Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
Miranda 18
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Miranda 18 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:50 pm

Did any of you ED to penn? If so do you think that had a chance in you being admitted? And what made you pick Penn out of the other T14 schools?

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:05 pm

Miranda 18 wrote:Did any of you ED to penn? If so do you think that had a chance in you being admitted? And what made you pick Penn out of the other T14 schools?

I didn't ED.

My other t-14 options were Mich, G'town, Cornell, and Northwestern. Out of those, G'town dicked me around quoting me a financial aid figure, so they were out. Cornell is in the Arctic, so they were out. Northwestern offered me more money than Penn and Mich basically matched Penn's offer. I chose Penn above them because I liked Philadelphia better than Chicago, and I didn't want to live in a college town like Ann Arbor. In sum, I chose Penn because Philadelphia is an awesome town.

Hope this helps.

Action Jackson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Action Jackson » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:20 pm

Miranda 18 wrote:Did any of you ED to penn? If so do you think that had a chance in you being admitted? And what made you pick Penn out of the other T14 schools?

I did. I should have been able to get in without it, though. I chose Penn because I didn't want to pay to go to school in NYC or Chicago, and was confident I couldn't get into HYS. I like Penn a lot, but in hindsight I would have spent more time in Philly before moving here (don't love the town), and I probably wouldn't have stopped taking the LSAT until I could have gotten into HYS, then gone to HYS. Job market turned out nastier than I thought.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:22 pm

Miranda 18 wrote:Did any of you ED to penn? If so do you think that had a chance in you being admitted? And what made you pick Penn out of the other T14 schools?


No, I didn't ED.

Yes, I thought I had a decent chance of being admitted (I did apply late in the cycle--early January)

I was in at Cornell, Duke, & UVA....Penn gave me more $ and I just liked the feel better then the others + I didn't want to take a year off between Undergrad and LS to reapply. Both NYU and Mich called when I was on their W/L and I told them I need Penn money to go their respective schools and was shortly thereafter rejected from both Waitlists .

sperry
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby sperry » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:50 pm

Miranda 18 wrote:Did any of you ED to penn? If so do you think that had a chance in you being admitted? And what made you pick Penn out of the other T14 schools?



I didn't do ED. Applied to Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Duke, Georgetown. Ding at Harvard, waitlist-ding at Columbia, in at Penn, and $$ at Duke/ Georgetown. I did some more research and saw that Penn had better placement and offered me the best choice out of the 3 for a jerb. Went to Penn, and have no job lol.


Anyway, I like the students at Penn a lot. Out of a section of 85 or so, there were only a handful of d-bags, and most people were really down to earth and nice. Professors were very hit or miss. Philadelphia kind of sucks, but it's no worse than it's peer schools' locations (Berkeley, Durham, Charlottesville).

Anyway, at the end of the process I would say take $$$ at another T14 over nothing at Penn. Penn may offer slightly better placement, but it's certainly not a guarantee.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:07 pm

sperry wrote:Philadelphia kind of sucks

Lies!

Action Jackson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Action Jackson » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:36 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
sperry wrote:Philadelphia kind of sucks

Lies!

Center City and Old Town are awesome. University City and everything else, not so much.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:52 pm

Action Jackson wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
sperry wrote:Philadelphia kind of sucks

Lies!

Center City and Old Town are awesome. University City and everything else, not so much.

Old Town sucks. South Philly and West Philly are where it's at :mrgreen:

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:54 pm

^ Whats the deal with the Northern Liberties? Cool place to go?

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:30 pm

Veyron wrote:^ Whats the deal with the Northern Liberties? Cool place to go?

It's okay. It's populated by people who skate the ever-thinner line between hipster and yuppie. There are some neat places there, but there are also the kind of restaurants that charge you extra if you order ice in your bourbon.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:41 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
Veyron wrote:^ Whats the deal with the Northern Liberties? Cool place to go?

It's okay. It's populated by people who skate the ever-thinner line between hipster and yuppie. There are some neat places there, but there are also the kind of restaurants that charge you extra if you order ice in your bourbon.


+1

Miranda 18
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Miranda 18 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:28 pm

sperry wrote:
Miranda 18 wrote:Did any of you ED to penn? If so do you think that had a chance in you being admitted? And what made you pick Penn out of the other T14 schools?



I didn't do ED. Applied to Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Duke, Georgetown. Ding at Harvard, waitlist-ding at Columbia, in at Penn, and $$ at Duke/ Georgetown. I did some more research and saw that Penn had better placement and offered me the best choice out of the 3 for a jerb. Went to Penn, and have no job lol.


Anyway, I like the students at Penn a lot. Out of a section of 85 or so, there were only a handful of d-bags, and most people were really down to earth and nice. Professors were very hit or miss. Philadelphia kind of sucks, but it's no worse than it's peer schools' locations (Berkeley, Durham, Charlottesville).

Anyway, at the end of the process I would say take $$$ at another T14 over nothing at Penn. Penn may offer slightly better placement, but it's certainly not a guarantee.



Thanks....your comments are helpful. May I ask where your originally from? From a bigger and better city? Or do you just not like Philly at all? I've been told Philly is not that great but looking at all the OCI interviews and job opportunities that Penn seems to offer during this economy it seems to be one of the best options.

Has career services been helpful at all? Or do you feel as though you are on your own on the job search?

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:35 pm

Miranda 18 wrote:
sperry wrote:
Miranda 18 wrote:Did any of you ED to penn? If so do you think that had a chance in you being admitted? And what made you pick Penn out of the other T14 schools?



I didn't do ED. Applied to Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Duke, Georgetown. Ding at Harvard, waitlist-ding at Columbia, in at Penn, and $$ at Duke/ Georgetown. I did some more research and saw that Penn had better placement and offered me the best choice out of the 3 for a jerb. Went to Penn, and have no job lol.


Anyway, I like the students at Penn a lot. Out of a section of 85 or so, there were only a handful of d-bags, and most people were really down to earth and nice. Professors were very hit or miss. Philadelphia kind of sucks, but it's no worse than it's peer schools' locations (Berkeley, Durham, Charlottesville).

Anyway, at the end of the process I would say take $$$ at another T14 over nothing at Penn. Penn may offer slightly better placement, but it's certainly not a guarantee.



Thanks....your comments are helpful. May I ask where your originally from? From a bigger and better city? Or do you just not like Philly at all? I've been told Philly is not that great but looking at all the OCI interviews and job opportunities that Penn seems to offer during this economy it seems to be one of the best options.


Has career services been helpful at all? Or do you feel as though you are on your own on the job search?


I don’t know if you intended this question generally but I just moved here from a similarly sized city far away. Philly is definitely my #2 favorite city on the east coast (after NYC of course). It’s a pretty cool up and coming town.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:49 am

Miranda 18 wrote:Thanks....your comments are helpful. May I ask where your originally from? From a bigger and better city? Or do you just not like Philly at all? I've been told Philly is not that great but looking at all the OCI interviews and job opportunities that Penn seems to offer during this economy it seems to be one of the best options.

Has career services been helpful at all? Or do you feel as though you are on your own on the job search?

I'm from Kentucky originally. Whoever told you that Philly was an easy place to get a job was lying (well, either that or I'm totally incompetent, and I prefer to believe the former). Career services is helpful in that they give you advice, but there's not all that much else they can do; it's just flat out hard to get a job these days.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:51 pm

johnnyutah wrote:I'm from Kentucky originally. Whoever told you that Philly was an easy place to get a job was lying (well, either that or I'm totally incompetent, and I prefer to believe the former). Career services is helpful in that they give you advice, but there's not all that much else they can do; it's just flat out hard to get a job these days.


How about non-firm legal jobs, hows the market for that? I would imagine there are more options around the city/region if you are not limiting yourself to big law/firm jobs. How's career services for other kind of jobs outside of OCI?

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:00 pm

r6_philly wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:I'm from Kentucky originally. Whoever told you that Philly was an easy place to get a job was lying (well, either that or I'm totally incompetent, and I prefer to believe the former). Career services is helpful in that they give you advice, but there's not all that much else they can do; it's just flat out hard to get a job these days.


How about non-firm legal jobs, hows the market for that? I would imagine there are more options around the city/region if you are not limiting yourself to big law/firm jobs. How's career services for other kind of jobs outside of OCI?

Those are the jobs I most want, actually (court time is a priority for me). The problem is that right now, the Philly PD has a hiring freeze on because of budget constraints. So does basically all of Camden's government. That really cuts down on the non-firm work jobs out there and raises competition for what's left. I've been applying for stuff in MontCo, DelCo, and Chester, though; I've heard that those places are in a better financial position right now.

As far as PI work goes, Philly had a lot, but it's difficult to break in to unless you get sponsored for a fellowship. No public interest organization in the Philly area is going to straight up hire anyone right out of law school, so you have to find a way to fund yourself. It's possible, but it takes some doing.

Career services is pretty good for that kind of work. Penn generally is geared toward placing students in BigLaw, because that's what most people want. An advantage of that, though, if that if you're interested in being a Defender of some kind of PI attorney, you can get a lot of extra attention from the people in career services that specialize in that stuff. One guy - Eric McKinley - was a Delaware Valley area PD for years before he worked at Penn, and he is a good resource for local government jobs around here. He can be kind of...abrupt, and he isn't well liked among students, but he's definitely good for that kind of thing.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:25 pm

Do you think Penn students have a leg up on students from other schools when it comes to PI jobs?

Do you think the legal market in Philly is going to improve in the next 3 years? I am not really aiming for big law but still would like to know the kind of climate I would be in upon graduation.

I get a sense that other public sector jobs are not quite as bad as a year ago but I didn't know legal positions are still hard to find. Good luck with your search hope you get what you desire.

BTW is career services for law school seperate from the rest of the university? Can I get detailed stats on employment from them? I really want to know how bad it is.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:19 pm

r6_philly wrote:Do you think Penn students have a leg up on students from other schools when it comes to PI jobs?

It think it depends on the PI job. If you want to work for the ACLU some of the more impact-litigation oriented outfits in Philadelphia, like the Women's Law Project, I think it absolutely gives you a leg up. I think it can actually be a leg down for some of the less direct services groups, though. They tend to be dominated by Temple grads, and Penn students have somewhat of a local reputation 1) for not staying in Philly very long and 2) for being high-maintenance.

r6_philly wrote:Do you think the legal market in Philly is going to improve in the next 3 years? I am not really aiming for big law but still would like to know the kind of climate I would be in upon graduation.

I sure hope it does, but I don't think anyone really knows.

r6_philly wrote:I get a sense that other public sector jobs are not quite as bad as a year ago but I didn't know legal positions are still hard to find. Good luck with your search hope you get what you desire.

Thanks, man! I need it.

r6_philly wrote:BTW is career services for law school seperate from the rest of the university? Can I get detailed stats on employment from them? I really want to know how bad it is.

Career services is part of the law school and is separate from the rest of the university. I bet they will send you stats if you contact them, but, as a general rule, take all law school self-reported numbers with a grain of salt.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:23 pm

3Ls and more resourceful 2Ls,
I am looking for outlines for:

Corporations (Wachter)
Analytical Methods in the Law (Abrams)
Corporate Lawyering (Basri)
Criminal Procedure: Prosecution and Adjudication (Bibas)

Thanks for your help! :D

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:35 pm

Thanks for all the info!

I am going to come and check out one of the classes in the morning, what would you recommend? I will visit the career services office while I am at it.

It's funny how the law school is so seperate from the rest of the university (you think you are all better don't you lol). :lol:

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:40 pm

r6_philly wrote:Thanks for all the info!

I am going to come and check out one of the classes in the morning, what would you recommend? I will visit the career services office while I am at it.

It's funny how the law school is so seperate from the rest of the university (you think you are all better don't you lol). :lol:

Go to Professor Wolff's Civil Procedure class, if you can. He teaches very much in the traditional law school style, with lots of Socratic method. You a Penn undergrad?

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:50 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Thanks for all the info!

I am going to come and check out one of the classes in the morning, what would you recommend? I will visit the career services office while I am at it.

It's funny how the law school is so seperate from the rest of the university (you think you are all better don't you lol). :lol:

Go to Professor Wolff's Civil Procedure class, if you can. He teaches very much in the traditional law school style, with lots of Socratic method. You a Penn undergrad?


Thanks for the pointer, I will look him up. I am at Fels for the MGA. Missing out on the dual degree benefits but I like the extra classes (not the extra money lol).

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kurla88
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby kurla88 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:41 pm

Anyone sit in on "Analytical Methods in the Law" with Abrams today? Or has taken it a previous year? I'm pondering taking it just because there is NOTHING OPEN.

sperry
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby sperry » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:48 pm

How many hours is everyone taking? I'm in 12, debating whether I should add another class, but I think I'd rather just see if I can do really well in the ones Im in now. Plus it's 4 classes, so it doesn't look like I'm slacking.

CCA
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby CCA » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:51 pm

Has anyone taken or heard about Practice of Law with Specter? I was looking for an extra 2-credit class without too much work, and it was that or sports law.

I'm doing 14 credits plus a journal - I think that's about average.




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