Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
AdmitMePls
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby AdmitMePls » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:46 pm

on the Orientation calendar it says the book sale is this Thursday evening. but thanks for the heads up about finding new editions!

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kurla88
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby kurla88 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:53 pm

AdmitMePls wrote:on the Orientation calendar it says the book sale is this Thursday evening. but thanks for the heads up about finding new editions!


Oh hmm, maybe they moved it up from last year!

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:58 pm

kurla88 wrote:
AdmitMePls wrote:on the Orientation calendar it says the book sale is this Thursday evening. but thanks for the heads up about finding new editions!


Oh hmm, maybe they moved it up from last year!


Stuff is SOOOO cheap there...buy buy buy!

silly101
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby silly101 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:55 pm

ive skimmed this forum and found some answers about West Coast jobs, but would like to get some more info

one person said that it helps to have connections-what do you mean by that? that we made these connections before attending Penn?

and are there a lot of LA firms that recruit from Penn?
i would really like to come back to cali to work after law school...

Miranda 18
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Miranda 18 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:38 pm

With a look here and the legal employment threads it seems as though Penn students seem to have the most interviews. Do you think TLS has a skewed sample of Penn students or do most students have more than 15 interviews at OCI? If so that seems amazing and I am happy for all you :)

Action Jackson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Action Jackson » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:45 pm

silly101 wrote:ive skimmed this forum and found some answers about West Coast jobs, but would like to get some more info

one person said that it helps to have connections-what do you mean by that? that we made these connections before attending Penn?

and are there a lot of LA firms that recruit from Penn?
i would really like to come back to cali to work after law school...

In general you want to have some kind of ties to the market you're looking to break into. The smaller the market the more important ties become. So if you're from Cali and you're looking to move back after law school that puts you in a better position than if you'd never lived in Cali before, have no friends or family there, but want to be lawyer there for whatever reason.

Action Jackson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Action Jackson » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:48 pm

Miranda 18 wrote:With a look here and the legal employment threads it seems as though Penn students seem to have the most interviews. Do you think TLS has a skewed sample of Penn students or do most students have more than 15 interviews at OCI? If so that seems amazing and I am happy for all you :)

We use a lottery system, so number of interviews isn't as good a measure as it is at a school that prescreens. 15-20 interviews is normal, for what it's worth.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:49 pm

silly101 wrote:ive skimmed this forum and found some answers about West Coast jobs, but would like to get some more info

one person said that it helps to have connections-what do you mean by that? that we made these connections before attending Penn?

and are there a lot of LA firms that recruit from Penn?
i would really like to come back to cali to work after law school...


Connections such as: "born and raised in area", "worked in area before law school", "went to college in area", (softer)-("significant other in area")
...in the above post you say "come back to cali" and I am guessing you are from there and yes this will help you prove your connections to an area. However, Cali is a tough market. I dont know off hand how many LA firms come to Penn, but between on campus and regional interviews I am sure it is quite a bit. Plus you can mass mail if you are in market over your 1L summer.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:51 pm

Action Jackson wrote:
Miranda 18 wrote:With a look here and the legal employment threads it seems as though Penn students seem to have the most interviews. Do you think TLS has a skewed sample of Penn students or do most students have more than 15 interviews at OCI? If so that seems amazing and I am happy for all you :)

We use a lottery system, so number of interviews isn't as good a measure as it is at a school that prescreens. 15-20 interviews is normal, for what it's worth.


I did 28....I had a friend with 12 and another with 22. Its quality (ie are you in the firms grade range) that matters more then quantity.

silly101
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby silly101 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:57 am

underachiever wrote:
silly101 wrote:ive skimmed this forum and found some answers about West Coast jobs, but would like to get some more info

one person said that it helps to have connections-what do you mean by that? that we made these connections before attending Penn?

and are there a lot of LA firms that recruit from Penn?
i would really like to come back to cali to work after law school...


Connections such as: "born and raised in area", "worked in area before law school", "went to college in area", (softer)-("significant other in area")
...in the above post you say "come back to cali" and I am guessing you are from there and yes this will help you prove your connections to an area. However, Cali is a tough market. I dont know off hand how many LA firms come to Penn, but between on campus and regional interviews I am sure it is quite a bit. Plus you can mass mail if you are in market over your 1L summer.



thanks!
yeah im from socal and go to college here



also, are there a lot of ppl doing IP at Penn?
i have an engineering background, looking into patent law perhaps..

sperry
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby sperry » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:30 pm

Make sure you do well. I am below median, but probably not bottom third, and have virtually no prayer at a firm job. I had a lot of interviews and was not bidding on the top firms.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:14 pm

silly101 wrote:also, are there a lot of ppl doing IP at Penn?
i have an engineering background, looking into patent law perhaps..


I know 4 or 5 off-hand who are...It really helped them during OCI

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:40 am

sperry wrote:Make sure you do well. I am below median, but probably not bottom third, and have virtually no prayer at a firm job. I had a lot of interviews and was not bidding on the top firms.

There are a good number of people in the bottom third who got firm jobs, I think. Grades are only one factor.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:46 am

johnnyutah wrote:
sperry wrote:Make sure you do well. I am below median, but probably not bottom third, and have virtually no prayer at a firm job. I had a lot of interviews and was not bidding on the top firms.

There are a good number of people in the bottom third who got firm jobs, I think. Grades are only one factor.


Most bottom 1/3 and even some median people who have offers did it through connections, networking, outside or OCR...etc. The lower your grades the harder it is, but it is by no means impossible. You have Penn Law on your resume and firms can throw that on ur bio and make clients feel alright.

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:48 am

In general, how would you say that each of the following fared at OCI?

Top 3rd

Middle 3rd

Bottom 3rd

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:58 am

Veyron wrote:In general, how would you say that each of the following fared at OCI?

Top 3rd

Middle 3rd

Bottom 3rd

I'm class of 2011, our whole year was pretty much fucked :mrgreen:
I have the impression from 2Ls that this year was better, though.

Action Jackson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Action Jackson » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:09 pm

Top 3rd - awesome

Middle 3rd - employable

Bottom 3rd - SOL

I would guess 70% of middle third got out of OCI in one piece, and maybe 20% of the bottom 1/3 did. Everyone I know with questionable grades who seem to have gotten a callback/offer were people who had done something truly awesome before law school.

* I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass based on the feeling I've gotten talking to people. It definitely feels like around median and below is a heinous place to be.

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:07 pm

Action Jackson wrote:Top 3rd - awesome

Middle 3rd - employable

Bottom 3rd - SOL

I would guess 70% of middle third got out of OCI in one piece, and maybe 20% of the bottom 1/3 did. Everyone I know with questionable grades who seem to have gotten a callback/offer were people who had done something truly awesome before law school.

* I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass based on the feeling I've gotten talking to people. It definitely feels like around median and below is a heinous place to be.


Why would median and below heinous if middle 1/3 is getting 70% offers?

Action Jackson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Action Jackson » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:41 pm

Veyron wrote:
Action Jackson wrote:Top 3rd - awesome

Middle 3rd - employable

Bottom 3rd - SOL

I would guess 70% of middle third got out of OCI in one piece, and maybe 20% of the bottom 1/3 did. Everyone I know with questionable grades who seem to have gotten a callback/offer were people who had done something truly awesome before law school.

* I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass based on the feeling I've gotten talking to people. It definitely feels like around median and below is a heinous place to be.


Why would median and below heinous if middle 1/3 is getting 70% offers?

Yeah, that's all really vague and trying to shoehorn into those cutoff isn't working. I think a better characterization would be that people in the top to ~40% are pretty solid for getting a job, around median (slightly above and below) looks like either 50/50 or 40/60 in terms of job prospects, and below that it drops off pretty terribly. Median seems like a crapshoot.

I would call a coin flips chance at a job heinous, but that may be hyperbolic. 70% for middle 1/3 was probably being generous, too. The issue is that callbacks/offers don't track linearly with grades, so at the top people are feasting on jobs, and at the bottom there's nothin'.

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:21 pm

Action Jackson wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Action Jackson wrote:Top 3rd - awesome

Middle 3rd - employable

Bottom 3rd - SOL

I would guess 70% of middle third got out of OCI in one piece, and maybe 20% of the bottom 1/3 did. Everyone I know with questionable grades who seem to have gotten a callback/offer were people who had done something truly awesome before law school.

* I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass based on the feeling I've gotten talking to people. It definitely feels like around median and below is a heinous place to be.


Why would median and below heinous if middle 1/3 is getting 70% offers?

Yeah, that's all really vague and trying to shoehorn into those cutoff isn't working. I think a better characterization would be that people in the top to ~40% are pretty solid for getting a job, around median (slightly above and below) looks like either 50/50 or 40/60 in terms of job prospects, and below that it drops off pretty terribly. Median seems like a crapshoot.

I would call a coin flips chance at a job heinous, but that may be hyperbolic. 70% for middle 1/3 was probably being generous, too. The issue is that callbacks/offers don't track linearly with grades, so at the top people are feasting on jobs, and at the bottom there's nothin'.


Ouch! If this is better than last year, how bad was last year?

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:25 pm

Veyron wrote:
Ouch! If this is better than last year, how bad was last year?


It looks better (firms say it is, we had more interviews, more firms came and they did more interviews). But these firms know that they are hiring 1/4 as many kids as before and are being very selective, first on grades and then on fit...

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:30 pm

Veyron wrote:Ouch! If this is better than last year, how bad was last year?
Bad. At least one of my classmates took a year off so she could do OCI again in a better economic climate.

Action Jackson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Action Jackson » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:39 pm

underachiever wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Ouch! If this is better than last year, how bad was last year?


It looks better (firms say it is, we had more interviews, more firms came and they did more interviews). But these firms know that they are hiring 1/4 as many kids as before and are being very selective, first on grades and then on fit...

+1. There also wasn't the daily news of OCI cancellations over the summer, making everything *look* better. But... IT'S A TRAP!

No, but seriously, it's fucking awful.

Action Jackson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Action Jackson » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:39 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
Veyron wrote:Ouch! If this is better than last year, how bad was last year?
Bad. At least one of my classmates took a year off so she could do OCI again in a better economic climate.

Did that work for her?

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:34 pm

Action Jackson wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
Veyron wrote:Ouch! If this is better than last year, how bad was last year?
Bad. At least one of my classmates took a year off so she could do OCI again in a better economic climate.

Did that work for her?

Dunno, haven't seen her yet. I never knew her too well to begin with, but I'll probably hear through the grapevine once classes start next week.




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