UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
showNprove
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby showNprove » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:46 am

r6_philly wrote:
suspicious android wrote:
showNprove wrote:I had only two behavioral questions throughout all of my interviews--one during OGI and one during a callback.


Thank God to hear that the rumors of this bullshit seem to be exagerated. HR bullshit needs to die.


http://www.lawjobs.com/newsandviews/Law ... hbxlogin=1

Morgan Lewis, which is the focus of the article, asked one of the two behavioral questions that I received.

Based on my experiences, your chances of getting a behavioral question during an interview are less than 3%. If it's a new trend in law firm interviewing, the vast majority of law firms haven't gotten the memo.

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:52 am

showNprove wrote:Morgan Lewis, which is the focus of the article, asked one of the two behavioral questions that I received.

Based on my experiences, your chances of getting a behavioral question during an interview are less than 3%. If it's a new trend in law firm interviewing, the vast majority of law firms haven't gotten the memo.


Drinker Biddle and DLA Piper are both on my Philly list, I think I will run into this.

Not that I am concerned, but I only brought this up because CS placed heavy emphasis on interviewing in the session.

omg
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby omg » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:07 am

showNprove wrote:

Morgan Lewis, which is the focus of the article, asked one of the two behavioral questions that I received.

Based on my experiences, your chances of getting a behavioral question during an interview are less than 3%. If it's a new trend in law firm interviewing, the vast majority of law firms haven't gotten the memo.


I don't get it, r6. Do you think we're not telling the truth or something about the fact that we didn't get asked behavioral questions at OGI? Also, Dean Donovan came from Morgan Lewis. Maybe that explains his seemingly atypical focus on behavioral interviewing.

Wait: And you're a 0L and already have a "Philly list"??

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:23 am

omg wrote:I don't get it, r6. Do you think we're not telling the truth or something about the fact that we didn't get asked behavioral questions at OGI? Also, Dean Donovan came from Morgan Lewis. Maybe that explains his seemingly atypical focus on behavioral interviewing.

Wait: And you're a 0L and already have a "Philly list"??


I don't think that you guys are not getting these questions necessarily mean we will not get these questions. I would like to believe what Dean Donovan is saying since he would be assisting us getting jobs in 1-2 years.

Why is it surprising to think I have a list of firms I would like to target? I am coming to law school because I have dealt with these firms professionally in the past in the areas that I would like to practice - they are partially my inspiration to pursue law. 0Ls are not allowed to know where they are going professionally?

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sundance95
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby sundance95 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:37 am

suspicious android wrote:HR bullshit needs to die.

+1000

showNprove
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby showNprove » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:37 am

Dean Donovan also warned the C/O 2012 about behavioral questions. He is being cautious and trying to help students be as prepared as possible. In the end, though, if you aren't prepared for behavioral questioning, odds are that it will only hurt you in one interview, if at all.

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:44 am

showNprove wrote:Dean Donovan also warned the C/O 2012 about behavioral questions. He is being cautious and trying to help students be as prepared as possible. In the end, though, if you aren't prepared for behavioral questioning, odds are that it will only hurt you in one interview, if at all.


That makes sense. But what's the harm in being prepared for something that may or may not come?

I am the least concerned about it. I happen to like the technique. I used it in the past when I interview people and it helps me get a good sense of how they will fit on the team.

Anyway, I will drop it since no one likes to talk about it.

omg
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby omg » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:51 am

r6_philly wrote:Why is it surprising to think I have a list of firms I would like to target? I am coming to law school because I have dealt with these firms professionally in the past in the areas that I would like to practice - they are partially my inspiration to pursue law. 0Ls are not allowed to know where they are going professionally?


I mean, I am admittedly a huge gunner, but this is pretty extreme. And it's more like where you *hope* you *might* be going professionally. No 0L knows where they are going--law school success outcomes are far, far different from law school success expectations. But whatever; to each his own.

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:03 am

omg wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Why is it surprising to think I have a list of firms I would like to target? I am coming to law school because I have dealt with these firms professionally in the past in the areas that I would like to practice - they are partially my inspiration to pursue law. 0Ls are not allowed to know where they are going professionally?


I mean, I am admittedly a huge gunner, but this is pretty extreme. And it's more like where you *hope* you *might* be going professionally. No 0L knows where they are going--law school success outcomes are far, far different from law school success expectations. But whatever; to each his own.



I know where I am going professionally. I make reasonable assessments, I work hard, and I get there. This is not the first time. I accomplished things far far harder than this.

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sundance95
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby sundance95 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:12 am

--ImageRemoved--

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:17 am

sundance95 wrote:--ImageRemoved--


It's so ironic that you would use the term "sharp curve" ;)

Thank you for the warning, I am actually very professional at dealing with sharp curves :lol:

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Cavalier
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Cavalier » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:39 am

Forget about arriving here with a list of firms to target; you should come here with a list of judges to target for clerkships and figure out who your recommenders will be by September or October of your 1L year.

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predent/prelaw
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby predent/prelaw » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:15 am

Cavalier wrote:Forget about arriving here with a list of firms to target; you should come here with a list of judges to target for clerkships and figure out who your recommenders will be by September or October of your 1L year.


But don't you want the firm to pay you a stipend during the clerkship? Also do most UVA students do internships in DC and how does that work do you have to sublease a place for the summer? Also is it easy to sublease a place to someone in the summer at UVA?

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:43 am

Cavalier wrote:Forget about arriving here with a list of firms to target; you should come here with a list of judges to target for clerkships and figure out who your recommenders will be by September or October of your 1L year.


As much as I wanted to clerk, I don't think I can afford another year off financially. It's not like it's realistic to hope for a SCOTUS clerk and the resulting bonus. I would venture to say older students are at a disadvantage for clerkships anyway, right?

Starting early: You can start applying for 1L summer jobs 2 and an half month after school starts, so why not get a jump on it?

Recommenders - I am fully aware of the importance of this. I had my transcripts and LORs done before I took the LSAT. Oh yes, I targeted schools before I took the LSAT too.

omg
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby omg » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:43 am

Yea, Cav, stop giving r6 advice. He knows everything already. Duhh.

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:58 am

omg wrote:Yea, Cav, stop giving r6 advice. He knows everything already. Duhh.


Not everything, that's why I am going to school.

I don't know why you think 0Ls are supposed to be ignorant about everything. I met plenty of admits who knows plenty more than me about the whole thing. Not everyone came straight from UG wide-eyed and waiting to be reality shocked.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:04 am

r6_philly wrote:I don't know why you think 0Ls are supposed to be ignorant about everything. I met plenty of admits who knows plenty more than me about the whole thing. Not everyone came straight from UG wide-eyed and waiting to be reality shocked.

Because part of the "reality" of law school is that you absolutely cannot predict how well you will do in law school based on your pre-law-school accomplishments. This is especially true in the very top law schools, where the vast majority of the student body is made up of people who were accomplished and had proven themselves prior to going to law school. And a large number of them are bringing post-UG life experience with them, too.

You're graded on a curve, and going to a school full of people who were all incredibly successful in their prior lives. And the curve is based solely on exams of a kind you've never taken before.

By acting so confident, you sound like someone who is waiting to be reality-shocked.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:18 am

r6_philly wrote:
omg wrote:Yea, Cav, stop giving r6 advice. He knows everything already. Duhh.


Not everything, that's why I am going to school.

I don't know why you think 0Ls are supposed to be ignorant about everything. I met plenty of admits who knows plenty more than me about the whole thing. Not everyone came straight from UG wide-eyed and waiting to be reality shocked.


Honestly what they're talking about has nothing to do with coming straight from undergrad or being young. Whether you're 22 or 42 you still have to take law exams, receive grades, and THEN apply/interview for jobs. The problem with having targets that are too specific (unless they're things like PI jobs that aren't super focused on grades--which admittedly do exist) is that legal employers (especially the one's you seem interested in, law firms) determine who they hire/don't almost 80 percent on grades.

Most firms have hard cutoffs which they will not drop below. Now in your defense you seem to be interested in a market that won't have a lot of firms that are extraordinarily selective but nonetheless even they will have grade cutoffs. I was talking to an older family member the other day, and they were shocked at the way legal hiring works. They couldn't understand how grades could be so important for a professional position and why grades would be given out on a forced curve. They spoke about how things like resume interview skills etc. are the real selling points. You seem to think in this same manner. Those things matter for law firms, but ONLY if you meet their grade cutoffs.

The other thing is that you're talking about getting a 1L firm job and how you need a paying 1L job. Unfortunately, though unless you are URM or have an extremely strong connection with a hiring partner at a firm that's extremely unlikely to happen.
Last edited by BruceWayne on Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:19 am

vanwinkle wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I don't know why you think 0Ls are supposed to be ignorant about everything. I met plenty of admits who knows plenty more than me about the whole thing. Not everyone came straight from UG wide-eyed and waiting to be reality shocked.

Because part of the "reality" of law school is that you absolutely cannot predict how well you will do in law school based on your pre-law-school accomplishments. This is especially true in the very top law schools, where the vast majority of the student body is made up of people who were accomplished and had proven themselves prior to going to law school. And a large number of them are bringing post-UG life experience with them, too.

You're graded on a curve, and going to a school full of people who were all incredibly successful in their prior lives. And the curve is based solely on exams of a kind you've never taken before.

By acting so confident, you sound like someone who is waiting to be reality-shocked.


You should know that I will never be reality-shocked after everything prior to law school. But I guess not everyone knows that, so I understand how it may look. Most things I have done have to be far tougher than getting median at law school. If I was wrong (which I very well may be), then I will accept I suck at it.

You do know based on my background, there is no way I won't be confident - for 10 years the mantra for my profession is "second place is the first loser" ;) I am not about to go change it now. If I wasn't confident, I would have chosen a safer path (and I have many of those). My mentor/coach always told me, if you don't think you will win, don't bother showing up... It helped me to be a winner, and I am sticking to it.

Besides, if I end up wrong, then I will take another path... There is no defeating me (you should know).

omg
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby omg » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:22 am

r6_philly wrote:
omg wrote:Yea, Cav, stop giving r6 advice. He knows everything already. Duhh.


Not everything, that's why I am going to school.

I don't know why you think 0Ls are supposed to be ignorant about everything. I met plenty of admits who knows plenty more than me about the whole thing. Not everyone came straight from UG wide-eyed and waiting to be reality shocked.


Haha did I ever say that "0Ls are supposed to be ignorant about everything"?? Not at all. You just happen to be showing your own ignorance AND refusal to acknowledge it by insisting--or at least suggesting--to everyone else that lots of firms ask lots of behavioral questions, that people can accurately predict how well they will do in law school, and, most recently, that older students are at a disadvantage in the clerkship application process. Whatever, though--I'm getting out of this conversation before I get myself in trouble.

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:29 am

BruceWayne wrote:
Honestly what they're talking about has nothing to do with coming straight from undergrad or being young. Whether your 22 or 42 you still have to take law exams, receive grades, and THEN apply/interview for jobs. The problem with having targets that are too specific (unless they're things like PI jobs that aren't super focused on grades--which admittedly do exist) is that legal employers (especially the one's you seem interested in, law firms) determine who they hire/don't almost 80 percent on grades.

Most firms have hard cutoffs which they will not drop below. Now in your defense you seem to be interested in a market that won't have a lot of firms that are extraordinarily selective but nonetheless even they will have grade cutoffs. I was talking to an older family member the other day, and they were shocked at the way legal hiring works. They couldn't understand how grades could be so important for a professional position and why grades would be given out on a forced curve. They spoke about how things like resume interview skills etc. are the real selling points. You seem to think in this same manner. Those things matter for law firms, but ONLY if you meet their grade cutoffs.

The other thing is that you're talking about getting a 1L firm job and how you need a paying 1L job. Unfortunately, though unless you are URM or have an extremely strong connection with a hiring partner at a firm that's extremely unlikely to happen.


I understand this already. I have read/asked/read again all these questions for the last 2 years, before I even decided to go to law school. I have plans for every scenario, including failing, but there is no need to discuss those since they only apply to me personally.

I just happen to be a planner. Think like a computer programmer that I am, plans for all scenarios and have goals.

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predent/prelaw
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby predent/prelaw » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:30 am

cock bags

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:32 am

omg wrote:Haha did I ever say that "0Ls are supposed to be ignorant about everything"?? Not at all. You just happen to be showing your own ignorance AND refusal to acknowledge it by insisting--or at least suggesting--to everyone else that lots of firms ask lots of behavioral questions, that people can accurately predict how well they will do in law school, and, most recently, that older students are at a disadvantage in the clerkship application process. Whatever, though--I'm getting out of this conversation before I get myself in trouble.


I reported what the career services session was centered on. I am ignorant because I was told by the school? Ok.

older students re: clerkship - it was a question.

Hey, if I am wrong, that's less competition for fellow students, you should be happy that I am wrong.

r6_philly
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:33 am

Why wouldn't current students act this way in person? Apparently this is a TLS problem.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:36 am

r6_philly wrote:You should know that I will never be reality-shocked after everything prior to law school. But I guess not everyone knows that, so I understand how it may look. Most things I have done have to be far tougher than getting median at law school. If I was wrong (which I very well may be), then I will accept I suck at it.

You're misunderstanding everyone. Nobody is trying to say that you lack the necessary drive or determination to beat the curve. Nobody's saying you're not "tough enough". They're saying that toughness and drive is not what matters. A top law school is going to select a class full of people who have demonstrated drive and determination. Many of them will show as much determination as you will. Some of them will beat you on the curve. Some won't be that dedicated in law school. Some of those who don't will still beat you on the curve.

Law school success is not predetermined by the amount of drive or determination you have. This is what people are trying to tell you, and they have reasons for doing so.

r6_philly wrote:You do know based on my background, there is no way I won't be confident - for 10 years the mantra for my profession is "second place is the first loser" ;) I am not about to go change it now. If I wasn't confident, I would have chosen a safer path (and I have many of those).

The problem isn't that you're confident. Confidence is saying "I have what it takes to succeed." Most people who choose to go to a top law school have that kind of confidence and legitimately so. But that's the whole point. You're going into a program where everyone (or at least nearly everyone) will have similar abilities and confidence, and they're your competition.

You know my background, and you know how much I've accomplished. I'm telling you that it's a mistake to be that presumptive. It's good to be confident, but you're projecting yourself as someone presuming you will succeed, and that only comes across as arrogant to people who've actually been through law school and know for certain that you can't make those kind of assumptions as a 0L.




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