.

Heat
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Heat » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:03 am

pjo wrote:I understand what everyone is saying about not taking 4 difficult courses all in the fall, but what classes are considered "easy" in law school? I guess my problem is trying to figure out "filler" classes to mix in with the more difficult classes. For instance, I was thinking of taking the following: Corps (morley); T&E (morley); Sec. Reg (Curtis); and then two 1 credit short courses, one meeting in Sept. the other in Oct.


I'm a 2L like you but it seems to me that a short cause in September could be a problem for you. If you have to miss classes for callbacks and there are a very limited amount of classes its going to hurt a lot more.

Apple Tree
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Apple Tree » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:09 am

Has anyone taken classes with Walt before? I'm thinking about taking sec. trans and/or bankruptcy. Any comments?

Also, for the writing requirement is it a good idea to do a research paper under direct study? I feel like not having to go to class would be a major bonus.

t-ender
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby t-ender » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:36 am

Apple Tree wrote:Has anyone taken classes with Walt before? I'm thinking about taking sec. trans and/or bankruptcy. Any comments?

Also, for the writing requirement is it a good idea to do a research paper under direct study? I feel like not having to go to class would be a major bonus.


I am also thinking about taking Bankruptcy / Secured Transactions with Walt and would be interested to know what people think about him.

For a 2L who will be busy with journals and OGI this semester, does this sound like a decent schedule:

Bankruptcy - Walt
Criminal Investigations - Armacost
Trusts and Estates - Morley
Evidence - Mitchell

Also, do all of these professors allow laptops?

Thanks to all the 3Ls helping us out!

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:22 am

TheSeaLocust's Grand Municipal Guide to Easy Classes:

(1) Homework seminars. Disregard subject matter, your interests, the course title, an the professor. Hunt out seminars that list the "requirements" as like 2 5 page essays or a pretty picture or something instead of an exam or a paper. It is SO easy to bang out response papers and SO annoying to write a long research paper or study for an exam.

(2) Courses taught by Leslie. These courses are arguably more useful than a real law school course. Look into the prof, because he won't be everyone's cup of tea, but the 'exam' he gives is impossible to study for. You get the law on the exam, and are expected to have 0 prior knowledge other than generally of how his case files work. If you attend even some classes, you will have to pit in 0 (not near 0, 0) effort to prepare for this final, it will just consume 3 hours of your life.

(3) Practical skills courses. Crap like hallmarks of distinguished advocacy. Stand around and talk about your feelings once per week? Yes please!

(4) Broadly speaking, courses about corporate law. The people who want to do corporate tend to be way less wound up than the people who don't, and that includes the professors. Corporations itself is basic enough to still attract some gunners, and accounting/CF can suck, but the seminars like "discuss your feelings about corporate governance" are usually golden.

(5) Directed research: If you have an in with a chill professor, doing some research for them for pass/fail credit can be seriously sweet. It might eat up a bit more time than some other things listed here, but with the same or more fringe benefits: no grade worrying, no pressure during finals.

(6) Seminar in Ethical Values: You can only get credit for 1, so be careful if you're a 2L. Otherwise you have no excuse not to take this joke of a class. Free food! Do research into what the free food is. You want the prof cooking you fancy meals or giving you win and cheese, not the prof ordering you pizza. These fill up FAST so if you want some profs make them your top choices.

If you choose mostly courses I described above, you can then pick 1 or 2 real classes and have WAY more time to prepare for each exam.

Classes that are the Opposite of Easy:

(1) Doctrinal classes. Look, after 1L you'll know how to do it, but it will still require studying, finding or making an outline, and possibly attending class. All of that sucks, so do it only if you really want or have to. Yeah, taking evidence with mitchell or crim pro with coughlin isn't a terrible idea objectively, but these aren't "easy" courses.

(2) Any course that somebody on law review would consider prestigious. Stay the hell away from fed courts, anything taught by collins, laycock, nelson, etc., conflict of laws, admin law, fancy pants con law courses, etc. It honestly won't be that much harder than a regular course, but it WILL be filled with more insufferable people asking more insufferable questions. They will also gun their faces off for the exam, so if you still care about grades (though you shouldn't) it might be worth a ninja dodge.

(3) Classes that have hard subject matter. Tax, accounting & corporate finance (depending on your background), and a few others are just harder material.

Classes that are hit or miss:

(1) Specific professors -- some are really easy or you work really well with, some are really hard. Picking the course based on the professor is often really hard.

(2) Clinics -- do your due diligence! Some are massive quagmires and some are really easy. I'd stay away as a personal choice, but just make sure you do your researhc.

(3) Independent study -- these can make you go crazy with guilt/procrastination, but require minimal time effort otherwise and are generally favorably graded if you can get in with the prof.

sherpaorlawschool
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby sherpaorlawschool » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:59 pm

sealocust, where does Jurisprudence with Barzun go on this list? It seems like it would be a course that would attract gunners, but the requirement is three 6-7 page essays. Thanks.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:17 pm

sherpaorlawschool wrote:sealocust, where does Jurisprudence with Barzun go on this list? It seems like it would be a course that would attract gunners, but the requirement is three 6-7 page essays. Thanks.


Definitely a gray area. ARGUE BOTH SIDES LOL. It gets the thumbs up for easy/low stress and a thumb sidewise or down for avoiding annoying people or harsh curves. I almost took it, but didn't. The people I know who took it thought it was cool/fine.

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Cavalier
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Cavalier » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:48 pm

sherpaorlawschool wrote:sealocust, where does Jurisprudence with Barzun go on this list? It seems like it would be a course that would attract gunners, but the requirement is three 6-7 page essays. Thanks.

I don't think it'll attract gunners; Schauer's Jurisprudence courses always did, but that's because of Schauer. One complaint I heard about the course is that the essays were assigned and due late in the semester (IIRC, one was due just before finals began, and the last was due at the end of the finals period), so unlike most other paper courses, there was more unavoidable work during finals time than expected.

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:18 pm

Hello UVAers...one of our new faculty (at NU), a Joshua Fischman is coming from your school. Any thoughts or experiences with him? I'm considering taking admin with him in the fall. Thanks!

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bgdddymtty
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby bgdddymtty » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:21 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:Hello UVAers...one of our new faculty (at NU), a Joshua Fischman is coming from your school. Any thoughts or experiences with him? I'm considering taking admin with him in the fall. Thanks!

I haven't had Fischman for a traditional law class, but I took Quantitative Methods from him last semester. He was an engaging, interactive lecturer and displayed a solid mastery of the material. I'd take another class with him.

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:27 am

bgdddymtty wrote:
Eugenie Danglars wrote:Hello UVAers...one of our new faculty (at NU), a Joshua Fischman is coming from your school. Any thoughts or experiences with him? I'm considering taking admin with him in the fall. Thanks!

I haven't had Fischman for a traditional law class, but I took Quantitative Methods from him last semester. He was an engaging, interactive lecturer and displayed a solid mastery of the material. I'd take another class with him.


Cool- thanks for the info!

t-ender
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby t-ender » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:15 am

Does anyone know where the list of JAG classes is located? I checked the current course list on the law school website but did not see any and the JAG school does not appear to have a website.

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seahawk32
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby seahawk32 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:32 am

0L here. When and how do we get access to LawWeb?

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MrSparkle
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby MrSparkle » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:13 am

Got an email late June, for both LawWeb and some Windows NT account. It contains an account name (same as your SIS) and a temp password. Contact IT/admissions?

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sn20
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby sn20 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:48 am

Trying to plan my winter break for a family vacation. What are short courses and do 1L's ever take them?

EDIT: More specifically: Do you pay to take them? Are they graded? Would you recommend doing it? Some of them sound pretty interesting.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Gecko of Doom » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:10 pm

sn20 wrote:Trying to plan my winter break for a family vacation. What are short courses and do 1L's ever take them?

EDIT: More specifically: Do you pay to take them? Are they graded? Would you recommend doing it? Some of them sound pretty interesting.

There are short courses that meet over January, and 1L's do take them. I didn't, so I can't comment any more specifically.

However, when planning for winter break, keep in mind that there's a fairly large chance that your 1L summer work will be unpaid. If you want to get funding for public interest work over the summer, you may need to get pro bono hours in during winter break so that you can qualify for a PILA grant. Getting that bit of extra money can be pretty helpful.

Heat
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Heat » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:37 pm

Gecko of Doom wrote:
sn20 wrote:Trying to plan my winter break for a family vacation. What are short courses and do 1L's ever take them?

EDIT: More specifically: Do you pay to take them? Are they graded? Would you recommend doing it? Some of them sound pretty interesting.

There are short courses that meet over January, and 1L's do take them. I didn't, so I can't comment any more specifically.

However, when planning for winter break, keep in mind that there's a fairly large chance that your 1L summer work will be unpaid. If you want to get funding for public interest work over the summer, you may need to get pro bono hours in during winter break so that you can qualify for a PILA grant. Getting that bit of extra money can be pretty helpful.


Just to add to that. I have also heard of people using pro bono work to establish ties to a market. I also know of at least one person who did pro bono work over winter break and got a job offer for the summer out of it. I would think this point is especially strong if your K-JD because you'll probably need things to make your resume look prettier.

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vamedic03
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby vamedic03 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:36 pm

sn20 wrote:Trying to plan my winter break for a family vacation. What are short courses and do 1L's ever take them?

EDIT: More specifically: Do you pay to take them? Are they graded? Would you recommend doing it? Some of them sound pretty interesting.


They're included in your tuition. They are graded (except for the trial ad college - requires you to have taken trial ad already). I would probably recommend them - if you take 1 credit every year, it means one less class you have to take during 3L spring semester. The key is to only take ones that require either: (a) a 1 hour exam (admiralty) or (b) a short response paper (textualism). This may be a plus or a minus, but they all tend to be pretty B+ heavy unless it's a seminar that gets stacked with VLR people bumping the curve. One warning - they do tend to be pretty heavy reading for that 1 week.




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