UVA Law Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
Wahoo19
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Wahoo19 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:12 pm

VLR calls going out today.

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UVA2B
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby UVA2B » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:19 pm

Wahoo19 wrote:VLR calls going out today.


Cheers to those who get the call today. But more importantly, cheers to those of us who knew not to hold our breath!

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Nagster5
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Nagster5 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:20 pm

Wahoo19 wrote:VLR calls going out today.


Any idea of the grade-on cutoff this year?

asundialwatch
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby asundialwatch » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:25 pm

Only a small group of the managing board will know for sure right now. Law review members can generally ask if they're curious, but it's not publicly disclosed anymore. People posting can be a data point, but since they don't know if they grade-on or write-on or VA plan, you can't be sure. Generally mid to high 3.7s is around the cut-off.

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rhododactylos
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby rhododactylos » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:18 pm

asundialwatch wrote:Only a small group of the managing board will know for sure right now. Law review members can generally ask if they're curious, but it's not publicly disclosed anymore. People posting can be a data point, but since they don't know if they grade-on or write-on or VA plan, you can't be sure. Generally mid to high 3.7s is around the cut-off.


The current rule is that any VLR member may inquire about the GPA cutoff. Previously, they were required to post the cutoff so that the entire student body could know instead of having to rely on secondhand information through TLS. But then the 2015-16 managing board decided to blatantly ignore that rule because apparently they were so special that the rules didn't apply to them, which led the subsequent managing board to change the rule (not that I'm bitter or anything).
Last edited by rhododactylos on Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

thebrownnote
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby thebrownnote » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:46 am

Safe to say all the calls have gone out? I want to ask some friends, but I don't want to freak anybody out if more calls are coming tomorrow.

asundialwatch
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby asundialwatch » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:53 am

thebrownnote wrote:Safe to say all the calls have gone out? I want to ask some friends, but I don't want to freak anybody out if more calls are coming tomorrow.

Initial calls have gone out, but there are sometimes people who transfer to other schools who decline, so they may not all be done. That said, you're probably in the clear to ask. If you wanna be on the safe side, wait till they post the masthead.

asundialwatch
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby asundialwatch » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:55 am

rhododactylos wrote:
asundialwatch wrote:Only a small group of the managing board will know for sure right now. Law review members can generally ask if they're curious, but it's not publicly disclosed anymore. People posting can be a data point, but since they don't know if they grade-on or write-on or VA plan, you can't be sure. Generally mid to high 3.7s is around the cut-off.


The current rule is that any VLR member may inquire about the GPA cutoff. Previously, they were required to post the cutoff so that the entire student body could know instead of having to rely on secondhand information through TLS. But then the 2015 managing board decided to blatantly ignore that rule because apparently they were so special that the rules didn't apply to them, which led the subsequent managing board to change the rule (not that I'm bitter or anything).

Yeah, the bylaws are apparently more like guidelines.

theventriloquist
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby theventriloquist » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:41 am

How much time do you all spend studying? I did a Master's Program where I took medical school courses. I spent maybe 8-10 hours a day studying (outside of class), 7 days a week. I basically lived in the library, I hated it and I hated biology.

However, I enjoy humanities subjects a lot more (took courses in pol sci, psychology, history, etc and did very well on them).

in law school, I am willing to spend 8-10 hours a day, 7X a week, studying, as I did in the Master's Program. HOWEVER, I'd like to make good grades (as in all A's). I got a 177 LSAT.

I currently work 60-70 hours a week, in two jobs.

If I apply the same work ethic to law school, will I be above or below average (in terms of work ethic/time spent studying)?

THANK YOU

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anon sequitur
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby anon sequitur » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:50 am

I think if you legitimately spend 70 hours a week studying outside of class, you'd be in the top 10% of effort given among 1Ls. It might not translate to top 10% grades, but much more likely than not it'd mean well above median.

theventriloquist
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby theventriloquist » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:25 am

anon sequitur wrote:I think if you legitimately spend 70 hours a week studying outside of class, you'd be in the top 10% of effort given among 1Ls. It might not translate to top 10% grades, but much more likely than not it'd mean well above median.


Wow so 10% of the class spends 10 hours a day studying?

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anon sequitur
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby anon sequitur » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:29 am

theventriloquist wrote:
anon sequitur wrote:I think if you legitimately spend 70 hours a week studying outside of class, you'd be in the top 10% of effort given among 1Ls. It might not translate to top 10% grades, but much more likely than not it'd mean well above median.


Wow so 10% of the class spends 10 hours a day studying?


Doubtful. But those who do are most likely in the top 10% of time spent.

theventriloquist
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby theventriloquist » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:13 am

anon sequitur wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:
anon sequitur wrote:I think if you legitimately spend 70 hours a week studying outside of class, you'd be in the top 10% of effort given among 1Ls. It might not translate to top 10% grades, but much more likely than not it'd mean well above median.


Wow so 10% of the class spends 10 hours a day studying?


Doubtful. But those who do are most likely in the top 10% of time spent.


Ok thanks a lot. You see, I am strongly thinking about law school. I got a good LSAT, but low GPA b/c I took lots of biology courses, which I did very poorly in (long story...).

If in law school, I am absolutely willing to put in 70 hours a week studying. I have put in such hours before, and I work over 60 hours a week now. But b/c of the high tuition, and high lost income (I have a pretty high income currently), I want to make sure that I get good grades and a position in BigLaw NYC. That is my goal right their.

So I am thinking of law school, but still not sure. I'm going to apply T10 besides HYS, and see what I get. If I get into U-Penn, NYU, then I will definitely go. But I'm not sure about UVA and Michigan. I have read that if you get in the top 50% at those schools, then BigLaw NYC is open. But that is quite a risk.

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UVA2B
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:40 am

theventriloquist wrote:
anon sequitur wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:
anon sequitur wrote:I think if you legitimately spend 70 hours a week studying outside of class, you'd be in the top 10% of effort given among 1Ls. It might not translate to top 10% grades, but much more likely than not it'd mean well above median.


Wow so 10% of the class spends 10 hours a day studying?


Doubtful. But those who do are most likely in the top 10% of time spent.


Ok thanks a lot. You see, I am strongly thinking about law school. I got a good LSAT, but low GPA b/c I took lots of biology courses, which I did very poorly in (long story...).

If in law school, I am absolutely willing to put in 70 hours a week studying. I have put in such hours before, and I work over 60 hours a week now. But b/c of the high tuition, and high lost income (I have a pretty high income currently), I want to make sure that I get good grades and a position in BigLaw NYC. That is my goal right their.

So I am thinking of law school, but still not sure. I'm going to apply T10 besides HYS, and see what I get. If I get into U-Penn, NYU, then I will definitely go. But I'm not sure about UVA and Michigan. I have read that if you get in the top 50% at those schools, then BigLaw NYC is open. But that is quite a risk.


You should probably avoid spamming actually helpful threads with your non-sense, but regardless of the fact you're entirely tiresome...

If you go to any T13, you can probably get NYC Biglaw if you're semi-normal and bid smartly relative to your GPA at any school you attend in the T13.

Stop wasting the time of people who actually want to help. You've literally been inundated with information about your rudimentary concerns, and if you haven't been reinforced enough in constantly questioning whether your "forced by mom and dad" biology GPA will matter, whether your apparently top LSAT will get you into Harvard, and whether all of this will translate into a job at WLRK, the fault is on you because you don't have any concerns that haven't been addressed.

TL;DR: you're the worst, and you should stop posting if you don't have new questions that can't already be answered by typing in the search function vs. posting in threads that are meant to help people legitimately interested in life at UVA or high-jacking other threads.

Woohoo19
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Woohoo19 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:06 am

Longtime lurker, rising 2L at UVA that never took the time to make an account. As someone who probably studied ~40-50 hours a week, maximum, and still got a 3.65, I've always been a bit confused what those of you who study (or claim to study) for 70+ hours a week actually do with that extra studying. I probably spend 3-4 hours after class doing my reading and making case briefs, but then I'm done for the night. I figure I could probably add an extra productive/beneficial hour (maybe re-reading cases? Integrating notes into my outline earlier?) a day to my studying, but beyond that, I feel like I'd just be facing marginal returns in exchange for a less healthy mental state.

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UVA2B
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:36 am

Woohoo19 wrote:Longtime lurker, rising 2L at UVA that never took the time to make an account. As someone who probably studied ~40-50 hours a week, maximum, and still got a 3.65, I've always been a bit confused what those of you who study (or claim to study) for 70+ hours a week actually do with that extra studying. I probably spend 3-4 hours after class doing my reading and making case briefs, but then I'm done for the night. I figure I could probably add an extra productive/beneficial hour (maybe re-reading cases? Integrating notes into my outline earlier?) a day to my studying, but beyond that, I feel like I'd just be facing marginal returns in exchange for a less healthy mental state.


Congrats on the great GPA, but this is really just another wheel in the tautological "it worked for me, so this must be what works" machine that is law school. Some people do well during 1L doing exactly what you did. And some struggle despite doing exactly what you did. Others will read cases multiple times, synthesize cases early and often, type notes from class immediately following the class, and do other things they see as beneficial for their understanding of the material. For some of those, it'll work out great. For others, they'll end up struggling.

Law school is a game that no one really knows how to play going into it. Everyone will adopt different rules, different styles, and different schedules in their approach. It's impossible to look back at 1L year and surmise the stuff that worked well and what didn't. There are generally accepted principles, but even those are at minimum under dispute because learning styles differ and people can't try multiple approaches to 1L year prior to coming out of it.

So while you can't imagine someone putting in serious extra effort to achieve an outcome in law school, do you at least recognize that others could do extra work and reach a similar level of success, or alternatively, it would've been at least possible that your approach could end badly? Because despite the fact that the results worked out for you, for many well-intentioned UVA students (and law students everywhere), it won't work out as well. They will do everything they thought necessary to be successful, and for some confluence of factors, it didn't work out that way.

It's really easy to counterfactually use what you did that worked to question why everyone doesn't do it that way, but if you ended up with a 3.2 vice a 3.65, would you still question why people put in that many extra hours?

Woohoo19
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby Woohoo19 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:42 am

I definitely get that -- and by no means am I saying that my system will work for everyone, sometimes I'm surprised that it worked for me. I'm just curious what people do with the extra time once they've read the cases and taken notes on the cases -- I guess the answer is re-read cases, synthesize those cases and type up class notes.

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UVA2B
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:41 am

Woohoo19 wrote:I definitely get that -- and by no means am I saying that my system will work for everyone, sometimes I'm surprised that it worked for me. I'm just curious what people do with the extra time once they've read the cases and taken notes on the cases -- I guess the answer is re-read cases, synthesize those cases and type up class notes.


Yeah, I can't say those types of things are dispositive of what people do, I was just listing some of the things I've seen people do in dealing with law school studying. I definitely can't see putting in 70 hour weeks outside of possibly during finals, but I also recognized what you did fairly early on: there is a point of diminishing returns for everyone, but that point probably varies based on the personality, learning style, and acceptance of the reality that you only have so much control over what your grades will be.

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jaekeem
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby jaekeem » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:04 pm

Woohoo19 wrote:I definitely get that -- and by no means am I saying that my system will work for everyone, sometimes I'm surprised that it worked for me. I'm just curious what people do with the extra time once they've read the cases and taken notes on the cases -- I guess the answer is re-read cases, synthesize those cases and type up class notes.

I think most just read supps and work on their outlines -- or just take longer to read and understand the base material.

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5ky
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby 5ky » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:08 pm

Woohoo19 wrote:I definitely get that -- and by no means am I saying that my system will work for everyone, sometimes I'm surprised that it worked for me. I'm just curious what people do with the extra time once they've read the cases and taken notes on the cases -- I guess the answer is re-read cases, synthesize those cases and type up class notes.


the number one thing would probably be careful reading and taking the time to really digest and analyze the case notes following the cases. i never really did that but i know some people who did. that takes a lot of time, especially if you then go and look at additional summaries of any cases referenced in the case notes.

its definitely overkill but it's one way to really master the material and concepts

gilmoregirlrevival
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Postby gilmoregirlrevival » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:01 pm

...
Last edited by gilmoregirlrevival on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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OtterLaw
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby OtterLaw » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:05 am

Wahoo19 wrote:VLR calls going out today.


Oh man, I missed this post. Did they all go out that day or is it a gradual process?

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jaekeem
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby jaekeem » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:29 pm

OtterLaw wrote:
Wahoo19 wrote:VLR calls going out today.


Oh man, I missed this post. Did they all go out that day or is it a gradual process?

The former I think, barring them having to make up for transfers and the like.

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SomeElleWoodsJoke
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby SomeElleWoodsJoke » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:03 pm

I know it won't be conclusive, but if we have any new VLR members with like below a 3.8, would you toss out your GPAs? If invites are done (yes, people transfer but I refuse to understand it) I want to know just how close I was :roll:

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LawMan16
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Re: UVA Law Students Taking Questions

Postby LawMan16 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:32 pm

I've listed the professors the incoming 1Ls will have by section below. Would anyone care to opine who hit the lottery/should drop out now?

Section: CivPro/Contracts/Crim/Torts/LRW
A: Collins/Verkerke/Bonnie/Armacost/Fore
B: Collins/Kordana/Brown/Kendrick/Buck
C: Woolhandler/Mahoney/Brown/Stauss/Buck
D: Mitchell/Hynes/Harmon/Barzun/Buck
E: Mitchell/Johnson/Jeffries/Kendrick/Stewart
F: Bamzai/Hynes/Jeffries/Armacost/Fore
G: Woolhandler/Cohen/Bonnie/Abraham/Stewart
H: Spencer/Geis/Harmon/Johnston/Buck
I: Rutherglen/Mahoney/Ferzan/Johnston/Fore
J: Heytens/Geis/Ferzan/Abraham/Stewart

For ease of reference, here's an image version:
http://imgur.com/wZCI98d

Any thoughts are very much appreciated!




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