UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Cavalier
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Cavalier » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:33 am

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Last edited by Cavalier on Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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citykitty
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby citykitty » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:46 am

I have kids, so I'm looking at the Copeley family apts. I really need a 3br, and I don't think I can afford off-campus prices.

albanach
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby albanach » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:41 pm

citykitty wrote:I have kids, so I'm looking at the Copeley family apts. I really need a 3br, and I don't think I can afford off-campus prices.


There are certainly advantages for a family - there are obviously lots of other families so your kids will have plenty of friends. Most folk living there are, I think, graduate students so they're familiar with what's going on.

The downside is space. Three bedrooms is one thing, 700 sq ft is another.

It's possible to find town homes in decent parts of Charlottesville for a little over $1,000/month offering twice the floorspace. Of course you then have a commute on top of the additional rent. If money is an issue, living on grounds will likely offer a decent saving. Trouble is, you may have to accept an offer without knowing whether you'll get in to family housing.

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:02 pm

citykitty wrote:I have kids, so I'm looking at the Copeley family apts. I really need a 3br, and I don't think I can afford off-campus prices.


The Copeley Hill family apartments are a little different than Copeley. It's a bit longer of a walk, but only about 5 minutes. I know people who live there. I think absolutely it's fine. It's close, very cheap -- the 985/month rent for a non-furnished 3 bedroom includes all utilities (gas, electric, water, basic cable) except for wireless internet, so you save a good bit of money there too. I don't think it will have a dishwasher, if that's an issue for you.

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esq
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby esq » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:47 am

citykitty wrote:I have kids, so I'm looking at the Copeley family apts. I really need a 3br, and I don't think I can afford off-campus prices.

With a 3 bedroom, you're looking at an all linoleum - which is actually easier with kids than carpet - space of just over 1000sqft. Many of the apartments are empty right now because of renovation, which is actually a good thing for you because they should be opening up right about the time you need one. With the renovations, you still feel like you are living in a spruced up 50s apartment, but it is much nicer than any of the pre-renovated apartments (basically you get new light fixtures, and a new kitchen). One thing that is both good and bad is that the apts are very community oriented, which means that if your blinds are left open in the living room when you roll out of bed and walk to the kitchen table for breakfast, you should be prepared for the event that there will be a group of children and parents playing inches from your sliding glass door.

The bad: the light fixture supplies the only plug in the bathroom, the only storage in the bathroom is the mirror cabinet, no dishwasher, there are 50 coats of paint on the walls and everything (everything) you can think of is waxed into the linoleum - then again there are all sorts of things painted into the walls too, so. . ., there is an old community heating system (only turns on at certain times, and I'm not sure if it works throughout the apt).

The good: 3bds are somewhat underground and the walls are, for the most part, filled with cinder block, which along with the free AC provides good temperature control. 3bds have direct access to a porch, a large grassy play area, and community playgrounds. The family environment is great if you have kids, and the association plans activities every month. There is a laundry room for each set of apartments, which is directly outside your door for 3bdrm. There is a large storage space inside the apt; the apt is close to the school and the shopping center; you have free cable (it includes channels like Nick, Disney, ESPNs, Hist, etc., so you get good programming for the fam), internet and utilities; you have one set monthly price that you can pay online with credit.

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sundance95
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby sundance95 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:15 pm

I'm considering taking Civil Liberties Survey with Laycock while taking Con Law at the same time. Huge mistake?

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:25 am

sundance95 wrote:I'm considering taking Civil Liberties Survey with Laycock while taking Con Law at the same time. Huge mistake?


Probably a mistake for taking a Laycock class your 1L. Have fun competing on a curve with 75% of law review.

Apple Tree
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Apple Tree » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:01 am

Is Fed Income Tax a good class to take if I liked the rule part of CivPro? Are there generally a lot of gunners in that class?

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:11 am

Apple Tree wrote:Is Fed Income Tax a good class to take if I liked the rule part of CivPro? Are there generally a lot of gunners in that class?


I think fed tax is a fine class to take 1L. I know a number of people who did. Evidence, Corporations, Acct/Corp finance, international law, and environmental law are other popular ones off the top of my head.

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plenipotentiary
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby plenipotentiary » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:53 am

sundance95 wrote:I'm considering taking Civil Liberties Survey with Laycock while taking Con Law at the same time. Huge mistake?


I wrote Laycock an email asking about that. He said he doesn't think it would be a problem; several 1Ls took the class last year and did fine.

sea15
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby sea15 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:48 am

So I was recently accepted to UVA with a significant scholarship, which makes it a very likely choice for me. After some research, I am left with two concerns.

1- I have a husband. There don't seem to be a lot of job options (except medical) around Charlottesville. Has anyone else had a spouse have trouble finding a substantive job?!

2- I do not party. Never have. How accurate is UVA's reputation as being a party school? Am I going to feel left out because that's just not my thing?

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sundance95
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby sundance95 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:46 pm

How about Collins? Another LR magnet?

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dailygrind
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby dailygrind » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:14 pm

plenipotentiary wrote:
sundance95 wrote:I'm considering taking Civil Liberties Survey with Laycock while taking Con Law at the same time. Huge mistake?


I wrote Laycock an email asking about that. He said he doesn't think it would be a problem; several 1Ls took the class last year and did fine.


There's doing fine, and there's excelling. My GPA from my 1L electives is much higher than my overall GPA. For the most part, 2Ls and 3Ls just don't work as hard as 1Ls do. I'd want to be in classes where I could be graded against less clerkship gunners.

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:18 pm

dailygrind wrote:
plenipotentiary wrote:
sundance95 wrote:I'm considering taking Civil Liberties Survey with Laycock while taking Con Law at the same time. Huge mistake?


I wrote Laycock an email asking about that. He said he doesn't think it would be a problem; several 1Ls took the class last year and did fine.


There's doing fine, and there's excelling. My GPA from my 1L electives is much higher than my overall GPA. For the most part, 2Ls and 3Ls just don't work as hard as 1Ls do. I'd want to be in classes where I could be graded against less clerkship gunners.


I had a really long post ranting that I deleted, but its point was exactly this. The downside from taking a LR class is moderate, but there's just no upside. You can take the class in your 2L or 3L. Nobody will care that you took Survey of Civil Liberties.

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:21 pm

sundance95 wrote:How about Collins? Another LR magnet?


Conflict of Laws moreso than Evidence. The latter is fine, I'd strongly recommend against the former, for your 1L year.

Apple Tree
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Apple Tree » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:23 pm

5ky wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
plenipotentiary wrote:
sundance95 wrote:I'm considering taking Civil Liberties Survey with Laycock while taking Con Law at the same time. Huge mistake?


I wrote Laycock an email asking about that. He said he doesn't think it would be a problem; several 1Ls took the class last year and did fine.


There's doing fine, and there's excelling. My GPA from my 1L electives is much higher than my overall GPA. For the most part, 2Ls and 3Ls just don't work as hard as 1Ls do. I'd want to be in classes where I could be graded against less clerkship gunners.


I had a really long post ranting that I deleted, but its point was exactly this. The downside from taking a LR class is moderate, but there's just no upside. You can take the class in your 2L or 3L. Nobody will care that you took Survey of Civil Liberties.


How do we know which classes are usually filled with LR people? Policy classes? Litigation-focused classes?

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:31 pm

Apple Tree wrote:
How do we know which classes are usually filled with LR people? Policy classes? Litigation-focused classes?


It's often based on class, but the professors play a really important role. Examples:

Anything taught by Laycock (survey not as much as Religious liberty, but still not great)
Anything taught by Nelson (often Legislation).
Probably anything taught by Dean Mahoney
Maybe Coughlin courses too? I'm not sure, someone else should chime in here who has had her.
Collins, but because Evidence is such a foundational course, everyone takes that, so it shouldn't be bad. Especially because Mitchell is teaching the other section, who is also stellar.

Admin with Duffy, not so much with Fischman I would guess.
Professional Responsibility with Cohen (not offered this spring)
Conflict of Laws with Collins.
Civil Rights Lit with Heytens maybe.
Fed Courts (with Nelson is probably like 50% law review at least, Woolhandler much less I would think, but still not something you want to take 1L)


There's others I'm sure, and some of the above probably aren't too bad. Realize that this is admittedly quite a few classes, and really popular ones at that. It largely tracks the super popular professors, so by the end of your time here you probably don't want to avoid them all completely. But I think it's a fair argument to wait until after your 1L year. It's just not worth it.

Apple Tree
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Apple Tree » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:45 pm

5ky wrote:
Apple Tree wrote:
How do we know which classes are usually filled with LR people? Policy classes? Litigation-focused classes?


It's often based on class, but the professors play a really important role. Examples:

Anything taught by Laycock (survey not as much as Religious liberty, but still not great)
Anything taught by Nelson (often Legislation).
Probably anything taught by Dean Mahoney
Maybe Coughlin courses too? I'm not sure, someone else should chime in here who has had her.
Collins, but because Evidence is such a foundational course, everyone takes that, so it shouldn't be bad. Especially because Mitchell is teaching the other section, who is also stellar.

Admin with Duffy, not so much with Fischman I would guess.
Professional Responsibility with Cohen (not offered this spring)
Conflict of Laws with Collins.
Civil Rights Lit with Heytens maybe.
Fed Courts (with Nelson is probably like 50% law review at least, Woolhandler much less I would think, but still not something you want to take 1L)


There's others I'm sure, and some of the above probably aren't too bad. Realize that this is admittedly quite a few classes, and really popular ones at that. It largely tracks the super popular professors, so by the end of your time here you probably don't want to avoid them all completely. But I think it's a fair argument to wait until after your 1L year. It's just not worth it.


Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the list!

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dailygrind
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby dailygrind » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:47 pm

Admin shouldn't be as rough in the spring because Magill is teaching it right now, and word is that she's siphoned off a goodly chunk of the LR folk.

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:56 pm

dailygrind wrote:Admin shouldn't be as rough in the spring because Magill is teaching it right now, and word is that she's siphoned off a goodly chunk of the LR folk.


Probably true, but you still want to be careful any time a class is taught by a professor who clerked at SCOTUS (as Duffy did). That's generally a pretty good barometer of classes that will attract LR types.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Gecko of Doom » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:56 pm

sea15 wrote:So I was recently accepted to UVA with a significant scholarship, which makes it a very likely choice for me. After some research, I am left with two concerns.

1- I have a husband. There don't seem to be a lot of job options (except medical) around Charlottesville. Has anyone else had a spouse have trouble finding a substantive job?!

This is a difficulty with living in Charlottesville. My wife only recently found a decent job. Spouses of other people in my section have had a hard time, too. I think there are one or two who still haven't found anything. It's doable, but it's probably something you should seriously consider before making your decision.

2- I do not party. Never have. How accurate is UVA's reputation as being a party school? Am I going to feel left out because that's just not my thing?

So far, it seem to me that the party school reputation is fairly well-deserved. However, I know a decent number of people who pretty much never go out, and they still fit in fine. I'd say you would be doing yourself a disservice if you never show up to social events, but you're not going to be some sort of pariah.

Gerry B
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Gerry B » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:48 am

5ky wrote:
Apple Tree wrote:
How do we know which classes are usually filled with LR people? Policy classes? Litigation-focused classes?


It's often based on class, but the professors play a really important role. Examples:

Anything taught by Laycock (survey not as much as Religious liberty, but still not great)
Anything taught by Nelson (often Legislation).
Probably anything taught by Dean Mahoney
Maybe Coughlin courses too? I'm not sure, someone else should chime in here who has had her.
Collins, but because Evidence is such a foundational course, everyone takes that, so it shouldn't be bad. Especially because Mitchell is teaching the other section, who is also stellar.

Admin with Duffy, not so much with Fischman I would guess.
Professional Responsibility with Cohen (not offered this spring)
Conflict of Laws with Collins.
Civil Rights Lit with Heytens maybe.
Fed Courts (with Nelson is probably like 50% law review at least, Woolhandler much less I would think, but still not something you want to take 1L)


There's others I'm sure, and some of the above probably aren't too bad. Realize that this is admittedly quite a few classes, and really popular ones at that. It largely tracks the super popular professors, so by the end of your time here you probably don't want to avoid them all completely. But I think it's a fair argument to wait until after your 1L year. It's just not worth it.


I think there will be more law review gunners in civil liberties than in the religious liberties class next semester. I think thats partly because of how early in the morning it is and partly because he is offering the civil liberties survey which covers more of the 1st amendment.

005618502
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 005618502 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:17 am

5ky wrote:
Apple Tree wrote:
How do we know which classes are usually filled with LR people? Policy classes? Litigation-focused classes?


It's often based on class, but the professors play a really important role. Examples:

Anything taught by Laycock (survey not as much as Religious liberty, but still not great)
Anything taught by Nelson (often Legislation).
Probably anything taught by Dean Mahoney
Maybe Coughlin courses too? I'm not sure, someone else should chime in here who has had her.
Collins, but because Evidence is such a foundational course, everyone takes that, so it shouldn't be bad. Especially because Mitchell is teaching the other section, who is also stellar.

Admin with Duffy, not so much with Fischman I would guess.
Professional Responsibility with Cohen (not offered this spring)
Conflict of Laws with Collins.
Civil Rights Lit with Heytens maybe.
Fed Courts (with Nelson is probably like 50% law review at least, Woolhandler much less I would think, but still not something you want to take 1L)


There's others I'm sure, and some of the above probably aren't too bad. Realize that this is admittedly quite a few classes, and really popular ones at that. It largely tracks the super popular professors, so by the end of your time here you probably don't want to avoid them all completely. But I think it's a fair argument to wait until after your 1L year. It's just not worth it.


Do you pick your classes your 1L year or are your classes and professors chosen for you?

005618502
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 005618502 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:18 pm

So here is a little different topic. I have seen people mention spouses not finding work etc. Well my Fiance will be working (intern) at Bergdorf in NYC next semester then likely working in NYC after. Do any of you have stories of long distance relationships from UVA to NYC. I feel it shouldnt be terrible as you can take a train to each other on the weekends. I am not from the east coast so I could be very wrong. Any insight onto this commute by train would help also. (Time, $$, etc.)

lawyerwannabe
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby lawyerwannabe » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:28 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:So here is a little different topic. I have seen people mention spouses not finding work etc. Well my Fiance will be working (intern) at Bergdorf in NYC next semester then likely working in NYC after. Do any of you have stories of long distance relationships from UVA to NYC. I feel it shouldnt be terrible as you can take a train to each other on the weekends. I am not from the east coast so I could be very wrong. Any insight onto this commute by train would help also. (Time, $$, etc.)


Just looked it up and this just does not seem like a good idea.

Unless I grossly overlooked something, a round-trip on AmTrack is ~$250-$300 and 6+ hours each way from Charlottesville to Penn Station in NYC. If you two see each other every weekend, that will be ~$15k in travel expenses. Maybe they have package deals?




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