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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:45 pm
by BruceWayne
pjo wrote:Not trying to out anyone or anything but at the student info session during ASD one of the students mentioned about their significant other who is a 3L on law review. They mentioned how their SO is currently without a job because the firm they were planning on heading to was recently dissovled (Howrey). This really caught me by surprise and I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything but I was under the impression that those on LR at UVA bascially had their pick of firms, which leads me to wonder, why would someone with their pick of firms choose Howrey; considering they were clearly having a lot of trouble even as things began to improve at other firms. Or is my impression of career prospects for those on LR too generous?

Also, maybe someone could attest to the truth in this statement made by Jon Cannon during the Environmental Law session: (almost verbatim) "if you come here and commit to the environmental program (i.e. clinic, classes, etc.) I guarantee I'll find you a job as an environmental lawyer either in private practice, PI or government". --He seemed like a really cool guy and I think I meshed the best with his personality but that seemed like a pretty strong, and somewhat unrealistic guarantee. Was he being serious? FWIW, he does seem like he has awesome connections.


A lot of people in law school are not as plugged into things like Above the Law and TLS as you might think. If you think about it if you don't check that kind of stuff there's a good chance you wouldn't know that kind of thing.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:58 pm
by vamedic03
pjo wrote:Not trying to out anyone or anything but at the student info session during ASD one of the students mentioned about their significant other who is a 3L on law review. They mentioned how their SO is currently without a job because the firm they were planning on heading to was recently dissovled (Howrey). This really caught me by surprise and I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything but I was under the impression that those on LR at UVA bascially had their pick of firms, which leads me to wonder, why would someone with their pick of firms choose Howrey; considering they were clearly having a lot of trouble even as things began to improve at other firms. Or is my impression of career prospects for those on LR too generous?


Three thoughts:

(1) The utility of Law Review is dependent on grades. Top of the class (i.e., grade-on) + LR have a much better success than just LR. There are many other factors out there, but LR membership alone doesn't overcome grades. [this is a general statement, not a statement about the referenced individual]

(2) Recall that c/o 2011 did their OGI in Fall 2009. Fall 2009 was one of the worst periods for law firm recruiting in history. Firms across the board were slashing their summer classes and no-offered their SA's (c/o 2010).

(3) Back in Fall of 2009, Howery was a good firm - well established antitrust group, IP lit, etc. Plenty of people would have been very happy to have a Howery offer back in 2009. Howery was certainly a younger firm back then and, in retrospect, made many rapid expansion mistakes, but was certainly doing well for itself.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:11 pm
by Cavalier
pjo wrote:Not trying to out anyone or anything but at the student info session during ASD one of the students mentioned about their significant other who is a 3L on law review. They mentioned how their SO is currently without a job because the firm they were planning on heading to was recently dissovled (Howrey). This really caught me by surprise and I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything but I was under the impression that those on LR at UVA bascially had their pick of firms, which leads me to wonder, why would someone with their pick of firms choose Howrey; considering they were clearly having a lot of trouble even as things began to improve at other firms. Or is my impression of career prospects for those on LR too generous?

I think it's largely a myth that people on Law Review (even including only grade-ons) "have their pick of firms." Most of them will be able to land at a V10 firm in New York, but DC can be a disaster for just about anyone. I know of three people north of a 3.8 who struck out entirely in DC. That's why I advise everyone to use a lot of bids on NY.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:16 pm
by WVUCelticFan
badwithpseudonyms wrote:
WVUCelticFan wrote:I know that softball is the gold standard at UVA, but are there ever any pick up games of soccer or (I know this one is a massive long shot) rugby around the law school?

Yes and yes. There are pickup games of soccer almost weekly when the weather is good, and there are indoor and outdoor teams that play the undergrads in the intramural league. Rugby consists of guys from both the law school and Darden. They scrimmage the undergrads and I believe they're going to a tournament soon.


Awesome, thanks.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:39 pm
by dailygrind
BruceWayne wrote:
R.R. Raskolnikov wrote:Put this in the UVA 2014 thread but meant to post it here:

If any current 2Ls or 3Ls could provide some insight on this it would be extremely helpful...

I was at ASW over the weekend and was very impressed with the presentations by the public sector and clerkships advisors. I want to practice in DC and I have a strong interest in clerking and pursuing federal government work. Are the experiences and connections that UVA boasts in the DC area that tangible that it provides a significant leg up on peer school competitors?

I know DC biglaw is extremely competitive regardless of where you go to school, but I'm wondering if UVA has unique advantages for clerking and the federal gov't (the public sector advisor literally said "UVA owns DOJ"). I just want to know if that is all talk or if it is born out in what people experience when they go through the hiring process.

Many thanks.


If by "own" you mean those north of a 3.3 own DOJ then I'm sure that that's probably true.


really? i hadn't bothered with much research yet because i figured my time was better spent studying (and moderating internet message boards), but i'd always assumed that DOJ was extremely difficult to crack, even at UVA.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:44 pm
by BruceWayne
dailygrind wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
R.R. Raskolnikov wrote:Put this in the UVA 2014 thread but meant to post it here:

If any current 2Ls or 3Ls could provide some insight on this it would be extremely helpful...

I was at ASW over the weekend and was very impressed with the presentations by the public sector and clerkships advisors. I want to practice in DC and I have a strong interest in clerking and pursuing federal government work. Are the experiences and connections that UVA boasts in the DC area that tangible that it provides a significant leg up on peer school competitors?

I know DC biglaw is extremely competitive regardless of where you go to school, but I'm wondering if UVA has unique advantages for clerking and the federal gov't (the public sector advisor literally said "UVA owns DOJ"). I just want to know if that is all talk or if it is born out in what people experience when they go through the hiring process.

Many thanks.


If by "own" you mean those north of a 3.3 own DOJ then I'm sure that that's probably true.


really? i hadn't bothered with much research yet because i figured my time was better spent studying (and moderating internet message boards), but i'd always assumed that DOJ was extremely difficult to crack, even at UVA.


That's basically what I was saying but more bluntly. 70 percent of the class has under a 3.4

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:26 pm
by plum
BruceWayne wrote:70 percent of the class has under a 3.4

top third sounds even more formidable this way.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:29 pm
by Kohinoor
plum wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:70 percent of the class has under a 3.4

top third sounds even more formidable this way.

If you're a 0L, don't worry about it. The curve won't apply to you.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:57 pm
by badwithpseudonyms
Kohinoor wrote:
plum wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:70 percent of the class has under a 3.4

top third sounds even more formidable this way.

If you're a 0L, don't worry about it. The curve won't apply to you.

Image

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:22 am
by albanach
Thanks to all the current students for answering so many questions in this thread.

I've been thinking about August. What can you tell us about the first week at the school. I see we have two days scheduled for orientation - what can we expect from that? When are things like parking an lockers usually sorted out?

When do we learn what section we will be in, who will be teaching us and what books we need to buy? I presume we're straight into full-on teaching the first day after orientation. Do we have a scheduled opportunity to meet our professors before then?

Is there anything else you wish you'd known during those first couple of days?

Thanks again!

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:26 am
by icouldbuyu
albanach wrote:Thanks to all the current students for answering so many questions in this thread.

I've been thinking about August. What can you tell us about the first week at the school. I see we have two days scheduled for orientation - what can we expect from that? When are things like parking an lockers usually sorted out?

When do we learn what section we will be in, who will be teaching us and what books we need to buy? I presume we're straight into full-on teaching the first day after orientation. Do we have a scheduled opportunity to meet our professors before then?

Is there anything else you wish you'd known during those first couple of days?

Thanks again!


Also, do professors assign anyassignments for the first day of class? If so are they posted anywhere or just emailed? I want to avoid a Paper Chase-like first class.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:26 am
by WVUCelticFan
albanach wrote:Thanks to all the current students for answering so many questions in this thread.

I've been thinking about August. What can you tell us about the first week at the school. I see we have two days scheduled for orientation - what can we expect from that? When are things like parking an lockers usually sorted out?

When do we learn what section we will be in, who will be teaching us and what books we need to buy? I presume we're straight into full-on teaching the first day after orientation. Do we have a scheduled opportunity to meet our professors before then?

Is there anything else you wish you'd known during those first couple of days?

Thanks again!


To add on to this, is there any good reason to come to Cville more than a week early? My lease starts the 3rd so I need to figure out whether to move the weekend right after that (two weeks before orientation) or the next (one week early). Thanks.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:26 am
by LLB2JD
WVUCelticFan wrote:
badwithpseudonyms wrote:
WVUCelticFan wrote:I know that softball is the gold standard at UVA, but are there ever any pick up games of soccer or (I know this one is a massive long shot) rugby around the law school?

Yes and yes. There are pickup games of soccer almost weekly when the weather is good, and there are indoor and outdoor teams that play the undergrads in the intramural league. Rugby consists of guys from both the law school and Darden. They scrimmage the undergrads and I believe they're going to a tournament soon.


Awesome, thanks.



Well, I guess you have at least someone to discuss EPL and SPL with. Go Gunners!!! :oops:

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:42 am
by joeshmo39
icouldbuyu wrote:
albanach wrote:Thanks to all the current students for answering so many questions in this thread.

I've been thinking about August. What can you tell us about the first week at the school. I see we have two days scheduled for orientation - what can we expect from that? When are things like parking an lockers usually sorted out?

When do we learn what section we will be in, who will be teaching us and what books we need to buy? I presume we're straight into full-on teaching the first day after orientation. Do we have a scheduled opportunity to meet our professors before then?

Is there anything else you wish you'd known during those first couple of days?

Thanks again!


Also, do professors assign anyassignments for the first day of class? If so are they posted anywhere or just emailed? I want to avoid a Paper Chase-like first class.


The two days of orientation are led by the peer advisers and are pretty low key. You'll play some getting to know you games, you'll talk about cold calls, studying, and take a little tour of the school. Every section has a party between nights 1 and 2 of orientation where someone hosts a pre-game then everyone goes to the corner. They'll talk about lockers and parking but I remember being left to our own devices on that.

During orientation your small section professor will stop in and say hi. They'll probably entertain some questions. The small section professor is the only one you will necessarily meet before the first day. On my first day of class the professor walked in, put her stuff, down, scanned the room, and then cold called someone. She ran the class like it was week 10. When it ended she said "welcome to law school" and walked out. It was pretty awesome. A lot of the professors compete with each other to teach 1Ls in the fall and I know at least one professor told me that his fall 1L class is his favorite one to teach. I know another professor who's still sore he didn't get to teach 1L contracts last semester. They really like to see us figure out what the hell is going on and start to "think like lawyers."

If I remember correctly, class schedules are released ahead of time insofar as everyone knows which professors teach which sections. However, You don't get your section assignments until Friday before classes start ie. 3 days before orientation. Your section assignment will give you an idea of what books you need and most professors post their syllabus before class so you know the assignments. There is also a bulletin board where some professors post reading for the first day. The first week is very busy and there are a lot of social activities. I know a few people in my section passed on some of the parties and activities (there is a tubing trip on the river) to study and sit around. I did.

Anyway Friday is the section posting, weekend, monday and tuesday orientation, wednesday to friday are the first week of class. There is also a small reading period at the end of the semester that evens that first week up.

I cam down to Charlottesville a week early and it didn't change my life. People go out pretty much every night, usually down to the corner (Biltmore). It's fun to meet people and look around the town. but you'll spend so much time with people in your section it feels hard to keep hanging out with people that you meet at the beginning of school.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:14 am
by coldshoulder
LLB2JD wrote:
WVUCelticFan wrote:
badwithpseudonyms wrote:
WVUCelticFan wrote:I know that softball is the gold standard at UVA, but are there ever any pick up games of soccer or (I know this one is a massive long shot) rugby around the law school?

Yes and yes. There are pickup games of soccer almost weekly when the weather is good, and there are indoor and outdoor teams that play the undergrads in the intramural league. Rugby consists of guys from both the law school and Darden. They scrimmage the undergrads and I believe they're going to a tournament soon.


Awesome, thanks.



Well, I guess you have at least someone to discuss EPL and SPL with. Go Gunners!!! :oops:


I guess at law school I should start following Arsenal, considering their nickname.
:D

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:20 am
by LLB2JD
coldshoulder wrote:
I guess at law school I should start following Arsenal, considering their nickname.
:D



Yep, you should :lol:

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:20 am
by vanwinkle
coldshoulder wrote:I guess at law school I should start following Arsenal, considering their nickname.
:D

I know it's getting a little off-topic, but if you're looking for a winning team to follow...

--ImageRemoved--

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:22 am
by LLB2JD
So I am one of those folks who are notoriously slow when it comes to typing. Are students still generally allowed to hand-write exams? Or do I have my work cut out for me over the summer?

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:22 am
by vanwinkle
LLB2JD wrote:So I am one of those folks who are notoriously slow when it comes to typing. Are students still generally allowed to hand-write exams? Or do I have my work cut out for me over the summer?

Download a typing speed program, start using it now. This is your new hobby for the next 5 months. Congratulations.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:25 am
by socraticmethodman
joeshmo39 wrote:
icouldbuyu wrote:
albanach wrote:Thanks to all the current students for answering so many questions in this thread.

I've been thinking about August. What can you tell us about the first week at the school. I see we have two days scheduled for orientation - what can we expect from that? When are things like parking an lockers usually sorted out?

When do we learn what section we will be in, who will be teaching us and what books we need to buy? I presume we're straight into full-on teaching the first day after orientation. Do we have a scheduled opportunity to meet our professors before then?

Is there anything else you wish you'd known during those first couple of days?

Thanks again!


Also, do professors assign anyassignments for the first day of class? If so are they posted anywhere or just emailed? I want to avoid a Paper Chase-like first class.


The two days of orientation are led by the peer advisers and are pretty low key. You'll play some getting to know you games, you'll talk about cold calls, studying, and take a little tour of the school. Every section has a party between nights 1 and 2 of orientation where someone hosts a pre-game then everyone goes to the corner. They'll talk about lockers and parking but I remember being left to our own devices on that.

During orientation your small section professor will stop in and say hi. They'll probably entertain some questions. The small section professor is the only one you will necessarily meet before the first day. On my first day of class the professor walked in, put her stuff, down, scanned the room, and then cold called someone. She ran the class like it was week 10. When it ended she said "welcome to law school" and walked out. It was pretty awesome. A lot of the professors compete with each other to teach 1Ls in the fall and I know at least one professor told me that his fall 1L class is his favorite one to teach. I know another professor who's still sore he didn't get to teach 1L contracts last semester. They really like to see us figure out what the hell is going on and start to "think like lawyers."

If I remember correctly, class schedules are released ahead of time insofar as everyone knows which professors teach which sections. However, You don't get your section assignments until Friday before classes start ie. 3 days before orientation. Your section assignment will give you an idea of what books you need and most professors post their syllabus before class so you know the assignments. There is also a bulletin board where some professors post reading for the first day. The first week is very busy and there are a lot of social activities. I know a few people in my section passed on some of the parties and activities (there is a tubing trip on the river) to study and sit around. I did.

Anyway Friday is the section posting, weekend, monday and tuesday orientation, wednesday to friday are the first week of class. There is also a small reading period at the end of the semester that evens that first week up.

I cam down to Charlottesville a week early and it didn't change my life. People go out pretty much every night, usually down to the corner (Biltmore). It's fun to meet people and look around the town. but you'll spend so much time with people in your section it feels hard to keep hanging out with people that you meet at the beginning of school.


Thanks for the information!

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:27 am
by LLB2JD
vanwinkle wrote:
LLB2JD wrote:So I am one of those folks who are notoriously slow when it comes to typing. Are students still generally allowed to hand-write exams? Or do I have my work cut out for me over the summer?

Download a typing speed program, start using it now. This is your new hobby for the next 5 months. Congratulations.


So I'm guessing the answer to the question is No...Ugh. I already started playing typing games though, so I am sort of optimistic I can get some progress made by the time fall rolls around.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:31 am
by Stringer Bell
vanwinkle wrote:
LLB2JD wrote:So I am one of those folks who are notoriously slow when it comes to typing. Are students still generally allowed to hand-write exams? Or do I have my work cut out for me over the summer?

Download a typing speed program, start using it now. This is your new hobby for the next 5 months. Congratulations.


What do you think is an acceptable typing speed for prospective gunners?

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:52 am
by Cavalier
LLB2JD wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
LLB2JD wrote:So I am one of those folks who are notoriously slow when it comes to typing. Are students still generally allowed to hand-write exams? Or do I have my work cut out for me over the summer?

Download a typing speed program, start using it now. This is your new hobby for the next 5 months. Congratulations.

So I'm guessing the answer to the question is No...Ugh. I already started playing typing games though, so I am sort of optimistic I can get some progress made by the time fall rolls around.

I think handwriting is technically permitted, but I've never seen anyone do it. And you'd be crazy to do it -- the more words you can produce on an exam, the better. You have enough time to learn how to type; learning to do so will be the most valuable use of your time.

Stringer Bell wrote:What do you think is an acceptable typing speed for prospective gunners?

Speed isn't really the key; the key is being able to type constantly throughout the exam (i.e. not spending time reading through your outlines and thinking about your answer). The highest WPM I've averaged on an exam is 40, which I imagine is attainable by nearly everyone.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:00 pm
by vanwinkle
LLB2JD wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
LLB2JD wrote:So I am one of those folks who are notoriously slow when it comes to typing. Are students still generally allowed to hand-write exams? Or do I have my work cut out for me over the summer?

Download a typing speed program, start using it now. This is your new hobby for the next 5 months. Congratulations.

So I'm guessing the answer to the question is No...Ugh.

As Cavalier mentioned, I think it's allowed, but you don't want to do it. Ability to produce a higher word count can directly impact your grades, and honestly, is probably the one thing you can improve as a 0L that most affects your ability to do well. More than GTM or reading E&Es or anything like that, increasing your output speed is the single best way to increase your odds of doing well.

This doesn't mean that the people who type the fastest get the best grades. But it certainly is easier for those people. And handwriting will almost assuredly be slower than even the slowest typists. You are at an enormous disadvantage if you go into a test intending to hand-write your answer.

Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:22 pm
by pjo
In regard to what Joeshmo said about classes- if classes aren't posted until Friday, would I have enough time to order my books from Amazon, receive them, and do any preliminary reading? Do most classes have reading assignments for the first day? My book budget is $750/semester (that includes casebooks and any supplements) so I'm definitely trying to buy my stuff used.