UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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dgouzoul
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby dgouzoul » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:58 pm

things are getting hot and heavy here

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:05 pm

emilybeth wrote:
That being said, Boalt's prospects are still better than UVa's ITE. No hating, just stating facts. Boalt is not Cali-exclusive as some Virginiaites have (wrongly) stated in this thread.



Don't take this as UVA trolling, but where did you come up with this? Based on the OCI rumors from supposed 2L's around here, most say MVPB was hit comparably, with Boalt possibly getting hit the worst. Pre-ITE, the placement numbers were comparable and California seems to be struggling worse than many markets. My guess is that placement will be similar, but I don't know why Boalt would place markedly better. I've only thoroughly scanned the NALP directory for Texas firms since as of now I plan on coming back after graduation, but every single big Texas firm went to UVA OCI (again, this is pre ITE) and almost none went to Boalt.

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kurama20
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby kurama20 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:21 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
emilybeth wrote:
That being said, Boalt's prospects are still better than UVa's ITE. No hating, just stating facts. Boalt is not Cali-exclusive as some Virginiaites have (wrongly) stated in this thread.



Don't take this as UVA trolling, but where did you come up with this? Based on the OCI rumors from supposed 2L's around here, most say MVPB was hit comparably, with Boalt possibly getting hit the worst. Pre-ITE, the placement numbers were comparable and California seems to be struggling worse than many markets. My guess is that placement will be similar, but I don't know why Boalt would place markedly better. I've only thoroughly scanned the NALP directory for Texas firms since as of now I plan on coming back after graduation, but every single big Texas firm went to UVA OCI (again, this is pre ITE) and almost none went to Boalt.



Overall US News rank, where 75 percent of TLSers get their employment and placement "facts" from.

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dgouzoul
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby dgouzoul » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:07 pm

Do people just make this stuff up or do they really follow US News overall numerical rank that blindly?


Overall US News rank, where 75 percent of TLSers get their employment and placement "facts" from


Well, there you go

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bilbobaggins
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:17 am

Stringer Bell wrote:
emilybeth wrote:
That being said, Boalt's prospects are still better than UVa's ITE. No hating, just stating facts. Boalt is not Cali-exclusive as some Virginiaites have (wrongly) stated in this thread.



Don't take this as UVA trolling, but where did you come up with this? Based on the OCI rumors from supposed 2L's around here, most say MVPB was hit comparably, with Boalt possibly getting hit the worst. Pre-ITE, the placement numbers were comparable and California seems to be struggling worse than many markets. My guess is that placement will be similar, but I don't know why Boalt would place markedly better. I've only thoroughly scanned the NALP directory for Texas firms since as of now I plan on coming back after graduation, but every single big Texas firm went to UVA OCI (again, this is pre ITE) and almost none went to Boalt.


Evaluate the first half of that sentence and then explain to me how it's any different/better than EB's statement.

TLS generally favors the east coast schools using a limited amount of OCI data (which firms are going where). This data does a poor job giving a clear picture of what's happening. From what I have seen, if you're at Boalt and you want a job in DC you can get one. Same goes for NYC. The 2Ls I know who want to be in DC this summer is going to be. Boalt also has a DC program (along with UCLA and UCI at some point) and this will only make it easier for Boalties to get jobs in DC.

There seems to be a lot of defensiveness about rankings, which I find bizarre.

Finally, I really wouldn't evaluate these two schools based on some marginal difference in employment prospects. I would go to the school where you think you'll have the best time and where studying law will be as fun as possible because you will have fantastic opportunities in DC if you go to either. TLS's pessimism just doesn't jive with what I see in the real world.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:19 am

Any argument about whether Berkeley is better than UVA is pointless for the poster's situation. Either 1) Berkeley is marginally better or 2) Berkeley is equal to UVA, and neither case can really justify taking Berkeley at sticker over a full ride at UVA. The truly hard questions are going to be whether Harvard or Stanford at sticker are worth it.

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kurama20
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby kurama20 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:24 am

bilbobaggins wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
emilybeth wrote:
That being said, Boalt's prospects are still better than UVa's ITE. No hating, just stating facts. Boalt is not Cali-exclusive as some Virginiaites have (wrongly) stated in this thread.



Don't take this as UVA trolling, but where did you come up with this? Based on the OCI rumors from supposed 2L's around here, most say MVPB was hit comparably, with Boalt possibly getting hit the worst. Pre-ITE, the placement numbers were comparable and California seems to be struggling worse than many markets. My guess is that placement will be similar, but I don't know why Boalt would place markedly better. I've only thoroughly scanned the NALP directory for Texas firms since as of now I plan on coming back after graduation, but every single big Texas firm went to UVA OCI (again, this is pre ITE) and almost none went to Boalt.


Evaluate the first half of that sentence and then explain to me how it's any different/better than EB's statement.

TLS generally favors the east coast schools using a limited amount of OCI data (which firms are going where). This data does a poor job giving a clear picture of what's happening. From what I have seen, if you're at Boalt and you want a job in DC you can get one. Same goes for NYC. The 2Ls I know who want to be in DC this summer is going to be. Boalt also has a DC program (along with UCLA and UCI at some point) and this will only make it easier for Boalties to get jobs in DC.

There seems to be a lot of defensiveness about rankings, which I find bizarre.

Finally, I really wouldn't evaluate these two schools based on some marginal difference in employment prospects. I would go to the school where you think you'll have the best time and where studying law will be as fun as possible because you will have fantastic opportunities in DC if you go to either. TLS's pessimism just doesn't jive with what I see in the real world.



The difference is that EB said that Boalt is the stronger school, which is patently false. To make it worse he actually went so far as to make the claim that it was "fact" that Boalt is a stronger school than UVA. This is an obvious sign that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Also no one ever said that Boalt grads couldn't get a job in DC, I'm not sure where you're getting that (although I promise you it will be harder to get a DC job from Boalt than from UVA, same with getting a Cali job from UVA compared to Boalt). Boalt is definitely equal to UVA.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby Stringer Bell » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:56 am

bilbobaggins wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
emilybeth wrote:
That being said, Boalt's prospects are still better than UVa's ITE. No hating, just stating facts. Boalt is not Cali-exclusive as some Virginiaites have (wrongly) stated in this thread.



Don't take this as UVA trolling, but where did you come up with this? Based on the OCI rumors from supposed 2L's around here, most say MVPB was hit comparably, with Boalt possibly getting hit the worst. Pre-ITE, the placement numbers were comparable and California seems to be struggling worse than many markets. My guess is that placement will be similar, but I don't know why Boalt would place markedly better. I've only thoroughly scanned the NALP directory for Texas firms since as of now I plan on coming back after graduation, but every single big Texas firm went to UVA OCI (again, this is pre ITE) and almost none went to Boalt.


Evaluate the first half of that sentence and then explain to me how it's any different/better than EB's statement.

TLS generally favors the east coast schools using a limited amount of OCI data (which firms are going where). This data does a poor job giving a clear picture of what's happening. From what I have seen, if you're at Boalt and you want a job in DC you can get one. Same goes for NYC. The 2Ls I know who want to be in DC this summer is going to be. Boalt also has a DC program (along with UCLA and UCI at some point) and this will only make it easier for Boalties to get jobs in DC.

There seems to be a lot of defensiveness about rankings, which I find bizarre.

Finally, I really wouldn't evaluate these two schools based on some marginal difference in employment prospects. I would go to the school where you think you'll have the best time and where studying law will be as fun as possible because you will have fantastic opportunities in DC if you go to either. TLS's pessimism just doesn't jive with what I see in the real world.


First of all, I asked a question. If EB has support for what seems to me like an inaccurate blanket statement (Boalt is better than UVA ITE, that's a fact), I'm certainly willing to listen. All I have to go by is outdated employment statistics and rumors from current students on here. For the latter, supposed Boalties have thrown out some of the horror stories that seem to match MVP.

Second, I didn't even mention DC. I haven't really researched it that much, but I'm sure more DC firms go to UVA just like more Cali firms go to Boalt. You can certainly go to both markets from both schools. If the poster has a full scholly to both, I'd visit both schools and see which one seems like a better fit. If only UVA offers a full scholly, as Ja Rule once said "It ain't even a question..."

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bilbobaggins
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:22 am

Guys, you're getting caught up in the facts. I don't care about those.

I will say this, EB didn't say Berk was a stronger school in general, she said it had stronger prospects. I think the former is a sure thing and the latter is probably not 100% correct.

I don't get this concept of "harder to get a job there." If everyone is able to place into the markets they want to, and at Boalt from what I've seen, lots of people who want to go to DC go to DC, then how are we defining hardness? God forbid someone has to send a resume or two out.

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YCrevolution
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby YCrevolution » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:24 am

..

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:26 am

I would like some facts that exhibit why Berkeley is a better school.

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kurama20
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby kurama20 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:27 am

bilbobaggins wrote:Guys, you're getting caught up in the facts. I don't care about those.

I will say this, EB didn't say Berk was a stronger school in general, she said it had stronger prospects. I think the former is a sure thing and the latter is probably not 100% correct.

I don't get this concept of "harder to get a job there." If everyone is able to place into the markets they want to, and at Boalt from what I've seen, lots of people who want to go to DC go to DC, then how are we defining hardness? God forbid someone has to send a resume or two out.



lol that's because the facts are all that matters. Geographical preferences and experiences with schools do matter when it comes to firm jobs. It will simply be harder for a Boalt grad with no ties to get a job in DC than it will be for a comparable UVA grad, especially with their unique grading system that doesn't fly as well with firms outside of Cali (it flies so well with Cali firms because they have an immense amount of respect for Boalt; it's borderline Harvard in Cali.) A UVA grad with no Cali ties will have a lot harder time landing a Cali job than a comparable Boalt grad. Geography matters, especially outside of HY. Also that comment about Boalt having stronger prospects is not just "probably not 100 percent correct" it's 100 percent wrong.

jawsthegreat wrote:I would like some facts that exhibit why Berkeley is a better school.


US News has their overall rank at 5.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:29 am

kurama20 wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Guys, you're getting caught up in the facts. I don't care about those.

I will say this, EB didn't say Berk was a stronger school in general, she said it had stronger prospects. I think the former is a sure thing and the latter is probably not 100% correct.

I don't get this concept of "harder to get a job there." If everyone is able to place into the markets they want to, and at Boalt from what I've seen, lots of people who want to go to DC go to DC, then how are we defining hardness? God forbid someone has to send a resume or two out.



lol that's because the facts are all that matters. Geographical preferences and experiences with schools do matter when it comes to firm jobs. It will simply be harder for a Boalt grad with no ties to get a job in DC than it will be for a comparable UVA grad, especially with their unique grading system that doesn't fly as well with firms outside of Cali (it flies so well with Cali firms because they have an immense amount of respect for Boalt; it's borderline Harvard in Cali.) A UVA grad with no Cali ties will have a lot harder time landing a Cali job than a comparable Boalt grad. Geography matters, especially outside of HY. Also that comment about Boalt having stronger prospects is not just "probably not 100 percent correct" it's 100 percent wrong.

jawsthegreat wrote:I would like some facts that exhibit why Berkeley is a better school.


US News has their overall rank at 5.


My point exactly.

lnz103
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby lnz103 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:56 am

Is anyone on here paying full price and taking on at least 130k in debt? Know of anyone who is? I really doubt I'll get anything but loans and was wondering if anyone can talk about how that feels/is working out :?

LSlobbyist
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby LSlobbyist » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:40 am

Thank you to everyone for all the advice from both sides of the argument. The general consensus seems to echo my own line of reasoning thus far, and it's nice to have some feedback.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:41 am

lnz103 wrote:Is anyone on here paying full price and taking on at least 130k in debt? Know of anyone who is? I really doubt I'll get anything but loans and was wondering if anyone can talk about how that feels/is working out :?


I'm estimating 150K of debt when I graduate.

IBR. Income-Based Repayment. Search the forums for info on it, Google it, know it, love it. It will be your best friend for post-graduation debt management.

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dgouzoul
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby dgouzoul » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:56 am

I'll be somewhere around 150k in debt as well.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:07 am

So wait all your loans are forgiven or something after a certain period?

lnz103
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby lnz103 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:18 am

jawsthegreat wrote:So wait all your loans are forgiven or something after a certain period?


With the IBR they are forgiven after 25 years... with the standard public service loan forgiveness I believe the balance remaining after making payments for ten years while working in public service is forgiven. Under the Virginia loan forgiveness, they make your loan payments (essentially) for as long as you work in public service in Virginia. The VA one sounds great to me, but assuming you don't want public service the best option may be to just suck it up and live minimally so that you can pay off quickly. Or marry rich.

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Kohinoor
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:50 am

kurama20 wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Guys, you're getting caught up in the facts. I don't care about those.

I will say this, EB didn't say Berk was a stronger school in general, she said it had stronger prospects. I think the former is a sure thing and the latter is probably not 100% correct.

I don't get this concept of "harder to get a job there." If everyone is able to place into the markets they want to, and at Boalt from what I've seen, lots of people who want to go to DC go to DC, then how are we defining hardness? God forbid someone has to send a resume or two out.



lol that's because the facts are all that matters. Geographical preferences and experiences with schools do matter when it comes to firm jobs. It will simply be harder for a Boalt grad with no ties to get a job in DC than it will be for a comparable UVA grad, especially with their unique grading system that doesn't fly as well with firms outside of Cali (it flies so well with Cali firms because they have an immense amount of respect for Boalt; it's borderline Harvard in Cali.) A UVA grad with no Cali ties will have a lot harder time landing a Cali job than a comparable Boalt grad. Geography matters, especially outside of HY. Also that comment about Boalt having stronger prospects is not just "probably not 100 percent correct" it's 100 percent wrong.

jawsthegreat wrote:I would like some facts that exhibit why Berkeley is a better school.


US News has their overall rank at 5.

I thought Berk was at 6. If they're at 5 then I take everything back and Berk is clearly a superior school (unless it drops to 7 this year in which case it's inferior)

irishman86
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby irishman86 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:21 am

kurama20 wrote:

The difference is that EB said that Boalt is the stronger school, which is patently false. To make it worse he actually went so far as to make the claim that it was "fact" that Boalt is a stronger school than UVA. This is an obvious sign that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Also no one ever said that Boalt grads couldn't get a job in DC, I'm not sure where you're getting that (although I promise you it will be harder to get a DC job from Boalt than from UVA, same with getting a Cali job from UVA compared to Boalt). Boalt is definitely equal to UVA.


titcr. It's easier going to certain markets from certain schools, whether it's because of OCI, proximity and accessibility to interviews, etc. I don't get why some people in this thread are disputing that. This is a big reason why I'm probably going to choose a MVP over Boalt, because I want to work on the East Coast.

ashdiamond
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby ashdiamond » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:46 am

ridleyroses wrote:this might be a shot in the dark, but do you know what the situation is with squash courts? It seems like the university doesn't have a team, im wondering if any law students play squash somewhere in the area?


Hey Ridley,

Fellow 0L and squashie here :)

--I've heard that there are 2 squash courts in the Graduate Center gym, which is right between the Law School and Darden.

The school website lists 3 more courts at the Slaughter Gym, but given that the UG squash clubs practice at the Albemarle Racquet Club, which looks like it only has 2 courts, I'm guessing that the Slaughter courts are old narrows.

The Graduate Center gym was apparently renovated in 2006, so here's hoping that they're not narrows, and that maybe they just don't let UGs use the Graduate Center or something, haha.

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kurama20
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby kurama20 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:56 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:I would like some facts that exhibit why Berkeley is a better school.


US News has their overall rank at 5.[/quote]
I thought Berk was at 6. If they're at 5 then I take everything back and Berk is clearly a superior school (unless it drops to 7 this year in which case it's inferior)[/quote]

It's hard to keep up with Boalt's ranking. A few years ago they were number 13. I guess that means that they were the second worst top 14 at that time. If they jump to 4 next year they will definitely be better than every school except HYS.

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ReelectClayDavis
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby ReelectClayDavis » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:10 pm

Hi everyone,
I'm a recent admit leaning strongly towards UVA for personal reasons. Planning on living with my SO near the grounds, so I'm going to need to drive or take the bus.

Regarding parking, http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/inside ... rvices.htm makes it sound like 1Ls don't have a chance to park near the law school:
"Parking is available for law students near the Law School on a reserved basis for $216 per school year in D-3 lots (prices changes in June of each year). A lottery system is used to allocate available spaces, and eligibility for the lottery is determined by the Student Bar Association (SBA).

Eligibility is generally limited to third-year law students. Any students who commute over 50 miles and those who have small children (under age twelve) living with them may be eligible for special parking."

But in this thread, I see that
vamedic03 wrote: FYI - This isn't exactly true . . . everyone who applied for a D3 permit (the closer permit) during the second lottery received it, so I, and the other 1L's I know who applied for it, have a D3 permit and park very close to the school (about a 100 yard walk)...


Can anyone elaborate on this? When is this parking lottery held, what do you do to enter it, when is the "second lottery," and most importantly, can a 1L who doesn't meet the standard listed on the website for a hardship exception really count on getting a spot?

Also, any comments on taking buses from the grounds to law school? How late does service run, and is it reliable?

Thanks much everyone!

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 1L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:14 pm

ReelectClayDavis wrote:Also, any comments on taking buses from the grounds to law school? How late does service run, and is it reliable?


I missed a class during the first full week of classes because I relied on the buses.

I took the bus down to the main grounds to go hang out at the Corner, figuring the bus only takes about 10min to get me back to campus and they run every 10-15min. However, what I didn't know at the time was that the undergrads start and have their orientation a week before everyone else does. Waiting at the UVA chapel (closest bus stop to the Corner), every single bus headed toward the law school bypassed us with BUS FULL, and they were obviously packed to the gills with students heading to JPJ arena for orientation.

I waited more than half an hour for a bus that wasn't full before I gave up. A crowd of over a hundred people had gathered at the bus stop around me, and finally they all gave up and started walking. I did too. I made it to campus late for my class, it was a professor who's hostile to latecomers, and I felt like hell, so I didn't try to catch the last part of the class.

The buses are usually reliable, except when they're not.




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