Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sat May 24, 2014 9:00 pm

Nelson wrote:
notgreat wrote:Recently finished 1L at Penn. I have a few questions for all of the wise upperclassmen and recent grads.

PM'd.

Also bump for all of the lurkers now that it's bidlist season. I got some of my best advice for my bidlist from 2L/3Ls on TLS so feel free to PM folks on TLS. Shout out to Pennbull, hope you're doing OK with the bar.


Aye, I'm glad it worked out for you

Haven't started studying yet; currently enjoying a 10 day bender in Asheville haha. Going to a Nascar race tomorrow

Also happy to share my bidlist thoughts with anyone. A basic tenet everyone should have is to get as many job offers as possible, regardless if you actually like the position or not. Your goal is to be employed, and you can be picky later. I can help maximize your interview opportunities from the lottery, as well as a few tips to make folks want to give you a job offer.

@notgreat I'll PM you when I've finished my bender on Tuesday

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tigersaresexy
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby tigersaresexy » Sun May 25, 2014 7:18 am

Incoming 1L, I've been looking into some cool public interest stuff to do 1L summer (I am SO BORED), found an interesting program that runs from the very beginning of June to around the 20th of August, took a gander at the academic calender and it looks like it will probably interfere with OCR (this year it says it goes from August 6th-13th and callbacks are the 14th-29th so I'm imagining similar dates next year). I have a very rudimentary understanding of how OCR works, and for whatever reason Penn won't let me read about it on their website...are you required to be on campus for the duration? Hypothetically, would I be able to work a flexible schedule in DC or New York and still participate in OCR by commuting back and forth a few times a week?

Sorry if this is the world's stupidest question, but it's probably good to know if as a 2L I need to be prepared to spend the entirety of August 2015 in Philly.

Bonus question for anyone who received funding from Penn for public interest, what kind of funding are we talking about? Enough for rent and food in NYC/DC? Or should I be prepared to get a paying job? Also, how loose is the definition of public intrest...would unpaid work for a judge or a public defender count?

And on a completely unrelated note, how many hipsters do you think I would have to fight off to get a part-time gig at the Urban Outfitters by the law school?

WheatThins
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby WheatThins » Sun May 25, 2014 7:38 am

Can any transfers here talk about how they did at OCI, and in landing a firm job in general?

Thinking about whether it makes sense to try to go to Penn from my T20. Thanks.

johnB86
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnB86 » Sun May 25, 2014 7:45 am

tigersaresexy wrote:Incoming 1L, I've been looking into some cool public interest stuff to do 1L summer (I am SO BORED), found an interesting program that runs from the very beginning of June to around the 20th of August, took a gander at the academic calender and it looks like it will probably interfere with OCR (this year it says it goes from August 6th-13th and callbacks are the 14th-29th so I'm imagining similar dates next year). I have a very rudimentary understanding of how OCR works, and for whatever reason Penn won't let me read about it on their website...are you required to be on campus for the duration? Hypothetically, would I be able to work a flexible schedule in DC or New York and still participate in OCR by commuting back and forth a few times a week?

Sorry if this is the world's stupidest question, but it's probably good to know if as a 2L I need to be prepared to spend the entirety of August 2015 in Philly.

Bonus question for anyone who received funding from Penn for public interest, what kind of funding are we talking about? Enough for rent and food in NYC/DC? Or should I be prepared to get a paying job? Also, how loose is the definition of public intrest...would unpaid work for a judge or a public defender count?

And on a completely unrelated note, how many hipsters do you think I would have to fight off to get a part-time gig at the Urban Outfitters by the law school?



You should absolutely plan to be around during the entirety of OCI. As for the first week, the goal is to receive as many interviews as you can. You don't want to be turning down interviews because of a job that's not going to result in a full time offer. Different firms are on campus on different days so it's not possible to knock out 10 interviews in a day (you might have 3 one day, 2 the next, and 3 on the last day...so it's difficult to plan until you know the schedule).

With respect to call-backs: offers are made on a rolling basis. It behooves you to schedule your callback as soon as you receive the invite. Again, you don't want to be pushing off callbacks for a 1L summer job and then competing for the last few spots in a summer class.

Hope this helps and welcome to Penn!

johnB86
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnB86 » Sun May 25, 2014 7:51 am

WheatThins wrote:Can any transfers here talk about how they did at OCI, and in landing a firm job in general?

Thinking about whether it makes sense to try to go to Penn from my T20. Thanks.


Transfer from the class of 2013 here: my year (OCI 2011), transfers killed it. It seemed like almost all of us received multiple callbacks and offers. The upshot of transferring is getting in front of more interviewers. Penn has hundreds of firms come to OCI, my old school had less than 5. Whether or not it makes sense to transfer really depends on what OCI and job prospects look like at your T20 (and any scholarship/aid at your current school)

In my particular situation, transferring to Penn was the best decision I ever made (I was NOT giving up a sizable scholarship however, so the economics were similar)

Feel free to PM if I can answer any other questions.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sun May 25, 2014 7:58 am

johnB86 wrote:
WheatThins wrote:Can any transfers here talk about how they did at OCI, and in landing a firm job in general?

Thinking about whether it makes sense to try to go to Penn from my T20. Thanks.


Transfer from the class of 2013 here: my year (OCI 2011), transfers killed it. It seemed like almost all of us received multiple callbacks and offers. The upshot of transferring is getting in front of more interviewers. Penn has hundreds of firms come to OCI, my old school had less than 5. Whether or not it makes sense to transfer really depends on what OCI and job prospects look like at your T20 (and any scholarship/aid at your current school)

In my particular situation, transferring to Penn was the best decision I ever made (I was NOT giving up a sizable scholarship however, so the economics were similar)

Feel free to PM if I can answer any other questions.


This is all absolutely credited. I am friends with many of the transfers and they all typically do very very well. Firms are 95% basing their decision on their hiring criteria for your 1L school, but just seeing more interviewers makes your job search so much easier

run26.2
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby run26.2 » Sun May 25, 2014 12:08 pm

The above is credited, but I think c/o 2013 was a probably a bit better than average because the general sentiment in the industry when c/o 2013 went through OCI was a bit better than it had been in recent years. I'm not saying that the sentiment was correct, just that's what it was.

In my year, c/o 2012, transfers also did very well, but not quite as well as the following year. I make this statement only based on my own perception of the selectivity of firms at which transfers received jobs, not overall percentage (I simply don't know the absolute #s for 2013). Nearly everyone who wanted a firm job my year got one through OCI, and a good one, at that. In other words, your chances will be significantly improved if you want to get a job at a law firm by transferring.

Feel free to PM if you have questions about specifics.

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OutCold
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby OutCold » Thu May 29, 2014 3:11 pm

Feel free to PM as well with OCI bidlist questions, though my strategy was basically identical to Pennbull's.

I can also speak to the clerkship hunt if anyone is looking for that information. I know its pretty difficult to track down any sort of helpful information on the process, especially Penn-specific info.

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lastsamurai
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby lastsamurai » Fri May 30, 2014 11:29 am

tigersaresexy wrote:
Bonus question for anyone who received funding from Penn for public interest, what kind of funding are we talking about? Enough for rent and food in NYC/DC? Or should I be prepared to get a paying job? Also, how loose is the definition of public intrest...would unpaid work for a judge or a public defender count?



Did anyone answer the questions above? I'm also wondering what the breakdown of available funding is for different types of summer positions.

Thanks!

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ymmv
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby ymmv » Fri May 30, 2014 12:13 pm

lastsamurai wrote:
tigersaresexy wrote:
Bonus question for anyone who received funding from Penn for public interest, what kind of funding are we talking about? Enough for rent and food in NYC/DC? Or should I be prepared to get a paying job? Also, how loose is the definition of public intrest...would unpaid work for a judge or a public defender count?



Did anyone answer the questions above? I'm also wondering what the breakdown of available funding is for different types of summer positions.

Thanks!


I can't answer the question about PI funding, but I can categorically say that working another job during 1L is a horrible idea and that no one should even consider it. This will be perhaps the most crucial single year of the rest of your working life, and devoting the time and mental energy that should be spent improving grades for biglaw or networking for PI is catastrophically short-sighted. I do not hyperbolize here.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Fri May 30, 2014 2:35 pm

ymmv wrote:
lastsamurai wrote:
tigersaresexy wrote:
Bonus question for anyone who received funding from Penn for public interest, what kind of funding are we talking about? Enough for rent and food in NYC/DC? Or should I be prepared to get a paying job? Also, how loose is the definition of public intrest...would unpaid work for a judge or a public defender count?



Did anyone answer the questions above? I'm also wondering what the breakdown of available funding is for different types of summer positions.

Thanks!


I can't answer the question about PI funding, but I can categorically say that working another job during 1L is a horrible idea and that no one should even consider it. This will be perhaps the most crucial single year of the rest of your working life, and devoting the time and mental energy that should be spent improving grades for biglaw or networking for PI is catastrophically short-sighted. I do not hyperbolize here.


I don't think this was their question, if I'm reading it right. I think they're talking about getting a second job during the summer to help pay for more than the funding allows.

@ OP I think the funding covers a good chunk, but in many situations it can run short. If anything, it comes dangerously close that I wouldn't depend on it solely. My plan of action would be to take out a few student loans to help give me a cushion over the summer.

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ymmv
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby ymmv » Fri May 30, 2014 2:57 pm

PennBull wrote:
ymmv wrote:
lastsamurai wrote:
tigersaresexy wrote:
Bonus question for anyone who received funding from Penn for public interest, what kind of funding are we talking about? Enough for rent and food in NYC/DC? Or should I be prepared to get a paying job? Also, how loose is the definition of public intrest...would unpaid work for a judge or a public defender count?



Did anyone answer the questions above? I'm also wondering what the breakdown of available funding is for different types of summer positions.

Thanks!


I can't answer the question about PI funding, but I can categorically say that working another job during 1L is a horrible idea and that no one should even consider it. This will be perhaps the most crucial single year of the rest of your working life, and devoting the time and mental energy that should be spent improving grades for biglaw or networking for PI is catastrophically short-sighted. I do not hyperbolize here.


I don't think this was their question, if I'm reading it right. I think they're talking about getting a second job during the summer to help pay for more than the funding allows.


Ah, my misunderstanding. That makes more sense in context.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Fri May 30, 2014 4:34 pm

ymmv wrote:
I can't answer the question about PI funding, but I can categorically say that working another job during 1L is a horrible idea and that no one should even consider it. This will be perhaps the most crucial single year of the rest of your working life, and devoting the time and mental energy that should be spent improving grades for biglaw or networking for PI is catastrophically short-sighted. I do not hyperbolize here.

It depends on what the job is. I wouldnt recommend waiting tables or working retail. But I and many other people I know either freelanced, worked for pre-law school employers, or were RAs during 1L and suffered no ill effect. If you can set your own schedule and make a decent amount in less than 10 hrs per week it's totally worth doing.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Fri May 30, 2014 4:37 pm

The public interest funding is the same as most other schools: $4000-4500. Everyone who wants it gets it. It will help a little but probably isn't enough to get through a summer without tapping savings or student loan money.

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lastsamurai
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby lastsamurai » Sat May 31, 2014 12:36 pm

Nelson wrote:The public interest funding is the same as most other schools: $4000-4500. Everyone who wants it gets it. It will help a little but probably isn't enough to get through a summer without tapping savings or student loan money.


Thanks - exactly what I was looking for

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PDX4343
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PDX4343 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:46 am

Hey everybody. Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

I think that Penn is my top choice, but I haven't heard much about Penn's placement power in CA, specifically LA biglaw. I was hoping that someone ITT could speak to that. Also, I'm open to working in NYC if I need to, but I'd like to avoid it if at all possible. I would be interested in Philly biglaw if it was an option. But I grew up in CA, and don't really have any ties to Philly other than, if I choose Penn, having gone to school there. Would this be a problem? Or is deciding to go to school at Penn enough of an indication to employers that I want to be in Philly?

Thanks again!

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B.B. Homemaker
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby B.B. Homemaker » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:23 am

PDX4343 wrote:Hey everybody. Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

I think that Penn is my top choice, but I haven't heard much about Penn's placement power in CA, specifically LA biglaw. I was hoping that someone ITT could speak to that. Also, I'm open to working in NYC if I need to, but I'd like to avoid it if at all possible. I would be interested in Philly biglaw if it was an option. But I grew up in CA, and don't really have any ties to Philly other than, if I choose Penn, having gone to school there. Would this be a problem? Or is deciding to go to school at Penn enough of an indication to employers that I want to be in Philly?

Thanks again!

With CA connections you should be fine. They have regional interview programs in both SF and LA, and CA firms come to OCI and otherwise recruit at Penn.

NYC is always a backup option at Penn if it comes to that.

Philly would probably be a tougher sell without non-law school ties, but you can get involved in local things, work there during 1L summer, and otherwise try to build a Philly-centric narrative. Basically Penn would get you into NYC no problem and wouldn't preclude you from going home, but it likely won't, on its own, make Philly a sure thing.

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PDX4343
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PDX4343 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:07 pm

Good to hear. Thanks!

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ymmv
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby ymmv » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:02 am

Anyone know when journal placements have been announced in the past? Can we expect them in early July for mass mailing purposes, or is that way too optimistic?

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OutCold
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby OutCold » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:17 am

ymmv wrote:Anyone know when journal placements have been announced in the past? Can we expect them in early July for mass mailing purposes, or is that way too optimistic?


If I remember correctly, it was mid to late July two years ago. Definitely some lead time before OCI, but not enough that I had it on my initial batches of mailings.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:16 pm

ymmv wrote:Anyone know when journal placements have been announced in the past? Can we expect them in early July for mass mailing purposes, or is that way too optimistic?

July 26 for Law Review last year. You can probably wait until you hear to mail.

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ymmv
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby ymmv » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:53 pm

Nelson wrote:
ymmv wrote:Anyone know when journal placements have been announced in the past? Can we expect them in early July for mass mailing purposes, or is that way too optimistic?

July 26 for Law Review last year. You can probably wait until you hear to mail.


A lot of the advice on TLS is to mail earlier in July than that. Is it acceptable to mail early without journal results, then send a short addendum if we make LR, or better just to wait to mail at all until we know?

With the grades being so late this year - still incomplete as of today - I also wonder whether LR decisions might come even later than previous years, like barely days before OCI.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:23 pm

ymmv wrote:
Nelson wrote:
ymmv wrote:Anyone know when journal placements have been announced in the past? Can we expect them in early July for mass mailing purposes, or is that way too optimistic?

July 26 for Law Review last year. You can probably wait until you hear to mail.


A lot of the advice on TLS is to mail earlier in July than that. Is it acceptable to mail early without journal results, then send a short addendum if we make LR, or better just to wait to mail at all until we know?

With the grades being so late this year - still incomplete as of today - I also wonder whether LR decisions might come even later than previous years, like barely days before OCI.

I didn't mass mail so I don't really know the timing on that. I thought conventional wisdom was a week or two before OCI at most. I dont think firms really gear up for OCI until after their summers leave. I imagine that if you mail before journal, any decision is going to be made based before your update arrives so I doubt there's much point updating a week or two later unless you get a screener. Save the update for a second mailing post OCI (if needed).

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:38 pm

Don't let a journal decision affect your mailing schedule.

Penn16
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Penn16 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:01 pm

Getting away from the OCI talk for a sec, which prof(s) would y'all recommend for Corporations? The choices for the fall are Wachter, Bratton, and Fisch.

Edit: Woops, this might've been more appropriate in the forum just for law students, but oh well. Hope it's not a problem being here instead.




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