Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Auxilio
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Auxilio » Fri May 08, 2015 10:16 pm

This is by no means necessary for me, but it is an ideal outcome, how possible do you think it is to get to Seattle from Penn? I sort of have strong ties (grew up across the water in Canada <100 miles away).

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sat May 09, 2015 10:45 am

Auxilio wrote:This is by no means necessary for me, but it is an ideal outcome, how possible do you think it is to get to Seattle from Penn? I sort of have strong ties (grew up across the water in Canada <100 miles away).


Anecdotally those who want to get to secondary markets with really good ties can go to whatever top law school they want to and get back. As long as you have the plainly-visible ties on a resume/cover letter, they'll consider you and recognize the Penn pedigree.

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Broncos847
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Broncos847 » Sat May 09, 2015 2:54 pm

Anyone have any experience or thoughts on living at home? My parents live in he graduate hospital area. I recently got into Penn but the only way going there makes sense financially is if I live at home. Will this negatively Impact my social life?

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sat May 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Broncos847 wrote:Anyone have any experience or thoughts on living at home? My parents live in he graduate hospital area. I recently got into Penn but the only way going there makes sense financially is if I live at home. Will this negatively Impact my social life?


I'd say nah but that depends on what kinda social life you're tryna have haha. In most instances I'd say it wouldn't matter.

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NotASpecialSnowflake
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby NotASpecialSnowflake » Wed May 20, 2015 7:29 pm

Is there anyone who recommends having a car if you are living in UC? I was going to bring my parents, but they heard stories about tires being stolen off of cars :roll: and they don't want me to bring it anymore.

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AlwaysPlayTheFox
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby AlwaysPlayTheFox » Thu May 21, 2015 1:15 pm

NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Is there anyone who recommends having a car if you are living in UC? I was going to bring my parents, but they heard stories about tires being stolen off of cars :roll: and they don't want me to bring it anymore.


There is no reason to have a car in UC. Public transportation is great and the city is very walkable.

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ymmv
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby ymmv » Thu May 21, 2015 2:17 pm

AlwaysPlayTheFox wrote:
NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Is there anyone who recommends having a car if you are living in UC? I was going to bring my parents, but they heard stories about tires being stolen off of cars :roll: and they don't want me to bring it anymore.


There is no reason to have a car in UC. Public transportation is great and the city is very walkable.


Seconded. Philly is one of the most walkable cities around and the public transit is more than adequate by US standards.

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OutCold
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby OutCold » Fri May 22, 2015 10:59 am

legendary47 wrote:
Penn16 wrote:Do NOT take Lee for Admin. That class was awful and the 24-hour take home exam was brutal. Abrams for Law & Econ was great: easy, little required reading, very laid back, and easy exam with a very generous curve.


I actually liked Lee for Admin a lot. Class was boring, but that'll be the case for any Admin professor. If you go to class, take good notes, and look over practice exams, the exam is really manageable. The class and lectures are EXTREMELY well organized and Lee is incredibly nice.

I also liked Lee's admin class. I took it spring of 3L as my only real substantive lecture course, and I don't know that I would recommend it as a 1L elective. As a 3L, if you have exams figured out, you'll do well with little work overall, simply because there's no substitute for experience and it is a class filled with 1Ls. It is a 24 hour take home, but I submitted after like 14-16 hours, and that was with a nice long lunch break and coffee breaks, and some heavy editing at the end to make it clean. If you are taking a full 24 hours, you either didn't know what you were doing or are going way overboard, especially with the relatively low word limit she sets. I think it is one of the easier substantive courses out there, although that might be due to the fact that Lee structures the material pretty efficiently. As mentioned, she is a very dry lecturer and she also does random cold calls, but cycles through so you'll only get called once a semester.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Fri May 22, 2015 11:21 am

24 hour take home exams are the fucking worst and should be avoided at all costs haha

I took Admin with Zaring; read a couple outlines and some of an E&E a week before to learn the stupid thing and got an A-. It's generally a super standard course with easily applicable rules. 90% of doing well on a standard Admin exam is just knowing how to take a law school exam generally. A 24 hour exam leaves more room for tricky overanalysis.

Also a 24 hour exam and a strict word limit is the perfect way to completely get fucked by the curve.

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samoby
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby samoby » Mon May 25, 2015 3:05 pm

Rising 2L here. Do any rising 3Ls or grads having any advice for maximizing success in the OCI bidding process? It's a bit of an enigma putting all of these employers in some semblance of an order and I'm hoping for a bit of guidance. Thanks in advance!

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Thu May 28, 2015 11:08 am

samoby wrote:Rising 2L here. Do any rising 3Ls or grads having any advice for maximizing success in the OCI bidding process? It's a bit of an enigma putting all of these employers in some semblance of an order and I'm hoping for a bit of guidance. Thanks in advance!

PM me and I can help.

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lim
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby lim » Sun May 31, 2015 11:58 pm

Hi, new here, and I'd love it if someone could help me out with some questions about Penn. I'm kind of in a situation where I need to make a decision by tomorrow, so while I'd normally look through the past pages and see what I can find (and I intend to later), I don't have that kind of time now. Sorry if these have been done to death :/

I didn't get to visit while classes were in session, so if someone has a few words about the sorts of personalities you seem to find at Penn, that'd be great. I know you'll find all sorts of people everywhere, but from my other visits it seems like you can get a sense for general atmosphere at most places.

How's the IP program at Penn compared to similar schools? I mean, I know it's not Stanford's IP program, but generally speaking?

Geographic placement? All the data I've seen is either old or self-selecting...
I mean, I know Penn tends to do really well with NYC, and then to a lesser extent DC. What about Chicago? West coast for IP?

..and very generally for anyone who has a few words to spare... do you/did you like your time at Penn? :)

Don't know if anyone will see this anytime soon, but figured it was worth a shot. Thanks in advance!

UpandDown97
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby UpandDown97 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:04 am

lim wrote:Hi, new here, and I'd love it if someone could help me out with some questions about Penn. I'm kind of in a situation where I need to make a decision by tomorrow, so while I'd normally look through the past pages and see what I can find (and I intend to later), I don't have that kind of time now. Sorry if these have been done to death :/

I didn't get to visit while classes were in session, so if someone has a few words about the sorts of personalities you seem to find at Penn, that'd be great. I know you'll find all sorts of people everywhere, but from my other visits it seems like you can get a sense for general atmosphere at most places.

How's the IP program at Penn compared to similar schools? I mean, I know it's not Stanford's IP program, but generally speaking?

Geographic placement? All the data I've seen is either old or self-selecting...
I mean, I know Penn tends to do really well with NYC, and then to a lesser extent DC. What about Chicago? West coast for IP?

..and very generally for anyone who has a few words to spare... do you/did you like your time at Penn? :)

Don't know if anyone will see this anytime soon, but figured it was worth a shot. Thanks in advance!


What geographic area are you looking to go to? What specific about IP?

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:19 am

lim wrote:How's the IP program at Penn compared to similar schools? I mean, I know it's not Stanford's IP program, but generally speaking?


It's fine if you're talking about patent lit or patent pros. Prof. Polk Wagner is a good guy. There are active IP groups on campus. This happened. There's a decent minority of people with tech backgrounds who want to do patent in any given class. I doubt it's significantly different than other top schools (except Stanford just because of the Silicon Valley proximity). If you're talking about IP transactional work or start up work, that's such a small minority of what jobs are available that you're pretty much talking about being Stanford or bust.

lim wrote:Geographic placement? All the data I've seen is either old or self-selecting...
I mean, I know Penn tends to do really well with NYC, and then to a lesser extent DC. What about Chicago? West coast for IP?


People go back to those markets in small but consistent numbers. It is difficult to generalize because your job search will not look like your average Penn job search. You will rely on regional interview fairs and your own networking. The rep of the school is fine in those markets, it's equivalent to its other out-of-market peers. The majority of Penn students will end up in DC/Philly/NYC. Generally speaking, law is a regional profession, so it doesn't usually make a lot of sense to leave the market you want to practice in if you have options in that market at a comparable value. But of course it depends on what your other options are.

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lim
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby lim » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:54 am

Thanks for the quick responses.

UpandDown97 wrote:What geographic area are you looking to go to? What specific about IP?


I have an engineering background, so though I'm sure people change their minds along the way, I believe patent law.
As for geographic area, I don't have enough of a preference to narrow down to a specific market beyond the general desire to be in a big city, so I'm just curious what the limitations are for each of my options. I'm currently deposited at a school that would probably do better in Chicago than Penn, but would not do as well as Penn in the northeast.

Nelson wrote:If you're talking about IP transactional work or start up work, that's such a small minority of what jobs are available that you're pretty much talking about being Stanford or bust.


Nope, not really, so that's good to hear.

Nelson wrote:People go back to those markets in small but consistent numbers. It is difficult to generalize because your job search will not look like your average Penn job search. You will rely on regional interview fairs and your own networking. The rep of the school is fine in those markets, it's equivalent to its other out-of-market peers. The majority of Penn students will end up in DC/Philly/NYC. Generally speaking, law is a regional profession, so it doesn't usually make a lot of sense to leave the market you want to practice in if you have options in that market at a comparable value. But of course it depends on what your other options are.


Is the Chicago firm representation at OCI nonexistent? I would've expected significantly less than DC/Philly/NYC but (correct me if I'm wrong), seems like you're saying they don't have much of a presence at all, given that regional interview fairs would be the best shot.
I'm not certain I'd want to end up in Chicago, just curious what the options are.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:12 am

lim wrote:Is the Chicago firm representation at OCI nonexistent? I would've expected significantly less than DC/Philly/NYC but (correct me if I'm wrong), seems like you're saying they don't have much of a presence at all, given that regional interview fairs would be the best shot.
I'm not certain I'd want to end up in Chicago, just curious what the options are.

There were a handful of firms. Like maybe a half dozen? Mostly interviewing for multiple offices (i.e. your chances aren't great because it's probably not a Chicago attorney doing the interview). The few people who went back to Chicago went to the midwest regional fair. Chicago is not a popular market from Penn (much less than the west coast or Texas even). It's not worth the firms' time to send people with so few candidates interested.

Are you from Chicago? You can go back there from Penn sure. Not sure why you would come out to Philly to go back to Chicago unless for some reason Northwestern and Chi were both not options or were prohibitively more expensive (which seems unlikely).

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lim
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby lim » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:36 am

Nelson wrote:Are you from Chicago? You can go back there from Penn sure. Not sure why you would come out to Philly to go back to Chicago unless for some reason Northwestern and Chi were both not options or were prohibitively more expensive (which seems unlikely).


No, I'm not. I've lived there for a short period of time, though, and I wouldn't mind going back, so I was just curious. Why Philly? Since I don't have a do or die geographic preference, I'm trying not to let it rule my decision, I guess. And I really liked Penn when I visited, though like I said hard to tell with no one around to talk to. Though as I've been slowly crawling backwards ITT, I'm a little bummed out by how everyone seems to dislike their 1L doctrinal profs/experiences. I know it's law school, not exactly fun and games all the time, just curious if this is a universal experience.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:18 am

lim wrote:Though as I've been slowly crawling backwards ITT, I'm a little bummed out by how everyone seems to dislike their 1L doctrinal profs/experiences. I know it's law school, not exactly fun and games all the time, just curious if this is a universal experience.


Mine were mostly awesome, but most of them are also gone.

It's three years of school to get a job as a lawyer. You will have lots of cool classes with great professors throughout your three years.

Your #1 concern should be getting a job. Don't nitpick over specific negatives, or else you'll go too far into the weeds.

I fucking loved it at Penn, I loved Philly, and I had countless good experiences. It's a good place. Just focus on where Penn will take your career.

Nelson is right in re Chicago; you can get there, but be sure to make a targeted effort before interviewing and be sure to take part in the regional interviewing program. One thing nobody has mentioned is that there is actually a patent law interviewing program as well; it takes place at Loyola Chicago (they're just the host) and has tons of employers. Our career services will hook you up if you're interested; I don't know about the specific mechanics but I do know the folks from better schools simply fare better there.

It sounds like you're pretty flexible for destinations. Assuming you've reconciled the financial difference between School X and Penn, I have to say I think you'd enjoy Penn and your career will certainly benefit.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:55 am

lim wrote:Though as I've been slowly crawling backwards ITT, I'm a little bummed out by how everyone seems to dislike their 1L doctrinal profs/experiences. I know it's law school, not exactly fun and games all the time, just curious if this is a universal experience.

As you'll discover at whatever school you go to, unjustified bitching is law school's (some might argue the entire profession's) number 1 pasttime.

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Clearly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Clearly » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:27 pm

lim wrote:
Nelson wrote:Are you from Chicago? You can go back there from Penn sure. Not sure why you would come out to Philly to go back to Chicago unless for some reason Northwestern and Chi were both not options or were prohibitively more expensive (which seems unlikely).


No, I'm not. I've lived there for a short period of time, though, and I wouldn't mind going back, so I was just curious. Why Philly? Since I don't have a do or die geographic preference, I'm trying not to let it rule my decision, I guess. And I really liked Penn when I visited, though like I said hard to tell with no one around to talk to. Though as I've been slowly crawling backwards ITT, I'm a little bummed out by how everyone seems to dislike their 1L doctrinal profs/experiences. I know it's law school, not exactly fun and games all the time, just curious if this is a universal experience.

I absolutely loved all but 1 of my 1L profs .

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lim
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby lim » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:42 pm

PennBull wrote:Your #1 concern should be getting a job. Don't nitpick over specific negatives, or else you'll go too far into the weeds.

Yeah, I'm probably pretty guilty of this. I've been fortunate to have options that don't differ very much in the ways that matter most (e.g. employment statistics, financial concerns), so I get stuck analyzing the minutia.
Also thanks for the info re Chicago. Wasn't aware of the patent law interviewing program, so that's something interesting to look into.

Clearly wrote:I absolutely loved all but 1 of my 1L profs .


Good to hear, thanks :)

And yeah, I'm sure I'll be bitching about law school in a few months, too. Was just curious because it seemed slightly more pronounced here.

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DCNTUA
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby DCNTUA » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:20 pm

Anyone have an opinion on Coglianese for Admin?

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ymmv
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby ymmv » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:11 pm

DCNTUA wrote:Anyone have an opinion on Coglianese for Admin?


He's a super nice guy. Very clear lecturer, though there's not much material to cover so the pacing can feel slow. Easy A if you skip class and listen to the recordings.

run26.2
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby run26.2 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:21 pm

Nelson wrote:
lim wrote:Is the Chicago firm representation at OCI nonexistent? I would've expected significantly less than DC/Philly/NYC but (correct me if I'm wrong), seems like you're saying they don't have much of a presence at all, given that regional interview fairs would be the best shot.
I'm not certain I'd want to end up in Chicago, just curious what the options are.

There were a handful of firms. Like maybe a half dozen? Mostly interviewing for multiple offices (i.e. your chances aren't great because it's probably not a Chicago attorney doing the interview). The few people who went back to Chicago went to the midwest regional fair. Chicago is not a popular market from Penn (much less than the west coast or Texas even). It's not worth the firms' time to send people with so few candidates interested.

Are you from Chicago? You can go back there from Penn sure. Not sure why you would come out to Philly to go back to Chicago unless for some reason Northwestern and Chi were both not options or were prohibitively more expensive (which seems unlikely).

Lim, you should be thinking about at least these firms: Sidley, Kirkland, and Latham. All of them have Chicago offices and excellent patent litigation practices. I know for certain that all of these firms interview at OCI (unless something changed since I graduated, but I doubt it). Maybe there's a rising 2L on here who could tell you whether or not those firms have slots specifically for the Chicago market at OCI.

If they don't have slots specifically for that office, you could contact them ahead of OCI and let them know your interest. I would guess you might be able to get something set up over the phone. It may even be easier going to one of these firms from Penn because there is less competition for them (in Chicago) than from NW, Chicago, or Michigan.

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DCNTUA
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby DCNTUA » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:05 pm

Hello again,

Does anyone know if there are major differences between the four-credit Corporations classes in the fall versus the three-credit Corporations class in the spring? I assume it covers less material, but any insight would be great. Also, these are the professors, if anyone wants to weigh in:

Bratton
Fisch
Paredes (three credit)
Skeel




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