UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby jawsthegreat » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:28 am

desertlaw wrote:
Doritos wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
A Swift wrote:OK, once and for all. Do 2L grades matter?

If you don't intend on clerking and plan to head straight to a firm, they don't matter much. No-offers for low grades don't occur. But keep in mind that there's still a lot of instability in the legal economy, and you might find yourself looking your new employment sooner than you think--for example, if your firm collapses like Dewey or Howrey. You shouldn't stress over grades but you shouldn't let them tank either if you can avoid it.


What a terrible thing for me to read at this point. Just terrible.


Be Calm & Go Look At That Excel Sheet We Made.


Do share

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Doritos
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Doritos » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:42 am

jawsthegreat wrote:
desertlaw wrote:
Doritos wrote:
Cavalier wrote:If you don't intend on clerking and plan to head straight to a firm, they don't matter much. No-offers for low grades don't occur. But keep in mind that there's still a lot of instability in the legal economy, and you might find yourself looking your new employment sooner than you think--for example, if your firm collapses like Dewey or Howrey. You shouldn't stress over grades but you shouldn't let them tank either if you can avoid it.


What a terrible thing for me to read at this point. Just terrible.


Be Calm & Go Look At That Excel Sheet We Made.


Do share


Possible grade outcomes. Kill self bad, bad, OK, good, and most likely. Our resulting GPAs and any drop/increase from when we got our summer offer

$$$$$$
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby $$$$$$ » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:48 am

desertlaw wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
dailygrind wrote:From what I can gather, the US law school class of 2012 walked into a collective buzz saw at OCI. Our year was supposedly better, and your year should be better still. I hope.


To those who remember class of 2011's OGI (in fall 2009), class of 2012 had a peachy time of it. The percentage of people getting SA jobs at high-paying firms went from ~45% to more like ~60%. Class of 2013 is probably 65% to 70%.

Still not back to the boom days of 80% or better. We'll probably never get there.



60-70% thru OGI or just got firm jobs regardless of method? I'm skeptical of both but moreso of the former. I could be wrong though.


Yea, how could you possibly know this? Just knowing how many people firms are taking in general, there is no way 70% of 2013 got OGI firm jobs. Most firms are still hiring half the kids they were back in 07/08. Every single hiring partner I've spoken to has told me that its not that great for our year still.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:47 pm

Solve all problems by not checking your grades after 1L year. Refuse to play into Law School's efforts to make you a wound-up paranoid wreck over arbitrary things you can't control anyway.

To put it differently, they can't breathalize you if you have no face.

Fear of loss is the path to the darkside etc.

Let go.

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pjo
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby pjo » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:55 pm

$$$$$$ wrote:
desertlaw wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
dailygrind wrote:From what I can gather, the US law school class of 2012 walked into a collective buzz saw at OCI. Our year was supposedly better, and your year should be better still. I hope.


To those who remember class of 2011's OGI (in fall 2009), class of 2012 had a peachy time of it. The percentage of people getting SA jobs at high-paying firms went from ~45% to more like ~60%. Class of 2013 is probably 65% to 70%.

Still not back to the boom days of 80% or better. We'll probably never get there.



60-70% thru OGI or just got firm jobs regardless of method? I'm skeptical of both but moreso of the former. I could be wrong though.


Yea, how could you possibly know this? Just knowing how many people firms are taking in general, there is no way 70% of 2013 got OGI firm jobs. Most firms are still hiring half the kids they were back in 07/08. Every single hiring partner I've spoken to has told me that its not that great for our year still.


IDK about percentages and whatnot, but I know the difference between SA callbacks for class of 2012 compared to class of 2013 was a tenth of a GPA point. Also, I'm only interested in secondary markets so idk about major markets, but data from CSO has avg. callbacks for secondary markets in 2012 at 3.3-3.4, class of 2013 avg. call backs dropped to 3.2-3.3, some markets were calling back ppl who had high 3.0's. So yeah, I would believe 65% firm jobs through OGI for class of 2013.

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sn20
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby sn20 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:04 pm

What is median at UVA?

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:00 pm

sn20 wrote:What is median at UVA?


Somewhere in the 3.33 range? Maybe it's just 3.3? I'm not exactly sure. All profs must give B+ median curve, which is a 3.3 I believe. I haven't been helpful thus far.

These are somewhat common knowledge for 1L-grades.

3.48 - top 25%

3.65 - top 10%

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Doritos
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Doritos » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:08 pm

sn20 wrote:What is median at UVA?


Why?

All that matters is your rank relative to other people so if median was a 2.5 it would make no difference.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:17 pm

desertlaw wrote:
sn20 wrote:What is median at UVA?


Somewhere in the 3.33 range? Maybe it's just 3.3? I'm not exactly sure. All profs must give B+ median curve, which is a 3.3 I believe. I haven't been helpful thus far.

These are somewhat common knowledge for 1L-grades.

3.48 - top 25%

3.65 - top 10%


Yeah, it's a bit above 3.3, as others have stated a number of pages back. 3.32 - 3.33 is probably a good guess for the median 1L GPA.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby jawsthegreat » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:24 pm

Is there anyway I can find out exactly where I rank in the class(ex: just roll into KDs office and ask)

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:26 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:Is there anyway I can find out exactly where I rank in the class(ex: just roll into KDs office and ask)


CSO has a list and Dean Hopson can usually be relied upon to divulge the information from his spreadsheet, even though they aren't supposed to.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:40 pm

thesealocust wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:Is there anyway I can find out exactly where I rank in the class(ex: just roll into KDs office and ask)


CSO has a list and Dean Hopson can usually be relied upon to divulge the information from his spreadsheet, even though they aren't supposed to.


I want to know if anyone's GPA has dropped as much as mine has.

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Doritos
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Doritos » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:00 pm

desertlaw wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:Is there anyway I can find out exactly where I rank in the class(ex: just roll into KDs office and ask)


CSO has a list and Dean Hopson can usually be relied upon to divulge the information from his spreadsheet, even though they aren't supposed to.


I want to know if anyone's GPA has dropped as much as mine has.


That should be an award. Like the ones they give students with the highest GPA after a certain number of semesters. There should be a "biggest drop" award presented by Biltmore.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:08 pm

Doritos wrote:
desertlaw wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:Is there anyway I can find out exactly where I rank in the class(ex: just roll into KDs office and ask)


CSO has a list and Dean Hopson can usually be relied upon to divulge the information from his spreadsheet, even though they aren't supposed to.


I want to know if anyone's GPA has dropped as much as mine has.


That should be an award. Like the ones they give students with the highest GPA after a certain number of semesters. There should be a "biggest drop" award presented by Biltmore.



Prize is a DC-10 from Wings Over, and a drink at Three named after you. "Drop Shot"

Morgan12Oak
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Morgan12Oak » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:23 pm

I'd like to informally throw my hat in the running for the GPA drop award. So far I've "only" dropped .14 but thats only one semester so I expect that to double.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:43 pm

Morgan12Oak wrote:I'd like to informally throw my hat in the running for the GPA drop award. So far I've "only" dropped .14 but thats only one semester so I expect that to double.


If we're talking cumulative drop from end of 1L until end of 2L, I'd put my drop against anyone's...

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:40 am

desertlaw wrote:
Morgan12Oak wrote:I'd like to informally throw my hat in the running for the GPA drop award. So far I've "only" dropped .14 but thats only one semester so I expect that to double.


UVa really is a "competitive" school...


Bah Welz
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Bah Welz » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:31 am

What's the perception of JD/MA at UVA? Should I only worry about it if I do well during 1L?

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:44 am

Bah Welz wrote:What's the perception of JD/MA at UVA? Should I only worry about it if I do well during 1L?



What are you getting your masters in, and what do you hope to do with your life? A JD/MA in Philosophy might give you the inside track at teaching "Law and Philosophy" at a small college, but we need you to clarify what you want.

Bah Welz
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Bah Welz » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:04 am

desertlaw wrote:
Bah Welz wrote:What's the perception of JD/MA at UVA? Should I only worry about it if I do well during 1L?



What are you getting your masters in, and what do you hope to do with your life? A JD/MA in Philosophy might give you the inside track at teaching "Law and Philosophy" at a small college, but we need you to clarify what you want.


Sorry JD/MA History, I'm not really set on anything per se, just wondering about perceptions of the dual degree programs. Are they just for academic wannabes?

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:21 am

Bah Welz wrote:
desertlaw wrote:
Bah Welz wrote:What's the perception of JD/MA at UVA? Should I only worry about it if I do well during 1L?



What are you getting your masters in, and what do you hope to do with your life? A JD/MA in Philosophy might give you the inside track at teaching "Law and Philosophy" at a small college, but we need you to clarify what you want.


Sorry JD/MA History, I'm not really set on anything per se, just wondering about perceptions of the dual degree programs. Are they just for academic wannabes?


If you're coming to law school to find an ordinary legal job, I doubt a MA in History would help, but I'm not sure it would hurt either. It just might look odd to employers, but good 1L grades would make up for that I suppose. (Only way it might hurt is if it takes you an extra year, because that would throw off the typical firm planning of "He'll be a 2L this summer, so he'll be working with us in Fall of next year after he graduates.")

But if you're coming to law school because you want to be a scholar/teacher, then maybe an MA in History would be cool? Or if parents/scholarship/trustfund is paying for law school, then getting an MA in an interesting field could be seen as less of a bad idea.

005618502
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 005618502 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:21 am

desertlaw wrote:
Bah Welz wrote:What's the perception of JD/MA at UVA? Should I only worry about it if I do well during 1L?



What are you getting your masters in, and what do you hope to do with your life? A JD/MA in Philosophy might give you the inside track at teaching "Law and Philosophy" at a small college, but we need you to clarify what you want.


Basically we got a talk about the JD/MA (in history) from a con law professor at ASW and she made it sound pretty good and inferred that it helps with clerkships and overall job placement. Thats likely where the ? is coming from.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:18 am

AssumptionRequired wrote:
Basically we got a talk about the JD/MA (in history) from a con law professor at ASW and she made it sound pretty good and inferred that it helps with clerkships and overall job placement. Thats likely where the ? is coming from.


Interesting. I suppose you could spin any past/present academic or work experience in a favorable light, but I'm just not sure it's going to give you a huge boost. I'm guessing that prof also had outstanding grades and could interview/write well, so who knows how helpful the MA in History was.

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catholicgirl
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby catholicgirl » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:31 am

desertlaw wrote:
Bah Welz wrote:
desertlaw wrote:
Bah Welz wrote:What's the perception of JD/MA at UVA? Should I only worry about it if I do well during 1L?



What are you getting your masters in, and what do you hope to do with your life? A JD/MA in Philosophy might give you the inside track at teaching "Law and Philosophy" at a small college, but we need you to clarify what you want.


Sorry JD/MA History, I'm not really set on anything per se, just wondering about perceptions of the dual degree programs. Are they just for academic wannabes?


If you're coming to law school to find an ordinary legal job, I doubt a MA in History would help, but I'm not sure it would hurt either. It just might look odd to employers, but good 1L grades would make up for that I suppose. (Only way it might hurt is if it takes you an extra year, because that would throw off the typical firm planning of "He'll be a 2L this summer, so he'll be working with us in Fall of next year after he graduates.")

But if you're coming to law school because you want to be a scholar/teacher, then maybe an MA in History would be cool? Or if parents/scholarship/trustfund is paying for law school, then getting an MA in an interesting field could be seen as less of a bad idea.


Eh, I spoke with a few of the professors in charge of the dual degree program in history. They said you can do it in 3 years and it all depends on how you spin it in interviews if you want big-law employment.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:30 pm

MA in anything isn't going to help you get 98% of jobs. You might enjoy the program, you might have your heart set on the 2% it will help with, etc. But in reality it's just praying on the lingering belief that more degrees = more success / more opportunities that a lot of people hold. Similar to how picking a major felt like a decision of earth shattering importance at the time but turned out to matter very little in the real world (especially if your post-UG course went through law school).




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