UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
uvahooo
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby uvahooo » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:36 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:
socraticmethodman wrote:Current UVA students, did any of you do Law Preview during your OL summer? If so, what are your thoughts? I received the Clifford Chance Law Preview Scholarship today, and I'm debating if I should accept it. I've read negative and positive comments about Law Preview on TLS (a few people said Law Preview hurt them :? ), but I'd like to hear thoughts about it from current UVA students.

* I know this was briefly was discussed earlier, but I don't feel like searching for it lol.

Thanks in advance!


What exactly is the law preview scholarship?


I am not a URM but I know a few who did. People are split. Some say helpful some say not. I would do a search on TLS's fourms.

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Cavalier
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Cavalier » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:44 pm

socraticmethodman wrote:Current UVA students, did any of you do Law Preview during your OL summer? If so, what are your thoughts? I received the Clifford Chance Law Preview Scholarship today, and I'm debating if I should accept it. I've read negative and positive comments about Law Preview on TLS (a few people said Law Preview hurt them :? ), but I'd like to hear thoughts about it from current UVA students.

* I know this was briefly was discussed earlier, but I don't feel like searching for it lol.

Thanks in advance!

Seems like a waste of time. I wouldn't pay money for it--the guides posted here are more helpful.

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billyez
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby billyez » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:58 am

All this talk of "firms" and "money" is great and all. But for people like me who eschew such things, is there any solid advice about public service jobs here?

jawsthegreat wrote:What exactly is the law preview scholarship?


Scholarship given to incoming URM students. Pays for a law preview course - that's it.

Also, for people who like to resume pad, it's nice to put Clifford Chance Scholar on a resume. *cough*

socraticmethodman wrote:Current UVA students, did any of you do Law Preview during your OL summer? If so, what are your thoughts? I received the Clifford Chance Law Preview Scholarship today, and I'm debating if I should accept it. I've read negative and positive comments about Law Preview on TLS (a few people said Law Preview hurt them :? ), but I'd like to hear thoughts about it from current UVA students.

* I know this was briefly was discussed earlier, but I don't feel like searching for it lol.

Thanks in advance!


If you won it and decide to go, do two things; first, and most importantly, remember that these Professors are not the Professors that will be teaching you in law school. The Professors did a decent job of reminding us of this, I recall. The meat of the course is them teaching you substantive doctrine, which I think is meant to give you some insight into the subjects - but that's all it should be seen as and its value should be deemed limited (if you want to be cynical, which I'm not, you could also say it's just there to "pad" more days into the course so you pay more and feel like you're more prepared).

Second, don't take notes and if you do, limit it to one page. You're going to see people typing and getting all gung-ho about it. Don't. I was one of those people typing maddeningly for the first few days and it's just not worth it. You're not going to remember all of this and you're not going to sift through it once law school starts. These Professors are cramming a semester's worth of information into one session - information, mind you, that you're law school Professor may never cover - and besides, the goal should not be to retain all this information, it should be getting a feel for some of the subjects, in my opinion.

What's far more helpful is when they actually start going over how you should study and attack exams...but not only are the guides here less bloated, they seemed to cover the same basics. Start outlines early. Do more than just spot the issues. Do practice exams. We sort of know these things already. By far, the best is when you actually do an exam and get it covered in class by one of the Professors. It'll just be a standard issue-spotter, but this was gold. Make sure you do that assignment and pay attention when it's covered.

I also note that Law Preview is focused on selling a very structrured and specific type of program. It's true that this sytem has worked for people before. They'll likely have a LP intern who was in last year's class who used this system and will state that it was helpful (hint: Ask this person which parts of the system they actually used and which ones they scrapped on the day the headline speaker of the program isn't there - that's why he leaves on those days in the first place). What this does not mean is that this system will work for you. To their credit, they told us this and then went enthusiastically back to extolling how great this plan is. Do not be fooled. It's a very "bash the brain in and make a brief for every case" type of strategy. It is not one size fits all and it's not necessary.

Oh, one more thing. Please, please, don't be that guy who wants to get his last bit of pre-law gunning in before he starts law school. Ask a question, sure, but know that the opinion of the Professor speaking just doesn't matter come exam time. I feel a little bad saying that but...I think it's accurate.
Last edited by billyez on Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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billyez
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby billyez » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:18 am

bgdddymtty wrote:Did you hear the one about the Con Law professor who hadn't printed off his students' exams 23 days after the final? No? Don't worry; it wasn't that funny.


Oh, don't worry, there's one Professor in that same boat. The punchline is just as funny.

Morgan12Oak
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Morgan12Oak » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:03 am

Bold prediction: significant amount of grades out tomorrow.

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swinger
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby swinger » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:50 am

jawsthegreat wrote:Where are my grades?


I haz them. Will release around June 15th. Kthx.

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:36 am

Morgan12Oak wrote:Bold prediction: significant amount of grades out tomorrow.



Wednesdays and Fridays have, it seems, traditionally been grade-movement days.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:45 am

Anyone able to comment on how competitive it was to get Texas last OCI?

socraticmethodman
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby socraticmethodman » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:49 am

billyez wrote:All this talk of "firms" and "money" is great and all. But for people like me who eschew such things, is there any solid advice about public service jobs here?

jawsthegreat wrote:What exactly is the law preview scholarship?


Scholarship given to incoming URM students. Pays for a law preview course - that's it.

Also, for people who like to resume pad, it's nice to put Clifford Chance Scholar on a resume. *cough*

socraticmethodman wrote:Current UVA students, did any of you do Law Preview during your OL summer? If so, what are your thoughts? I received the Clifford Chance Law Preview Scholarship today, and I'm debating if I should accept it. I've read negative and positive comments about Law Preview on TLS (a few people said Law Preview hurt them :? ), but I'd like to hear thoughts about it from current UVA students.

* I know this was briefly was discussed earlier, but I don't feel like searching for it lol.

Thanks in advance!


If you won it and decide to go, do two things; first, and most importantly, remember that these Professors are not the Professors that will be teaching you in law school. The Professors did a decent job of reminding us of this, I recall. The meat of the course is them teaching you substantive doctrine, which I think is meant to give you some insight into the subjects - but that's all it should be seen as and its value should be deemed limited (if you want to be cynical, which I'm not, you could also say it's just there to "pad" more days into the course so you pay more and feel like you're more prepared).

Second, don't take notes and if you do, limit it to one page. You're going to see people typing and getting all gung-ho about it. Don't. I was one of those people typing maddeningly for the first few days and it's just not worth it. You're not going to remember all of this and you're not going to sift through it once law school starts. These Professors are cramming a semester's worth of information into one session - information, mind you, that you're law school Professor may never cover - and besides, the goal should not be to retain all this information, it should be getting a feel for some of the subjects, in my opinion.

What's far more helpful is when they actually start going over how you should study and attack exams...but not only are the guides here less bloated, they seemed to cover the same basics. Start outlines early. Do more than just spot the issues. Do practice exams. We sort of know these things already. By far, the best is when you actually do an exam and get it covered in class by one of the Professors. It'll just be a standard issue-spotter, but this was gold. Make sure you do that assignment and pay attention when it's covered.

I also note that Law Preview is focused on selling a very structrured and specific type of program. It's true that this sytem has worked for people before. They'll likely have a LP intern who was in last year's class who used this system and will state that it was helpful (hint: Ask this person which parts of the system they actually used and which ones they scrapped on the day the headline speaker of the program isn't there - that's why he leaves on those days in the first place). What this does not mean is that this system will work for you. To their credit, they told us this and then went enthusiastically back to extolling how great this plan is. Do not be fooled. It's a very "bash the brain in and make a brief for every case" type of strategy. It is not one size fits all and it's not necessary.

Oh, one more thing. Please, please, don't be that guy who wants to get his last bit of pre-law gunning in before he starts law school. Ask a question, sure, but know that the opinion of the Professor speaking just doesn't matter come exam time. I feel a little bad saying that but...I think it's accurate.


Thanks for all the information!

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:21 am

A handful of new evals just went up, but not much of note.

socraticmethodman
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby socraticmethodman » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:26 am

Stringer Bell wrote:Anyone able to comment on how competitive it was to get Texas last OCI?


I'd like to hear about this as well.

uvahooo
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby uvahooo » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:05 pm

socraticmethodman wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Anyone able to comment on how competitive it was to get Texas last OCI?


I'd like to hear about this as well.


you need ties from what i hear...

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:29 pm

I'm not trying to take a lot of traditional law school exam course for 2l and 3L. Accounting/Corporate Finance is graded "normally" right? None of that issue spotting subjective style grading right? You either get the right answer or the wrong one, or is it some sort of "apply accounting to fact/best "argument" stuff? And are there any graded assignments other than the final exam?

uvahooo
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby uvahooo » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:32 pm

BruceWayne wrote:I'm not trying to take a lot of traditional law school exam course for 2l and 3L. Accounting/Corporate Finance is graded "normally" right? None of that issue spotting subjective style grading right? You either get the right answer or the wrong one, or is it some sort of "apply accounting to fact/best "argument" stuff? And are there any graded assignments other than the final exam?


Take paper based classes?

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:35 pm

....
Last edited by BruceWayne on Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

uvahooo
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby uvahooo » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:38 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
uvahooo wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:I'm not trying to take a lot of traditional law school exam course for 2l and 3L. Accounting/Corporate Finance is graded "normally" right? None of that issue spotting subjective style grading right? You either get the right answer or the wrong one, or is it some sort of "apply accounting to fact/best "argument" stuff? And are there any graded assignments other than the final exam?


Take paper based classes?



Almost all of those are generally count for just 1 credit.


No. Not seminar classes. Those are paper based and three credits.

plum
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby plum » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:17 pm

Good news y'all sprigman just tweeted he's grading exams...

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5ky
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby 5ky » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:37 pm

plum wrote:Good news y'all sprigman just tweeted he's grading exams...


Wow, his twitter sure is, ah, something.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:39 pm

"The third-fastest growing career field is legal services, where law clerks saw a 24.77% jump in pay from 2009 to 2011. Average salaries have risen from $42,141 to $56,016 in that time as law firms, perhaps anticipating a better economy in coming months, have increased their staff in greater numbers and at greater pay."

--LinkRemoved--

Interesting

plum
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby plum » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:42 pm

5ky wrote:
plum wrote:Good news y'all sprigman just tweeted he's grading exams...


Wow, his twitter sure is, ah, something.

At least he's not posting weiner pics

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bgdddymtty
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby bgdddymtty » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:59 pm

plum wrote:
5ky wrote:
plum wrote:Good news y'all sprigman just tweeted he's grading exams...


Wow, his twitter sure is, ah, something.

At least he's not posting weiner pics

I'm surprised. Weiner posts his weiner; I'd expect Sprigman to post his sprig, man.

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esq
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby esq » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:04 pm

BruceWayne wrote:"The third-fastest growing career field is legal services, where law clerks saw a 24.77% jump in pay from 2009 to 2011. Average salaries have risen from $42,141 to $56,016 in that time as law firms, perhaps anticipating a better economy in coming months, have increased their staff in greater numbers and at greater pay."

--LinkRemoved--

Interesting

Hopefully this indicates a turnaround for the legal economy as a whole. I also wonder if this article makes a good case for loading up on tax law classed during law school? Sounds like that might be a really solid area to focus on.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:10 pm

esq wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:"The third-fastest growing career field is legal services, where law clerks saw a 24.77% jump in pay from 2009 to 2011. Average salaries have risen from $42,141 to $56,016 in that time as law firms, perhaps anticipating a better economy in coming months, have increased their staff in greater numbers and at greater pay."

--LinkRemoved--

Interesting

Hopefully this indicates a turnaround for the legal economy as a whole. I also wonder if this article makes a good case for loading up on tax law classed during law school? Sounds like that might be a really solid area to focus on.


I think that tax was always a good route. It's always in need and a lot of students avoid it.

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esq
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby esq » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:35 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
esq wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:"The third-fastest growing career field is legal services, where law clerks saw a 24.77% jump in pay from 2009 to 2011. Average salaries have risen from $42,141 to $56,016 in that time as law firms, perhaps anticipating a better economy in coming months, have increased their staff in greater numbers and at greater pay."

--LinkRemoved--

Interesting

Hopefully this indicates a turnaround for the legal economy as a whole. I also wonder if this article makes a good case for loading up on tax law classed during law school? Sounds like that might be a really solid area to focus on.


I think that tax was always a good route. It's always in need and a lot of students avoid it.

That's good to hear, you actually answered a question I've had.

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thesealocust
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:06 pm

There are actually a fair number of firms that focus on tax and employee benefits (which are creatures of the tax code) who come to OGI and have long standing relationships with UVA. It's a wide ranch of niche practices ranging from lobbying to controversy to benefit plan advising, but my guess is there isn't a lot of competition for those firms because they don't have flashy vault names for the most part.




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