UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Cavalier
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Cavalier » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:25 pm

pjo wrote:In regard to what Joeshmo said about classes- if classes aren't posted until Friday, would I have enough time to order my books from Amazon, receive them, and do any preliminary reading? Do most classes have reading assignments for the first day? My book budget is $750/semester (that includes casebooks and any supplements) so I'm definitely trying to buy my stuff used.

If you order them new and use a delivery option quicker than the standard 3-5 days, you can have them before classes begin. But keep in mind that the bookstore allows returns for at least a couple weeks into the semester if you make no markings in the book, so if you can commit to not highlighting and underlining at all in the beginning, you'll have plenty of time to wait for cheap books.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:26 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
This doesn't mean that the people who type the fastest get the best grades. But it certainly is easier for those people. And handwriting will almost assuredly be slower than even the slowest typists. You are at an enormous disadvantage if you go into a test intending to hand-write your answer.

don't LS's use a different keyboard style than the standard PC one?

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dailygrind
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby dailygrind » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:43 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
This doesn't mean that the people who type the fastest get the best grades. But it certainly is easier for those people. And handwriting will almost assuredly be slower than even the slowest typists. You are at an enormous disadvantage if you go into a test intending to hand-write your answer.

don't LS's use a different keyboard style than the standard PC one?


like dvorak rather than qwerty? i've never seen anyone do that. i'd be quite jealous if i did.

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RVP11
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby RVP11 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:47 pm

Typing speed is probably a big reason why TLSers and excessive gchatters do way better than what you'd expect.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:53 pm

dailygrind wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
This doesn't mean that the people who type the fastest get the best grades. But it certainly is easier for those people. And handwriting will almost assuredly be slower than even the slowest typists. You are at an enormous disadvantage if you go into a test intending to hand-write your answer.

don't LS's use a different keyboard style than the standard PC one?


like dvorak rather than qwerty? i've never seen anyone do that. i'd be quite jealous if i did.

yes that's what i meant. so it's qwerty ftw?

also, hai therrrrr DG

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:53 pm

RVP11 wrote:Typing speed is probably a big reason why TLSers and excessive gchatters do way better than what you'd expect.


thank god, i need all the help i can get

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:55 pm

This is probably going to be a dumb question, but do they have uniform pc's or laptops that everyone uses to take exams, or do you use your laptop?

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:59 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:This is probably going to be a dumb question, but do they have uniform pc's or laptops that everyone uses to take exams, or do you use your laptop?

They sell bundles that you can buy, and they'll include support and access to a loaner pool. If your bundle laptop dies on the morning of the exam, they'll have a loaner ready for you.

That said, exams at UVA are taken in Word and uploaded via website. Any laptop will do, and you can get an academic copy of Office for cheap from the campus computer store if you need one. Any functional laptop with Word, Mac or PC, will do.

(I hate you guys for this, btw. Exam4 FTL.)

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:01 pm

RVP11 wrote:Typing speed is probably a big reason why TLSers and excessive gchatters do way better than what you'd expect.

This.

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kelc213
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby kelc213 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:17 pm

joeshmo39 wrote:
During orientation your small section professor will stop in and say hi. They'll probably entertain some questions. The small section professor is the only one you will necessarily meet before the first day. On my first day of class the professor walked in, put her stuff, down, scanned the room, and then cold called someone. She ran the class like it was week 10. When it ended she said "welcome to law school" and walked out. It was pretty awesome. A lot of the professors compete with each other to teach 1Ls in the fall and I know at least one professor told me that his fall 1L class is his favorite one to teach. I know another professor who's still sore he didn't get to teach 1L contracts last semester. They really like to see us figure out what the hell is going on and start to "think like lawyers."


You say she immediately started running the class and cold-calling on people... but its likely that you won't even be able to get the book by the time the first class starts? What topic(s) was she cold calling on? Reading assignments that you were supposed to accomplish before Day 1?

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RVP11
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby RVP11 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:25 pm

kelc213 wrote:but its likely that you won't even be able to get the book by the time the first class starts? What topic(s) was she cold calling on? Reading assignments that you were supposed to accomplish before Day 1?


This is law school - the first day is more than just syllabus-pickup day. You buy your books several days before class starts and do the reading assignments.*

* = if you're a 1L

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WVUCelticFan
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby WVUCelticFan » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:46 pm

LLB2JD wrote:
WVUCelticFan wrote:
badwithpseudonyms wrote:
WVUCelticFan wrote:I know that softball is the gold standard at UVA, but are there ever any pick up games of soccer or (I know this one is a massive long shot) rugby around the law school?

Yes and yes. There are pickup games of soccer almost weekly when the weather is good, and there are indoor and outdoor teams that play the undergrads in the intramural league. Rugby consists of guys from both the law school and Darden. They scrimmage the undergrads and I believe they're going to a tournament soon.


Awesome, thanks.



Well, I guess you have at least someone to discuss EPL and SPL with. Go Gunners!!! :oops:




Finding people that follow soccer or rugby would be nice actually. None of my friends here really care, other than a few token Man U fans. I'm for Celtic (obviously) and Liverpool, although I'd watch rugby (Ireland and Ulster) over just about anything else no matter who is playing.




Related to the exam questions, so you have to use Word, ie Pages is not allowed?

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joeshmo39
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby joeshmo39 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:02 pm

Maybe I wasn't clear but professors will post and e-mail you the syllabus and reading assignments before the first day of class. On the first day of class you will discuss cases, you will look at the law, people will be called on. I was shaking my head in the negative on the first day of class and I got called on because it looked like I had a vague idea of what as happening.

As far as books the plan is as follows if you are a save-cash-on-books gunner:

1. I bought some books on TLS once I knew my section. Good price, no shipping, got the book in my hands ASAP. Someone posted on here and I PMed them.
2. I ordered books on amazon. If it's still available, get the amazon prime student account. It was free for one year but I don't know how long the deal goes on for.
3. Buy books on Amazon. Look for the "fulfillment by amazon" note on used books because they ship fast, arrive fast, and are free with Amazon Prime.
4. Buy book at the book store and DO NOT mark them. Read them then return them when your real books come in the mail.
5. Be aware the library reserve room has copies of every textbook and more supplements than you will be able to read. These can be great in a pinch like if you forget your book or don't want to carry a bunch of supplements to school.

P.S. I think in regards to test software at UVA, if you can save the final file in .docx then I don't see anyone caring what program you wrote it in. I'm thinking Open Office is fine for example.

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kelc213
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby kelc213 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:11 pm

RVP11 wrote:
kelc213 wrote:but its likely that you won't even be able to get the book by the time the first class starts? What topic(s) was she cold calling on? Reading assignments that you were supposed to accomplish before Day 1?


This is law school - the first day is more than just syllabus-pickup day. You buy your books several days before class starts and do the reading assignments.*

* = if you're a 1L


That's what I figured I was just confused by someone's comment about how quickly you can manager to get books

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sanetruth
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby sanetruth » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:50 pm

i'm sure this has been discussed here, but this thread is too massive to go through and the search wasn't coming up with what i'm looking for.

so, can anyone explain exactly what 'preselect' at OCI means and why everyone agrees that this is one of UVA's downfalls? What are the problems with preselect and if it is so bad why does UVA do it? Someone mentioned that no other T14 does this is this still the case? Am I out of date?

Again, if this has been discussed at length maybe someone can just point me there. But the only relevant thread I found was from 2009 and it was really out of date (already!).

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vamedic03
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vamedic03 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:16 pm

sanetruth wrote:i'm sure this has been discussed here, but this thread is too massive to go through and the search wasn't coming up with what i'm looking for.

so, can anyone explain exactly what 'preselect' at OCI means and why everyone agrees that this is one of UVA's downfalls? What are the problems with preselect and if it is so bad why does UVA do it? Someone mentioned that no other T14 does this is this still the case? Am I out of date?

Again, if this has been discussed at length maybe someone can just point me there. But the only relevant thread I found was from 2009 and it was really out of date (already!).


(1) I don't think there is any consensus about preselects being bad. There are a number of people on here who will argue that preselects are good - it matches candidates with firms that are interested in them. And, it helps increase the number of firms willing to come to OGI.

(2) The general OGI system is as follows (it varies every year):
Each student gets 50 bids.
Each firms gets to fill 60% of their interview slots with preselects. This means that the firm gets to see the resume and transcript (plus cover letter if they requested it) of everyone who bid on them. They can then fill 60% of their slots with the people they are most interested in.
Each firm then gets to fill 20% of their interview slots with preselects selected only from those who bid that firm within their top 5 bids.
Finally the remaining 20% of slots are filled through a lottery system.

I think everyone typically got 9 or so interviews with the top of the class getting ~30 (maximum allowed interviews).

Note - all of this can change on a year to year basis.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:23 pm

as opposed to people being able to just get interviews with whomever they want to bid on?

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Kohinoor
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:27 pm

sanetruth wrote:i'm sure this has been discussed here, but this thread is too massive to go through and the search wasn't coming up with what i'm looking for.

so, can anyone explain exactly what 'preselect' at OCI means and why everyone agrees that this is one of UVA's downfalls? What are the problems with preselect and if it is so bad why does UVA do it? Someone mentioned that no other T14 does this is this still the case? Am I out of date?

Again, if this has been discussed at length maybe someone can just point me there. But the only relevant thread I found was from 2009 and it was really out of date (already!).

The problem with preselect is that people with low grades could have few or no interviews. UVA supplements this with a lottery which runs into the lottery problem of giving you interviews with utterly disinterested employers. So, both methods have huge flaws. In the end, if you can get the same number of employers to the school either way, lottery is probably more student friendly overall since the kids with top credentials would be fine under either system and lottery at least gets kids in front of employers who otherwise would have been dismissed without an interview. UVa claims that its system actually attracts more employers than a lottery system would which adds an additional wrinkle.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:37 pm

so ~9 interviews at UVa versus how many at the average t14 with a lottery system? comparable or less?

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pjo
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby pjo » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:42 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
sanetruth wrote:i'm sure this has been discussed here, but this thread is too massive to go through and the search wasn't coming up with what i'm looking for.

so, can anyone explain exactly what 'preselect' at OCI means and why everyone agrees that this is one of UVA's downfalls? What are the problems with preselect and if it is so bad why does UVA do it? Someone mentioned that no other T14 does this is this still the case? Am I out of date?

Again, if this has been discussed at length maybe someone can just point me there. But the only relevant thread I found was from 2009 and it was really out of date (already!).


(1) I don't think there is any consensus about preselects being bad. There are a number of people on here who will argue that preselects are good - it matches candidates with firms that are interested in them. And, it helps increase the number of firms willing to come to OGI.

(2) The general OGI system is as follows (it varies every year):
Each student gets 50 bids.
Each firms gets to fill 60% of their interview slots with preselects. This means that the firm gets to see the resume and transcript (plus cover letter if they requested it) of everyone who bid on them. They can then fill 60% of their slots with the people they are most interested in.
Each firm then gets to fill 20% of their interview slots with preselects selected only from those who bid that firm within their top 5 bids.
Finally the remaining 20% of slots are filled through a lottery system.

I think everyone typically got 9 or so interviews with the top of the class getting ~30 (maximum allowed interviews).

Note - all of this can change on a year to year basis.


How does it work if a single firm has multiple offices interviewing? Can you bid on the same firm but two different offices or is that looked down upon?

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RVP11
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby RVP11 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:17 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:so ~9 interviews at UVa versus how many at the average t14 with a lottery system? comparable or less?


I'm fairly sure 9 was the average number of PRESELECT interviews received. Consider that only 60% of interviews were preselect, and it's fair to guess that ~15 was the average number of OGI interviews.

Everyone I know in the middle of the class who bid intelligently had over 15 interviews. Most people in the top third had 20+, and it seemed like most LR grade-on people hit the max of 30.

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RVP11
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby RVP11 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:22 pm

pjo wrote:How does it work if a single firm has multiple offices interviewing? Can you bid on the same firm but two different offices or is that looked down upon?


For most firms (almost everyone except Skadden) you interview once for the entire firm. You tell them which offices you'd like to be considered for.

Bidding on multiple offices is not a bad thing if you have a very good reason or if the offices are similar. For example, bidding both Latham OC and Latham SD is probably not going to raise eyebrows, but bidding both Gibson Dunn NY and Gibson Dunn Denver is going to look funny.
Last edited by RVP11 on Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:26 pm

RVP11 wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:so ~9 interviews at UVa versus how many at the average t14 with a lottery system? comparable or less?


I'm fairly sure 9 was the average number of PRESELECT interviews received. Consider that only 60% of interviews were preselect, and it's fair to guess that ~15 was the average number of OGI interviews.

Everyone I know in the middle of the class who bid intelligently had over 15 interviews. Most people in the top third had 20+, and it seemed like most LR grade-on people hit the max of 30.

thanks for the info RVP

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:27 pm

I can see both sides. Obviously the more firms on campus the better. It's also good to match people up with firms that they realistically have a shot at. When I went through OCI's at my UG back in the day, my GPA/Resume was just good enough to get me in almost any interview, but probably one of the worst amongst the people that did get selected for slots. Considering there were usually 20-30 interview slots for maybe one position, I was pretty much a dead man walking going into any interview. With one employeer I knocked an interview out of the park and the girl who interviewed me all but assured me I was going to make it to another round. She called a couple of days later and said they just couldn't get past my GPA. This got pretty frustrating.

The one thing I will say though is that all those interviews really helped me learn to interview better. I beat out several more qualified people for the job I ended up with. So it's a catch-22 that the lower ranked students are going to need to perform as well in interviews as possible, but they are going to have less of an opportunity to hone their skills.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:33 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
sanetruth wrote:i'm sure this has been discussed here, but this thread is too massive to go through and the search wasn't coming up with what i'm looking for.

so, can anyone explain exactly what 'preselect' at OCI means and why everyone agrees that this is one of UVA's downfalls? What are the problems with preselect and if it is so bad why does UVA do it? Someone mentioned that no other T14 does this is this still the case? Am I out of date?

Again, if this has been discussed at length maybe someone can just point me there. But the only relevant thread I found was from 2009 and it was really out of date (already!).

The problem with preselect is that people with low grades could have few or no interviews. UVA supplements this with a lottery which runs into the lottery problem of giving you interviews with utterly disinterested employers. So, both methods have huge flaws. In the end, if you can get the same number of employers to the school either way, lottery is probably more student friendly overall since the kids with top credentials would be fine under either system and lottery at least gets kids in front of employers who otherwise would have been dismissed without an interview. UVa claims that its system actually attracts more employers than a lottery system would which adds an additional wrinkle.



And what this tells you is that preselect is basically bad for those with poor GPAs. The reason preselect attracts more employers is because it allows them to choose to avoid interviewing those who are under a certain GPA. The reality is that the UVA system subsidizes those with poor grades to give those with good grades even more assistance in getting a job. Basically it's the school's subtle admission that OGI is really more or less for those who have high GPAs, and that those who don't just need to accept that they aren't going to find a job out of OGI. The school uses OGI to maximize the chances of the high performers getting the big time jobs that they can advertise in viewbooks etc. I think that those with poor grades should take this as a hint that you need to start looking for a job on your own long before OGI, and that you should view it as more or less as a career fair rather than a likely way of landing a job.




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