UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:37 am

predent/prelaw wrote:cock bags

--ImageRemoved--

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Cavalier
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Cavalier » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:39 am

r6_philly wrote:Why wouldn't current students act this way in person? Apparently this is a TLS problem.

TLS is not at all representative of UVA. At least half the TLSers I met in my class made law review, and many that didn't still did very well (see, e.g., vanwinkle).

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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:41 am

You are absolutely right, that determination and drive does not dictate law school success, but why tell people not to have determination and drive, especially that's how one works?

I will clarify, I don't have an expectation, it's simply an attitude. I think that people are not understanding that. I didn't try to tell anyone else how they should approach law school, and I fail to understand why people get up in arms about how I would. Disagree, sure! Try to convince me that I am wrong, unnecessary.

And think this is all due to the fact that I repeated what I was told at the Open House. If I stuck to knowing what I know, I wouldn't have cared what the school said :wink:

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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:44 am

Cavalier wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Why wouldn't current students act this way in person? Apparently this is a TLS problem.

TLS is not at all representative of UVA. At least half the TLSers I met in my class made law review, and many that didn't still did very well (see, e.g., vanwinkle).


I meant, not one person I talked to wanted to say anything negative about my overwhelming persona, in person. I can tell some don't like it, but they just shy away. This sounds like cyber-bullying :lol:

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:46 am

r6_philly wrote:You are absolutely right, that determination and drive does not dictate law school success, but why tell people not to have determination and drive, especially that's how one works?

Nobody's saying that either. Drive and determination are certainly assets. But 1) there are those rare folks who succeed without it and 2) it's not sufficient for law school success. It's drive and determination plus other variables you can't predict as a 0L that makes the difference for most people.

If you really are just describing an attitude, then you should describe it that way. "I'm planning ahead for all outcomes, including success" sounds a lot less wrong than "I will succeed because I have the drive and determination to do so".

Also, some of the people giving you advice/criticizing your attitude were the most successful students at UVA last year. They're the ones who did succeed. Disagreeing with them means disagreeing with the very people who just did what you're "planning" to do.

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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:55 am

vanwinkle wrote:
r6_philly wrote:You are absolutely right, that determination and drive does not dictate law school success, but why tell people not to have determination and drive, especially that's how one works?

Nobody's saying that either. Drive and determination are certainly assets. But 1) there are those rare folks who succeed without it and 2) it's not sufficient for law school success. It's drive and determination plus other variables you can't predict as a 0L that makes the difference for most people.

If you really are just describing an attitude, then you should describe it that way. "I'm planning ahead for all outcomes, including success" sounds a lot less wrong than "I will succeed because I have the drive and determination to do so".

Also, some of the people giving you advice/criticizing your attitude were the most successful students at UVA last year. They're the ones who did succeed. Disagreeing with them means disagreeing with the very people who just did what you're "planning" to do.


I argue about the criticizing while taking in the advice. I learn when I am arguing. I do understand that my attitude usually invite arguments, online, and I am cool with that. You don't see me lose my cool and call people names...

I know people are not use to this attitude, I apologize. But I suppose my kind don't go to law school too often.

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vamedic03
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:11 pm

I hate to wade into this (not really):

(1) Re: 'Older' students and clerkships - Most of Law Review tends to be slightly older and have more work experience. They're doing just fine getting clerkships. In fact, the general trend with legal hiring, and clerkships, is that grades+work experience+age > grades alone

(2) I think it's really silly for r6 to claim that most students who enter law school don't have a strong drive to succeed. I will readily acknowledge that a certain percentage of the law school is semi or even generally apathetic. That said, there are many well accomplished, smart, hard working people who end up around median. I think it is really unfair to disparage people who don't succeed as not having enough 'drive.' There are plenty of people who work their ass off throughout the spectrum of grades.

(3) I think that the general sentiment against choosing/targeting firms prior to law school is pretty much correct. That said, I think that, if you have nothing better to do, it is valuable to start to become familiar with the big legal players.

(4) I can attest, as VanWinkle said, that the people who are discussing the lack of behavioral interview questions have significant experience through OGI and CB's.

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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:20 pm

vamedic03 wrote:I hate to wade into this (not really):

(1) Re: 'Older' students and clerkships - Most of Law Review tends to be slightly older and have more work experience. They're doing just fine getting clerkships. In fact, the general trend with legal hiring, and clerkships, is that grades+work experience+age > grades alone

(2) I think it's really silly for r6 to claim that most students who enter law school don't have a strong drive to succeed. I will readily acknowledge that a certain percentage of the law school is semi or even generally apathetic. That said, there are many well accomplished, smart, hard working people who end up around median. I think it is really unfair to disparage people who don't succeed as not having enough 'drive.' There are plenty of people who work their ass off throughout the spectrum of grades.

(3) I think that the general sentiment against choosing/targeting firms prior to law school is pretty much correct. That said, I think that, if you have nothing better to do, it is valuable to start to become familiar with the big legal players.

(4) I can attest, as VanWinkle said, that the people who are discussing the lack of behavioral interview questions have significant experience through OGI and CB's.


1. I will be close to 40. Maybe it doesn't make a difference, maybe it does. When I say "older" I don't mean late 20's. Sorry for not being clear.

2. I didn't imply that at all, they are just not to the level of what I have. I believe I can do anything I want to do, have done so previously, don't fault me for building on my own personal success. Of course you guys don't know me and the story behind it, so I apologize.

3. I still don't see a problem having a list of firm where I would target. Especially I have used their services before and worked with partners/associates professionally, on the same matters that I hope to be working on after law school. At the very least, there is one more thing to talk about during interviews.

4. I have no way of verifying one way of the other, I was imply relaying what the school said.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:32 pm

r6_philly wrote:I argue about the criticizing while taking in the advice. I learn when I am arguing. I do understand that my attitude usually invite arguments, online, and I am cool with that. You don't see me lose my cool and call people names...

I know people are not use to this attitude, I apologize. But I suppose my kind don't go to law school too often.

Actually we encounter such people in law school all the time. They have a confident attitude and argue with the professor in class because, they say, it's how they learn. We call them "gunners".

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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:36 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I argue about the criticizing while taking in the advice. I learn when I am arguing. I do understand that my attitude usually invite arguments, online, and I am cool with that. You don't see me lose my cool and call people names...

I know people are not use to this attitude, I apologize. But I suppose my kind don't go to law school too often.

Actually we encounter such people in law school all the time. They have a confident attitude and argue with the professor in class because, they say, it's how they learn. We call them "gunners".


I don't argue with professors, I have "spirited discussions" with classmates sometimes outside of class. But I am mostly quiet in class. I follow directions, think critically, and do my work on my own.

I know you guys are trying desperately to fit me into a stereotype, but I am not a gunner. I may gun for that empty plaque on the wall, but I do it in private.

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sundance95
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby sundance95 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:39 pm

r6_philly wrote:I will be close to 40.

Okay, you're older.
Image
Nevertheless, you might want to stop digging.

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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:40 pm

sundance95 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I will be close to 40.

Okay, you're older.
Image
Nevertheless, you might want to stop digging.


Why? It's MY grave.

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sundance95
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby sundance95 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:41 pm

Well, how deep do you need it to be? :lol:

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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:42 pm

sundance95 wrote:Well, how deep do you need it to be? :lol:


Until I it comes out to the other side, so I can go see my folks. :)

ETA: you guys are funny. Thanks for entertainment today. Work's boring.

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fatduck
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby fatduck » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:44 pm

r6_philly wrote:
sundance95 wrote:Well, how deep do you need it to be? :lol:


Until I it comes out to the other side, so I can go see my folks. :)

ETA: you guys are funny. Thanks for entertainment today. Work's boring.

you're australian?

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:48 pm

fatduck wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
sundance95 wrote:Well, how deep do you need it to be? :lol:


Until I it comes out to the other side, so I can go see my folks. :)

ETA: you guys are funny. Thanks for entertainment today. Work's boring.

you're australian?


Well, I have to dig around the core so I will come out in China (not a straight line)

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fatduck
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby fatduck » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:49 pm

r6_philly wrote:
fatduck wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
sundance95 wrote:Well, how deep do you need it to be? :lol:


Until I it comes out to the other side, so I can go see my folks. :)

ETA: you guys are funny. Thanks for entertainment today. Work's boring.

you're australian?


Well, I have to dig around the core so I will come out in China (not a straight line)

if you had real drive and determination you'd go right through the core. i'm disappointed.

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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:50 pm

fatduck wrote:if you had real drive and determination you'd go right through the core. i'm disappointed.


I do, but the shovel doesn't.

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RVP11
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby RVP11 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:51 pm

I think we should lay off r6 on the firm list thing. That's not a crazy thing given he's targeting a specific (and not terribly competitive) market. It would be a lot different if his list were the V5 + W&C/Covington/Gibson DC, etc.

And FWIW, I'm going to the exact firm I predicted before ever stepping foot in law school.

battle_tested
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby battle_tested » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:04 pm

I'd appreciate if some UVA students could weigh in on this. I've been admitted to UVA, and it's the only T10 I've been accepted to. I've also been accepted at GULC, with no money. GWU, WUSTL, UIUC, W&M with a small amount of money and some strong regional T2's with 1/2-2/3 scholarship. I'm positive I'm either going to attend UVA at sticker or one of the T2's because I've kind of taken an all or nothing approach to law schools and I really don't think the other schools are worth the additional debt over the T2's. I really like UVA, but I'm worried about the debt considering my goals. I want to work biglaw if possible, but I only want to work in a secondary market (I have 0 interest in NYC/DC/LA/Chi etc.). The type of markets I'm interested in are Cleveland,Columbus,Pittsburgh, Richmond, Charlotte etc. basically anything that size, preferably on the east coast/mid atlantic. Being that I don't want a large market, and most UVA grads go to NY/DC and other large markets, would it still be worth it for me to go to UVA and take on the additional debt? I'm also a little nervous because I've been following the 1L summer employment thread on here and it seems that most of the people getting paying jobs over the summer are either from HYS or strong regional T2's. I know 1L summer really doesn't have much to do with 2L summer hiring, but still.

Brock2010
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Brock2010 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:16 pm

Hey I was wondering if anybody could tell me about living expenses in charlottesville. Is 15,150 high or low for the year?

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arism87
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby arism87 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:17 pm

Brock2010 wrote:Hey I was wondering if anybody could tell me about living expenses in charlottesville. Is 15,150 high or low for the year?


It's high! I definitely lived on less than that when I was there, and several people on TLS have attested to the same.

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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Brock2010 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:23 pm

O ok thanks. Appreciate it! How big of a difference are we talking? A couple of thousand dollars?

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arism87
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby arism87 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:31 pm

Brock2010 wrote:O ok thanks. Appreciate it! How big of a difference are we talking? A couple of thousand dollars?


I mean... to be totally honest I don't have the stingiest lifestyle, so I probably spent close to that, but I waste a ton of money on the regular.

Ridiculous habits excluded, though, I think I spent about $10K-11K/year.

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Kohinoor
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:05 pm

Brock2010 wrote:O ok thanks. Appreciate it! How big of a difference are we talking? A couple of thousand dollars?

15k seems like a sweet spot.




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