UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:19 am

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Curious what other people think about UVA hiring its own graduates temporarily to boost its ranking:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2549157393


pretty solid. hoping for one of these positions after graduation with a lateral into international law.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:23 am

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Curious what other people think about UVA hiring its own graduates temporarily to boost its ranking:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2549157393


pretty solid. hoping for one of these positions after graduation with a lateral into international law.


Nice.

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dailygrind
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dailygrind » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:32 am

Don't know that it's to boost our rankings. I'd be pretty stoked about it if I were in a position to need the help.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:34 am

dailygrind wrote:Don't know that it's to boost our rankings. I'd be pretty stoked about it if I were in a position to need the help.


I agree it's a win-win, but you have to be hitting the kool-aid pretty hard if you don't think it's about boosting the rankings.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:34 am

dailygrind wrote:Don't know that it's to boost our rankings. I'd be pretty stoked about it if I were in a position to need the help.


You have to wonder though: would they put more effort into getting you a non-UVA-paid job if UVA-paid jobs didn't count for employment purposes in the USNWR rankings? I think they would.

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dailygrind
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dailygrind » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:36 am

5ky wrote:
dailygrind wrote:Don't know that it's to boost our rankings. I'd be pretty stoked about it if I were in a position to need the help.


I agree it's a win-win, but you have to be hitting the kool-aid pretty hard if you don't think it's about boosting the rankings.


I mean, do I think it's a factor? Sure, it's gotta at least be at the back of everyone's minds. But a primary motivation?

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:38 am

dailygrind wrote:
5ky wrote:
dailygrind wrote:Don't know that it's to boost our rankings. I'd be pretty stoked about it if I were in a position to need the help.


I agree it's a win-win, but you have to be hitting the kool-aid pretty hard if you don't think it's about boosting the rankings.


I mean, do I think it's a factor? Sure, it's gotta at least be at the back of everyone's minds. But a primary motivation?


In my opinion, yes. UVA's gaming of medians via the ED tells me just how hard they play that game.

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Cavalier
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Cavalier » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:57 am

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Curious what other people think about UVA hiring its own graduates temporarily to boost its ranking:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2549157393

I assume this figure (11%) refers to the students who receive $2500/month stipends from UVA in exchange for taking any unpaid legal position. I have nothing but praise for the program. Sure, UVA is motivated somewhat by the rankings, but UVA is also much more generous than it needs to be. Last spring they told every unemployed 3L they would pay for most of the costs of bar registration and a bar prep course--which doesn't do anything for the rankings--and $2500/month is a lot more money than hiring unemployed graduates to be research assistants for $10/hour for a maximum of 10 hours/week, for example. Plus the program seems to be helping the students: last August 100 students (27%) were receiving the stipend, so if only 11% are still receiving the stipend nine months after graduation, more than half must have found permanent jobs. Two of the students I know who were on the stipend found good jobs through the connections they made at their unpaid positions--connections they would never have made if they were just employed by UVA as research assistants. This isn't just about gaming the rankings.

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catholicgirl
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby catholicgirl » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:44 am

Cavalier wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Curious what other people think about UVA hiring its own graduates temporarily to boost its ranking:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2549157393

I assume this figure (11%) refers to the students who receive $2500/month stipends from UVA in exchange for taking any unpaid legal position. I have nothing but praise for the program. Sure, UVA is motivated somewhat by the rankings, but UVA is also much more generous than it needs to be. Last spring they told every unemployed 3L they would pay for most of the costs of bar registration and a bar prep course--which doesn't do anything for the rankings--and $2500/month is a lot more money than hiring unemployed graduates to be research assistants for $10/hour for a maximum of 10 hours/week, for example. Plus the program seems to be helping the students: last August 100 students (27%) were receiving the stipend, so if only 11% are still receiving the stipend nine months after graduation, more than half must have found permanent jobs. Two of the students I know who were on the stipend found good jobs through the connections they made at their unpaid positions--connections they would never have made if they were just employed by UVA as research assistants. This isn't just about gaming the rankings.


Ugh re-reading the ATL article sent chills up my spine. Do you remember if there was any rhyme or reason to the students who didn't get jobs? Or was it completely random?

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chem
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby chem » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:59 am

catholicgirl wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Curious what other people think about UVA hiring its own graduates temporarily to boost its ranking:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2549157393

I assume this figure (11%) refers to the students who receive $2500/month stipends from UVA in exchange for taking any unpaid legal position. I have nothing but praise for the program. Sure, UVA is motivated somewhat by the rankings, but UVA is also much more generous than it needs to be. Last spring they told every unemployed 3L they would pay for most of the costs of bar registration and a bar prep course--which doesn't do anything for the rankings--and $2500/month is a lot more money than hiring unemployed graduates to be research assistants for $10/hour for a maximum of 10 hours/week, for example. Plus the program seems to be helping the students: last August 100 students (27%) were receiving the stipend, so if only 11% are still receiving the stipend nine months after graduation, more than half must have found permanent jobs. Two of the students I know who were on the stipend found good jobs through the connections they made at their unpaid positions--connections they would never have made if they were just employed by UVA as research assistants. This isn't just about gaming the rankings.


Ugh re-reading the ATL article sent chills up my spine made me physically ill. Do you remember if there was any rhyme or reason to the students who didn't get jobs? Or was it completely random?

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thesealocust » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:55 am

Agree with everything Cavalier said. It's a rankings arm's race for sure, but this move is generous and genuinely helpful for the graduates. It's hard to feel to skeezy about a program that (a) everyone is doing, (b) everyone knows about, and (c) is obviously a force of goodness and light in the lives of our graduates.

I worry about the overall market effect these programs will have, however. Between firm deferral programs (we'll pay you to do public interest!) and law school temporary programs (we'll pay you to do public interest!) what about the poor saps who actually (a) want to do public interest and (b) earn a living? It's hard to compete with people that will do the job for free...

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PatrickChewing15
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby PatrickChewing15 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:34 pm

Can anyone comment on when incoming 1L's typically start moving into their apartments? My lease starts in the middle of July. I've been thinking about when I actually want to move in. I'm excited to get there considering my lease here ends at the end of May and I'll be living on my parents couch in between. At the same time, I don't want to get to Charlottesville and be bored out of my mind for a month if people aren't around.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:37 pm

thesealocust wrote:Agree with everything Cavalier said. It's a rankings arm's race for sure, but this move is generous and genuinely helpful for the graduates. It's hard to feel to skeezy about a program that (a) everyone is doing, (b) everyone knows about, and (c) is obviously a force of goodness and light in the lives of our graduates.

I worry about the overall market effect these programs will have, however. Between firm deferral programs (we'll pay you to do public interest!) and law school temporary programs (we'll pay you to do public interest!) what about the poor saps who actually (a) want to do public interest and (b) earn a living? It's hard to compete with people that will do the job for free...



You and Cavalier are just the whiter version of me and Doritos. Disagreeing with nothing.

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dailygrind
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dailygrind » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:30 pm

chem wrote:
catholicgirl wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Curious what other people think about UVA hiring its own graduates temporarily to boost its ranking:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2549157393

I assume this figure (11%) refers to the students who receive $2500/month stipends from UVA in exchange for taking any unpaid legal position. I have nothing but praise for the program. Sure, UVA is motivated somewhat by the rankings, but UVA is also much more generous than it needs to be. Last spring they told every unemployed 3L they would pay for most of the costs of bar registration and a bar prep course--which doesn't do anything for the rankings--and $2500/month is a lot more money than hiring unemployed graduates to be research assistants for $10/hour for a maximum of 10 hours/week, for example. Plus the program seems to be helping the students: last August 100 students (27%) were receiving the stipend, so if only 11% are still receiving the stipend nine months after graduation, more than half must have found permanent jobs. Two of the students I know who were on the stipend found good jobs through the connections they made at their unpaid positions--connections they would never have made if they were just employed by UVA as research assistants. This isn't just about gaming the rankings.


Ugh re-reading the ATL article sent chills up my spine made me physically ill. Do you remember if there was any rhyme or reason to the students who didn't get jobs? Or was it completely random?


From what I can gather, the US law school class of 2012 walked into a collective buzz saw at OCI. Our year was supposedly better, and your year should be better still. I hope.

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catholicgirl
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby catholicgirl » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:58 pm

[/quote]
From what I can gather, the US law school class of 2012 walked into a collective buzz saw at OCI. Our year was supposedly better, and your year should be better still. I hope.[/quote]

Here's to hoping.

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jkpolk
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby jkpolk » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:09 pm

catholicgirl wrote:Here's to hoping.


If it doesn't work out there is always consulting o.O

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:03 pm

catholicgirl wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Curious what other people think about UVA hiring its own graduates temporarily to boost its ranking:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2549157393

I assume this figure (11%) refers to the students who receive $2500/month stipends from UVA in exchange for taking any unpaid legal position. I have nothing but praise for the program. Sure, UVA is motivated somewhat by the rankings, but UVA is also much more generous than it needs to be. Last spring they told every unemployed 3L they would pay for most of the costs of bar registration and a bar prep course--which doesn't do anything for the rankings--and $2500/month is a lot more money than hiring unemployed graduates to be research assistants for $10/hour for a maximum of 10 hours/week, for example. Plus the program seems to be helping the students: last August 100 students (27%) were receiving the stipend, so if only 11% are still receiving the stipend nine months after graduation, more than half must have found permanent jobs. Two of the students I know who were on the stipend found good jobs through the connections they made at their unpaid positions--connections they would never have made if they were just employed by UVA as research assistants. This isn't just about gaming the rankings.


Ugh re-reading the ATL article sent chills up my spine. Do you remember if there was any rhyme or reason to the students who didn't get jobs? Or was it completely random?


Elie just loves sticking it to UVA for some reason. The rhyme or reason as to why certain students in the class of 2011 didn't get jobs was, as President Obama would so eloquently put it: math. There weren't enough SA jobs to go around. So firms did what they always do: they choose the people they wanted based on factors that have been discussed ad nauseum on this site (grades, fit, pre-law work experience, etc.) and everyone else was left fighting for the same handful of PI/government internships and RA jobs.
Last edited by Julio_El_Chavo on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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catholicgirl
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby catholicgirl » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:09 pm

Yeah, ATL seems to really love to take on UVA. Because we know all the other schools in the T-14 are so perfect. :roll:

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RVP11
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby RVP11 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:16 am

dailygrind wrote:From what I can gather, the US law school class of 2012 walked into a collective buzz saw at OCI. Our year was supposedly better, and your year should be better still. I hope.


To those who remember class of 2011's OGI (in fall 2009), class of 2012 had a peachy time of it. The percentage of people getting SA jobs at high-paying firms went from ~45% to more like ~60%. Class of 2013 is probably 65% to 70%.

Still not back to the boom days of 80% or better. We'll probably never get there.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:47 am

RVP11 wrote:
dailygrind wrote:From what I can gather, the US law school class of 2012 walked into a collective buzz saw at OCI. Our year was supposedly better, and your year should be better still. I hope.


To those who remember class of 2011's OGI (in fall 2009), class of 2012 had a peachy time of it. The percentage of people getting SA jobs at high-paying firms went from ~45% to more like ~60%. Class of 2013 is probably 65% to 70%.

Still not back to the boom days of 80% or better. We'll probably never get there.



60-70% thru OGI or just got firm jobs regardless of method? I'm skeptical of both but moreso of the former. I could be wrong though.

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A Swift
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby A Swift » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:10 am

OK, once and for all. Do 2L grades matter?

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Cavalier
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Cavalier » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:52 am

A Swift wrote:OK, once and for all. Do 2L grades matter?

If you don't intend on clerking and plan to head straight to a firm, they don't matter much. No-offers for low grades don't occur. But keep in mind that there's still a lot of instability in the legal economy, and you might find yourself looking your new employment sooner than you think--for example, if your firm collapses like Dewey or Howrey. You shouldn't stress over grades but you shouldn't let them tank either if you can avoid it.

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Doritos
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Doritos » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:19 am

Cavalier wrote:
A Swift wrote:OK, once and for all. Do 2L grades matter?

If you don't intend on clerking and plan to head straight to a firm, they don't matter much. No-offers for low grades don't occur. But keep in mind that there's still a lot of instability in the legal economy, and you might find yourself looking your new employment sooner than you think--for example, if your firm collapses like Dewey or Howrey. You shouldn't stress over grades but you shouldn't let them tank either if you can avoid it.


What a terrible thing for me to read at this point. Just terrible.

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dailygrind
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby dailygrind » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:26 am

I wish to lobby for retroactive pass/fails. Michigan employs such a program and I don't want us to fall behind.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby desertlaw » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:20 am

Doritos wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
A Swift wrote:OK, once and for all. Do 2L grades matter?

If you don't intend on clerking and plan to head straight to a firm, they don't matter much. No-offers for low grades don't occur. But keep in mind that there's still a lot of instability in the legal economy, and you might find yourself looking your new employment sooner than you think--for example, if your firm collapses like Dewey or Howrey. You shouldn't stress over grades but you shouldn't let them tank either if you can avoid it.


What a terrible thing for me to read at this point. Just terrible.


Be Calm & Go Look At That Excel Sheet We Made.




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