Florida Coastal School of Law

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nealric
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby nealric » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:02 pm

Tryouts are held toward the end of the semester — right around when final exams are scheduled.

“We call that Hell Week,” Weeks said. “It definitely weeds out a few prospects because it’s so hectic.”

About 10 percent of those who try out are selected. The honor board typically hand-picks two to four members to send to each competition.


If anybody ever wonders why T4 schools beat Harvard in moot court, that is exactly why. FCL has "hell week" to choose moot court members. At Harvard, the attitude is: "yeah, I guess you can do moot court if you feel like it".

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set88
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby set88 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:30 am

Does anyone actually go to this school?

I think the pre-app scholarship is pretty common.

TTTTransfer
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby TTTTransfer » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:46 pm

Transferred out of Coastal, and I found this post from a Coastal grad to be a very accurate reflection of life there. READ IT BEFORE GOING TO FLORIDA COASTAL.
------------------

Here is a breakdown of the costs -
Total cost of attendance for 1 year: $54,890
Total cost of attendance for 3 years: $164,670

This price assumes a couple of things: 1) you take out the full loan amount for cost of living expenses (which most students do), and 2) you have no scholarship. Most people are offered a $10k scholarship, requiring maintenance of a 3.0 GPA. But as I said in my earlier post, 80% or more of students lose their scholarships after the first year due to the low curve.

As far as in-school employment/internship opportunities, the career services department honestly works harder than the departments at other schools. They have lots of resume workshops and really push students towards networking and getting involved in the legal community in which the individual student is interested in practicing. However, that being said, there are virtually no job postings or on-campus interviews at Coastal. And the three or four employers that actually come on campus only interview people in the top 10% of their class who participate in either Moot Court or Law Review. If you are outside top 10% and no MC/LR, then you get NO on-campus interviews. (however, the public defender's office does interview 3Ls, but they only interview top 20%) And even if you are in top 10% with MC/LR (like I was), that still means that you are competing against 40 or so people for 1 or 2 job positions. Basically, you have no chance in hell at getting a job through the school. This means you have to send out letters to employers, go to bar functions to meet local attorneys, and basically whore yourself in any other way you can to get a job. Out of my 1L section of about 75 people, I knew ONE other person besides myself that had a paying summer job, and mine was only a $10/hr part-time gig.

People at Coastal (faculty, career services, etc.) will readily blame the economy for the lack of job prospects, which is unfortunate because this makes a lot of people think that supplementing their education with an MBA or LLM post-graduation is a good idea, because, as their thinking goes, the economy will be better after that program is finished and they will also be more marketable with an extra distinguishing degree. However, this is sadly mistaken, and is an error of judgment as well as a logical fallacy, for two reasons: 1) pre-recession economic conditions were artificially inflated, and we are unlikely to see an economy like that for many years to come (if ever), and 2) an MBA/LLM/PhD does not give a student an edge over any other law school graduate - only grades and experience can do that. LLMs are just for law schools to further milk more federal loan money out of insecure students (except for maybe Taxation LLMs at Georgetown/NYU).

And as far as parlaying a JD into another field, such as business (like so many think makes complete sense), students are also in for a rude awakening. JDs qualify you to practice law; they do not qualify you to sell bonds or other securities, they do not qualify you to be a CEO/CFO/COO, they do not make you suddenly a more savvy business person, and neither do they make you more attractive for any other entry-level business positions; what a JD does, actually, is make non-lawyers afraid to hire you, because 1) you know the law and they think you would be more likely to sue them for employment discrimination, etc., and 2) they think you will leave the non-legal position as soon as a legal job prospect opens up, and so they do not want to waste time and money training you. Last, some people think a JD qualifies you to teach, which it does - if you are at the very top of your class at a top law school. A Tier 3/4 grad can teach community college classes as an adjunct, but that's about it. The foregoing is the truth about a Juris Doctor - if you aren't interested in practicing law in some capacity, don't get one - it's a waste.

Getting back to Coastal, the internships and clinics are pretty nice. The school regularly places students in U.S. Attorney's office, DCA Courts, County and Circuit Courts, and even a few students intern with the Florida Supreme Court. However, these are non-paid, credit bearing opportunities (i.e., you get 6-12 credit hours and thus pay your normal tuition for working 20-40 hrs./week). The clinics are on-site at the school and you basically act as a pro bono attorney for real clients - as I understand it, you actually go to court for them, file motions, etc., just like a real attorney. It's great experience, but works like the other internships, meaning you pay for it and get credit towards graduation.

I really do not intend to paint Coastal as a crappy school, and I also do not really intend to discourage anyone from practicing law as a profession if it is something you KNOW you want to do. But the reality of law school and the legal profession is a far cry from what it is generally conceived to be, and I feel like I am in a position to warn/educate possible future law students who may end up bitter and hating their career choice.

Law school, no matter where you go, is full of driven, incredibly smart, incredibly competitive people. And because of the inherent competition over grades, it is more stressful than you can imagine, and the work loads really are extremely oppressive. I did really well, but I had absolutely NO life my first year, and rarely even talked to family or friends on the telephone. To do well, you really have to make sacrifices, and if you don't, without a God-given natural talent for acing exams, you'll wind up with mediocre grades and no job prospects. And considering that most law loans are financed at around 6% interest, the repayment is like a substantial mortgage once you graduate (I'm talking more than $1k/mo for 30 yrs, possibly close to $2k+/month for 10 yrs depending on which repayment plan you choose).

The legal profession is ruthlessly competitive at every level, and so PLEASE do not make the mistake of deluding yourself into thinking that there is some exception that you will be able to squeeze into to make law school worth going. Knowing what I know now, I would only advise someone to go to law school if all three of the following conditions were met: 1) you can go without incurring more than around $50k in debt, 2) you go to a tier 1 school, AND 3) you really, really, really want to be a lawyer (and you have actually worked in the legal field in some capacity so you know some of what you're getting into).

The bottom line is this: Florida Coastal is a for-profit law school owned by a corporation (Infilaw) which owns two other tier 4 law schools (Phoenix and Charlotte), and the degrees Coastal cranks out every year largely only benefit the shareholders of Infilaw. And so think long and hard before purchasing your $100k, over-sized piece of embossed paper from a profit-driven entity that will provide you with little more than an over-inflated ego in an over-crowded job market.

But hey, if you decide to go, at least there's lot of free pizza and over-priced soup.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby GATORTIM » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:09 pm

where did you ttt-transfer to?

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JDO
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby JDO » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:33 pm

GATORTIM wrote:where did you ttt-transfer to?

T-t-today junior. Also, interested in this question, and more of his experience...

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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby TTTTransfer » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:16 pm

FSU or UF. And it was the best decision of my life.

1. There are no OCIs or other job postings at Coastal. They actually had an OCI for a full-time position selling insurance (which doesn't even require a college degree, FYI) recently, which shows you what you can expect.

2. Around 20% of the entering 1L class (which is on track to be about 700 students this fall) fails out every year, with roughly 85% of student losing their scholarship.

3. Judges and lawyers think the school is an absolute joke and will not hire grads who aren't in the top 10% with Moot Court and/or Law Review. Actually heard a judge making a joke about the school this past weekend. (I am not even joking, unfortunately)

4. The atmosphere is brutally competitive and bitter; everyone goes there to transfer, and almost no one gets to. And most know that no one takes their "J.D." seriously. The school is full of washed up jocks and ex-frat boys that party like it's 1999 and act like entitled douche bags.

5. Faculty and staff are super nice and very helpful, and the facilities are extremely nice, but it's absolutely career suicide to graduate from there.

Caveat emptor.
Last edited by TTTTransfer on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:18 pm

Why not just say which one?

TTTTransfer
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby TTTTransfer » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:47 pm

Why not just post your address and phone number?

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momo_08
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby momo_08 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:48 pm

ChrisC wrote:Florida Coastal represents everything wrong with the direction the legal field is heading in. It represents the recklessness with which the ABA accredits and approves schools and the disregard it has for the integrity of the profession. It does, however, further this new and exciting trend of enabling anyone with a 2.5 GPA and a 25th percentile LSAT to become at attorney. Remember when your kindergarten teacher told you "everyone's a winner?" Well, the ABA is making good on that promise.


/Rant


You described it perfectly

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GATORTIM
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby GATORTIM » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:12 pm

TTTTransfer wrote:Why not just post your address and phone number?


and PIN

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MtnDude
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby MtnDude » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:59 am

GATORTIM wrote:
TTTTransfer wrote:Why not just post your address and phone number?


and PIN


And Picture

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SAE
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby SAE » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:16 am

Image

TTTTransfer
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Feb 2010 bar results

Postby TTTTransfer » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:06 pm

February bar results: Florida Coastal finished 10th out of 11 schools in Florida. Only about 60% passed.

And this is very ironic because Coastal makes almost all of the subjects on the multi-state portion of the bar exam mandatory course requirements.

cytmguth
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby cytmguth » Sun May 23, 2010 9:55 am

Interesting, isn't it, that Florida Coastal has had several Harvard grads teach there. I guess they were just money grubbing charlatans.

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trialjunky
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby trialjunky » Sun May 23, 2010 12:45 pm

cytmguth wrote:Interesting, isn't it, that Florida Coastal has had several Harvard grads teach there. I guess they were just money grubbing charlatans.



What a waste for your first post

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Grizz
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby Grizz » Sun May 23, 2010 1:31 pm

cytmguth wrote:Interesting, isn't it, that Florida Coastal has had several Harvard grads teach there. I guess they were just money grubbing charlatans.



Pretty much every school has HYS grads on staff. Nothing special.

laura13
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby laura13 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:15 pm

KD 03 wrote:Those who want to look at moot court success as an indicator of how good a law school is deserve to go to a school like FGC. The attrition rate alone should raise a question or two. If you really want to base a school on something besides numbers read up on their law journals and law reviews. The fact that the Harvard law review is mentioned in nearly half of my legal search results to FGC's 0 means something. FGC is in a long line of terrible schools in the state that need to be shut down.


Ever hear of politics? Some of the lesser known schools also offer a "better bang for your buck". I don't know about FSCL but to discredit a school's education based solely on their "research abilities" seems rather limited.

laura13
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby laura13 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:25 pm

magicman wrote:
karmicgruve wrote:
ChrisC wrote:Florida Coastal represents everything wrong with the direction the legal field is heading in. It represents the recklessness with which the ABA accredits and approves schools and the disregard it has for the integrity of the profession. It does, however, further this new and exciting trend of enabling anyone with a 2.5 GPA and a 25th percentile LSAT to become at attorney. Remember when your kindergarten teacher told you "everyone's a winner?" Well, the ABA is making good on that promise.


/Rant


Okay FCL asside, LSAT scores and GPA don't guarantee success in law school and success in law school doesn't guarantee success as an attorney. You can be a book smart genius and graduate with honors but if you have no personality and zero interpersonal skills, you're not going to impress anyone in the real world. I have friends with learning disablities that went on to successful legal practices despit shitty grades and way subpar lsat scores. They simply knew how to network, worked diligently to market themsleves and worked at ways to counter the effects their dixlexia and ADHD had on their focus and concentration. Truth be told I've had conversations with 170+ lsat 4.0 "geniuses" that were painful to my ears.

I had a low gpa because of financial hardships in my first two years. I paid the rent and put food on the table for my family. You can't even begin to imagine how tough it can be to even stay awake and crack open a texy book when you just finished a 10 hour shift. I dropped out and went back and pulled all A's and a B when i returned to complete my 25 remaining classes. SO despite a 2.84 GPA I had a near 4.0 when i returned. THAT is far more indicative of my true potential to earn good marks in school. I find it insulting for you to insinuate that people with low GPAS are not entitled to gain admittance to LAw School. I'm sure there are some 25th percentile GPA students out there that would fuck you up in court. I remember from Kindergarten that we should never judge a book by its cover..........



Your scenario is the exception, not the rule. I would venture to say that most students with C averages (at least in college) didn't get them for any other reason than that they were mediocre students. Granted, I agree that the an LSAT score might not be very indicative of a students ability, but judging a students ability based on their four year body of work as it is reflected in their GPA is hardly judging a book by its cover. A low test score is understandable, it's a one shot deal, and there are plenty of reasons a perfectly smart person might underperform. But a low GPA in most cases would indicate that a person consistently underperfomed. Also, you must've done absolutely fucking horrible your first 2 years to complete 75 credits of an undergraduate program with a near 4.0 and still only end with a 2.84. How the hell did they even let you back for a second year after a first year that must've been an abysmal failure? Yeah, working your way through school is hard, but you're not the only one that's ever had to do it. As someone who has, I can tell you working and maintaining a high GPA is doable, if you don't have your head up your ass. If you can't find it in you to get a cup of coffee and open a textbook after a long shift, there's this thing called student loans, you can use them in lieu of working. If you don't want to carry the debt load like everyone else in this country, then go work on an assembly line.
magicman wrote:person consistently underperfomed. Also, you must've done absolutely fucking horrible your first 2 years to complete 75 credits of an undergraduate program with a near 4.0 and still only end with a 2.84. How the hell did they even let you back for a second year after a first year that must've been an abysmal failure? Yeah, working your way through school is hard, but you're not the only one that's ever had to do it. As someone who has, I can tell you working and maintaining a high GPA is doable, if you don't have your head up your ass. If you can't find it in you to get a cup of coffee and open a textbook after a long shift, there's this thing called student loans, you can use them in lieu of working. If you don't want to carry the debt load like everyone else in this country, then go work on an assembly line.
[/quote]
Perhaps you should take into account that some of us graduated from universities with significantly more difficult curriculums in more challenging majors than others. Do you plan on arguing the merits of the person's statements or just trying to discredit them by referring to them as a "douche"? One's grades are not always indicative of intelligence as you seem to have shown with that emotional rant. Sounds like you don't want the increased numbers of competition to me.

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Grizz
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:54 am

laura13 wrote:
KD 03 wrote:Those who want to look at moot court success as an indicator of how good a law school is deserve to go to a school like FGC. The attrition rate alone should raise a question or two. If you really want to base a school on something besides numbers read up on their law journals and law reviews. The fact that the Harvard law review is mentioned in nearly half of my legal search results to FGC's 0 means something. FGC is in a long line of terrible schools in the state that need to be shut down.


Ever hear of politics? Some of the lesser known schools also offer a "better bang for your buck". I don't know about FSCL but to discredit a school's education based solely on their "research abilities" seems rather limited.


Better band than FL Coastal, Barry, Nova, etc., but that isn't saying much.

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Grizz
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:56 am

laura13 wrote:[strike]Perhaps you should take into account that some of us graduated from universities with significantly more difficult curriculums in more challenging majors than others. Do you plan on arguing the merits of the person's statements or just trying to discredit them by referring to them as a "douche"? One's grades are not always indicative of intelligence as you seem to have shown with that emotional rant. Sounds like you don't want the increased numbers of competition to me.[/strike]


Image

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:13 am

laura13 wrote:Perhaps you should take into account that some of us graduated from universities with significantly more difficult curriculums in more challenging majors than others. Do you plan on arguing the merits of the person's statements or just trying to discredit them by referring to them as a "douche"? One's grades are not always indicative of intelligence as you seem to have shown with that emotional rant. Sounds like you don't want the increased numbers of competition to me.


Let me guess, you are a 1L at Florida Coastal?

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Grizz
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:22 am

delBarco wrote:
laura13 wrote:Perhaps you should take into account that some of us graduated from universities with significantly more difficult curriculums in more challenging majors than others. Do you plan on arguing the merits of the person's statements or just trying to discredit them by referring to them as a "douche"? One's grades are not always indicative of intelligence as you seem to have shown with that emotional rant. Sounds like you don't want the increased numbers of competition to me.


Let me guess, you are a 1L at Florida Coastal?


If so, how many 2Ls landed SA positions? How many of your classmates have dropped out?

TTTTransfer
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby TTTTransfer » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:01 am

I don't know of any Harvard J.D. grads teaching at Coastal. There's one guy, Pimentel, who did his third year as a visiting student at Harvard (a fact that is promulgated like gospel around Coastal; see http://fcsl.edu/user/20), but last time I checked, there were no HYS grads teaching at Coastal. Not a single one.

The unfortunate truth is that Coastal does not have a good reputation anywhere in Florida. The job market is extremely over-saturated, and the few employers that are hiring want UF, FSU, or other schools with a national reputation on the resumes of their new associates.

For example, my friends at Coastal told me that last fall, there were only 3 or 4 on campus interviews at Coastal, and only top 10% with law review and/or moot court were eligible to apply for the interviews. When asked why there were so few, FCSL's career services department blamed the economy for the lack of interested employers. However, at the school I transferred to, there were almost 50 employers recruiting on-campus - employers that actually hired people. It's not the economy - it's the school's reputation.

Going to Florida Coastal is a terrible idea unless someone in your family is guaranteeing you a job, or your entire legal education is paid for (and that does not count the scholarship from Coastal that you have an 85% chance of losing). Otherwise, you will absolutely be making a TERRIBLE life choice by attending Coastal.

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edisongrl
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby edisongrl » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:44 pm

MtnDude wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
TTTTransfer wrote:Why not just post your address and phone number?


and PIN


And Picture


He did....and it's cheezy as hell.

TTTTransfer
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Re: Florida Coastal School of Law

Postby TTTTransfer » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:18 am

Perfect example why one should NOT attend Florida Coastal...

I received a forwarded message from Coastal's career services department this past week with some upcoming job opportunities. There were two jobs listed...

1) Attorney for civil litigation firm in Miami (must be an attorney; this was not for students). Pay: $400/wk. Ladies and gentleman, in any type of litigation, you will work a MINIMUM of 50 hrs week, but probably closer to 60; that means the pay for this job probably lower than minimum wage. And keep in mind, $400 is pre-tax, so you would likely bring home about $350. You would HAVE to have a second job to be able to eat. Working 60 hours, after taxes, you make about $5.80/hr. as an attorney.

2) Financial Consultant. Pay: not disclosed. This is an OCI, and the firm is interviewing everyone from 1Ls to grads for a sales position. They call the position a "consultant," but this is just a sales job, based on commission. Did some investigation, and it's a crap firm with a high turnover.

From what I heard, Coastal only had one or two OCIs from small, local firms, and everyone knows that the Foley and Lardner OCI is just a hoax. I interviewed with them and was told that they have never hired a single summer from Coastal, despite having done OCIs there for like 5+ years. (apparently the hiring partner and career services dept. head are friends...)

I really wish I were making all of this up.




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