UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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vamedic03
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:55 pm

Doritos wrote:FWIW career services says firm jobs for 1Ls so far is up substantially this year compared to last year. Last year's 1L class, 19% did firm work for 1L. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes up to ~25% which is not an insignificant number so this "delusional" talk seems not quite on the mark. But then again the stats could be lies and my anecdotal evidence could be untrue...


Also, the term 'firm' is rather vague. 'Firm' includes everything from SullCrom to Joe Blow & Associates DUI defense.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:58 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Doritos wrote:FWIW career services says

Yeah I stopped reading there.

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LLB2JD
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby LLB2JD » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:02 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
Doritos wrote:FWIW career services says firm jobs for 1Ls so far is up substantially this year compared to last year. Last year's 1L class, 19% did firm work for 1L. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes up to ~25% which is not an insignificant number so this "delusional" talk seems not quite on the mark. But then again the stats could be lies and my anecdotal evidence could be untrue...


Also, the term 'firm' is rather vague. 'Firm' includes everything from SullCrom to Joe Blow & Associates DUI defense.


Right, but I've been following the 1L SA thread, and it appears BruceWayne might be right. A decent number of folks got jobs. I mean as a 1L, all you want is a shot at least to be able to apply on time. It will be rather unfortunate to potentially miss out on deadlines because the school was taking their sweet time in releasing grades when most other schools had done theirs weeks ago.

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RVP11
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby RVP11 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:21 pm

BruceWayne wrote:The thing about 1L firm jobs being a hopeless goal is pretty inaccurate depending on who you are. Not to get into a racially fueled war but for URMS they are a realistic goal. This is particularly true for those of us from the South. Many of the Southern firms are willing to hire URM 1L's but this grade thing is really putting us at a disadvantage. And that's not even including the large number of diversity 1L summer associate programs outside the South. Many of their deadlines have already passed. I know a pretty good bit of URMs across all years who landed 1L firm jobs. Surprisingly about half of them got them in DC at that (which according to TLS is supposed to be impossible). I hate to say this but if you are a URM applicant I do think that you should take UVA's extremely slow grade processing time into account. It could mean the difference between getting a 1L firm job.


There is some truth to this. Patton Boggs in DC, for instance, takes a URM 1L from UVA just about every year.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:24 pm

RVP11 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:The thing about 1L firm jobs being a hopeless goal is pretty inaccurate depending on who you are. Not to get into a racially fueled war but for URMS they are a realistic goal. This is particularly true for those of us from the South. Many of the Southern firms are willing to hire URM 1L's but this grade thing is really putting us at a disadvantage. And that's not even including the large number of diversity 1L summer associate programs outside the South. Many of their deadlines have already passed. I know a pretty good bit of URMs across all years who landed 1L firm jobs. Surprisingly about half of them got them in DC at that (which according to TLS is supposed to be impossible). I hate to say this but if you are a URM applicant I do think that you should take UVA's extremely slow grade processing time into account. It could mean the difference between getting a 1L firm job.


There is some truth to this. Patton Boggs in DC, for instance, takes a URM 1L from UVA just about every year.


They're others too. BLSA sends out a lot of 1L firm associate program opportunities on their list serv. They really are an attainable goal. I'm not saying they're easy, but if you are a URM going into law school it's a goal that you can set and realistically achieve. The thing is that these opportunities are not exclusive to UVA students. That's why getting grades late can hurt you for these positions.

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Doritos
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Doritos » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:37 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Doritos wrote:FWIW career services says

Yeah I stopped reading there.


You guys think career services blatantly lies to students? I ask sincerely so I can know how seriously I can take their advice in the future.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:41 pm

Doritos wrote:You guys think career services blatantly lies to students?

No, but there is a very wide gap of possibilities between "blatantly lies to students" and "gives correct and accurate advice 100% of the time".

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Doritos
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Doritos » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:56 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Doritos wrote:You guys think career services blatantly lies to students?

No, but there is a very wide gap of possibilities between "blatantly lies to students" and "gives correct and accurate advice 100% of the time".


Ah, so caution is necessary. I would think that they wouldn't have an incentive to mislead students because realistically they already have our money and probably the overwhelming majority as so committed at this point that they aren't going to drop out. Giving false info to current students, it would seem at least, would lead to them being less effective at securing jobs which would only hurt the school. Now PROSPECTIVE students that's a whole nuther story...

omg
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby omg » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:00 pm

Is this for serious?! Are they really not gonna put up any new (not to mention old) evals today?

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:02 pm

Doritos wrote:Ah, so caution is necessary. I would think that they wouldn't have an incentive to mislead students because realistically they already have our money and probably the overwhelming majority as so committed at this point that they aren't going to drop out. Giving false info to current students, it would seem at least, would lead to them being less effective at securing jobs which would only hurt the school.

One only strives to give more correct advice if one is aware their current advice is incorrect. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

TigerBeer
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby TigerBeer » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:04 pm

recently i realized that feb 1 isn't the deadline for when grades are posted, it's the deadline for professors to SUBMIT their grades. it could still take a few days for the grades to actually post. sigh.

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soullesswonder
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby soullesswonder » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:07 pm

Doritos wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Doritos wrote:You guys think career services blatantly lies to students?

No, but there is a very wide gap of possibilities between "blatantly lies to students" and "gives correct and accurate advice 100% of the time".


Ah, so caution is necessary. I would think that they wouldn't have an incentive to mislead students because realistically they already have our money and probably the overwhelming majority as so committed at this point that they aren't going to drop out. Giving false info to current students, it would seem at least, would lead to them being less effective at securing jobs which would only hurt the school. Now PROSPECTIVE students that's a whole nuther story...


This might be heresy (being a UVA thread and all) but I don't have nearly as much confidence in Career Services here as I did when I was looking at Duke. The fact that we don't put out a full spreadsheet of 2L summer employment outcomes rankles me, and while CSO has been perfectly cordial with me here I don't have nearly the same rapport with them as I did when I was talking with Career Services at Duke (part of that may be the class size thing, but I dunno).

/copies statement, saves for future alibi when blatantly trolling for UVA

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Doritos
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Doritos » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:09 pm

TigerBeer wrote:recently i realized that feb 1 isn't the deadline for when grades are posted, it's the deadline for professors to SUBMIT their grades. it could will still take a few days for the grades to actually post. sigh.

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vamedic03
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:10 pm

omg wrote:Is this for serious?! Are they really not gonna put up any new (not to mention old) evals today?


Yes. Would you like to see my surprised face?

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Kohinoor
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:27 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
omg wrote:Is this for serious?! Are they really not gonna put up any new (not to mention old) evals today?


Yes. Would you like to see my surprised face?

my face when grades continued not to be put up.
Image

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pjo
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby pjo » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:28 pm

Just some random questions that came to mind as I was reading recent posts on this thread:

1. Returning to employment with the state AG, does anyone know the salary range for a clerk with the state AG or salary of a Deputy AG I?

2. There are two different moot court teams? Can someone elaborate on this please (i.e. how they're different, when tryouts are, how long they last, how much time they take up and how difficult it is to be chosen for them)

3. Can someone explain the "Dillards Fellow" thing.

thanks

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Kohinoor
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:28 pm

omg wrote:Is this for serious?! Are they really not gonna put up any new (not to mention old) evals today?

count your blessings. In my day, we were lucky to have our fall financial aid by now.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:39 pm

pjo wrote:Just some random questions that came to mind as I was reading recent posts on this thread:

1. Returning to employment with the state AG, does anyone know the salary range for a clerk with the state AG or salary of a Deputy AG I?

2. There are two different moot court teams? Can someone elaborate on this please (i.e. how they're different, when tryouts are, how long they last, how much time they take up and how difficult it is to be chosen for them)

3. Can someone explain the "Dillards Fellow" thing.

thanks


Extramural is open to all years and is run by students. Lile Moot Court begins in the fall of 2L and is judged by actual COA judges and is put on by the school. It's uber prestigious and very competitive. Ted Kennedy won it when he was here. First place gets a cash prize and their names on a plaque.

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pjo
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby pjo » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:42 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
pjo wrote:Just some random questions that came to mind as I was reading recent posts on this thread:

1. Returning to employment with the state AG, does anyone know the salary range for a clerk with the state AG or salary of a Deputy AG I?

2. There are two different moot court teams? Can someone elaborate on this please (i.e. how they're different, when tryouts are, how long they last, how much time they take up and how difficult it is to be chosen for them)

3. Can someone explain the "Dillards Fellow" thing.

thanks


Extramural is open to all years and is run by students. Lile Moot Court begins in the fall of 2L and is judged by actual COA judges and is put on by the school. It's uber prestigious and very competitive. Ted Kennedy won it when he was here. First place gets a cash prize and their names on a plaque.


What is the process for deciding who gets to do Lile Moot Court? How long does it last (all 2L yr or both 2L and 3L?)

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Cavalier
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:44 pm

Lile Moot Court begins in the fall of 2L and is judged by actual COA judges and is put on by the school. It's uber prestigious and very competitive.

It's mostly judged by 3Ls. The quarterfinals are judged by professors, the semifinals by district court judges, and the final round by circuit court judges. And it's neither prestigious nor competitive (until you get to the quarterfinals).

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Cavalier
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:46 pm

pjo wrote:What is the process for deciding who gets to do Lile Moot Court? How long does it last (all 2L yr or both 2L and 3L?)

Anyone can sign up. The first round is September of your 2L year. 64 will advance to the second round, where they will pair up and compete in February. 16 (8 teams) advance to the quarterfinals, which occur in September of 3L. 4 teams advance to the semifinals in February, and 2 teams advance to the final in April.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:48 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Lile Moot Court begins in the fall of 2L and is judged by actual COA judges and is put on by the school. It's uber prestigious and very competitive.

It's mostly judged by 3Ls. The quarterfinals are judged by professors, the semifinals by district court judges, and the final round by circuit court judges. And it's neither prestigious nor competitive (until you get to the quarterfinals).


Hey I'm just going with what the school and upperclassmen sell me. :D

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:49 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Lile Moot Court begins in the fall of 2L and is judged by actual COA judges and is put on by the school. It's uber prestigious and very competitive.

It's mostly judged by 3Ls. The quarterfinals are judged by professors, the semifinals by district court judges, and the final round by circuit court judges. And it's neither prestigious nor competitive (until you get to the quarterfinals).

This. Also, they apparently tell you what position you're supposed to argue on each issue, even if it makes more sense for your side to argue the opposite issue, and then threaten to penalize/disqualify you for arguing what your side should argue. Or something like that.

Also, extramural moot court is not hard to get into but can get kind of crazy for 1Ls. I know of a couple 1Ls that signed up one year and were on a team together. There was also a 3L on the team who actually knew how to write briefs, but he dropped out after the team change deadline, because he advanced in Lile and wanted to focus on that. That left the two 1Ls to be on a team by thesmelves together. And most moot courts prohibit you from getting any outside help in writing a brief, and briefs were due before either of them were taught appellate brief writing in LRW.

Or something like that.

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soullesswonder
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby soullesswonder » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:52 pm

Worth mentioning: UVA is one of only a handful of law schools that allow 1Ls to join and compete with the traveling extramural moot court team. I've got a tournament coming up this spring, and while writing briefs for both LRW and Moot Court is kicking my ass, I'm really looking forward to oral arguments. Tryouts was a mock oral argument with canned (pre-written) briefs and a "closed universe" of 10-12 cases for research (you could do more but it wasn't required or expected).

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 2L taking questions

Postby jawsthegreat » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:56 pm

PSA: Don't do extramural moot court as a 1L, it will distract you at a time when you should be focusing on grades. Employers will not care that you did moot court, even if you did well...they will however care about that below median GPA.




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