Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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tigersaresexy
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby tigersaresexy » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:00 am

PennBull wrote:Hey friends, good to see new questions coming to the thread. I love when admissions start coming out; please feel free to ask as many questions that come to mind! I'm always on here looking for ways to avoid studying for finals.


Thanks for the informative response!

I'm on the younger side too, will be 22 as a 1L...what would you say the proportion of students below 25 vs over 25 are in your year?

Also I've been wondering..how do they divide you into sections? Alphabetically, by age or just randomly?

Oh and, I read somewhere that Penn Law students don't have GPAs and rankings...is that true and how does that work with recruiting and internships?

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:57 am

gatorgal wrote:To piggyback off the housing discussion, how do you suggest going about housing? Just do it from [reliable] hearsay, or go and visit?

As someone looking for a studio under 1K, it seems like The Hub might be a great option. But I want to be sure as quickly as possible, as I see those apartments go fast.

I'm also thinking of just heading up for a day-trip and scouting it out. Is there a realty agency anyone suggests going through, or should I just schedule appointments with the apartments that have made my "list" myself?

Thanks for all the help!

No need for a realtor. If you can scout, it's your best option. Do some internet research first and scope out a bunch of places and you'll be able to find better deals.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:02 am

tigersaresexy wrote:
PennBull wrote:Hey friends, good to see new questions coming to the thread. I love when admissions start coming out; please feel free to ask as many questions that come to mind! I'm always on here looking for ways to avoid studying for finals.


Thanks for the informative response!

I'm on the younger side too, will be 22 as a 1L...what would you say the proportion of students below 25 vs over 25 are in your year?

Also I've been wondering..how do they divide you into sections? Alphabetically, by age or just randomly?

Oh and, I read somewhere that Penn Law students don't have GPAs and rankings...is that true and how does that work with recruiting and internships?

I think the trend is toward fewer folks going straight through from undergrad but I'm c/o 2015 and my year is at least 30-40% straight through. You won't feel out of place. 25ish is pretty common but only few folks are more than 5 yrs out.

Sections are either totally random or assigned via unknown means.

The school doesn't disclose your rank or GPA, but you send your grades with job apps and employers know roughly where you are on the curve. There's secret rank information the school uses for law review selection, honors at graduation etc.

And ditto what PennBull said, I'm happy to answer any questions new admits might have and congrats.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:57 am

I should add that it means absolutely nothing how old somebody is as far as who your friends end up being or whatever.

I was 20 when I started law school and two of my best friends here are upper 20s and married. I just found out a good friend of mine just turned 29 and I had no idea.

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twenty
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby twenty » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:31 pm

Considering switching my RD app to ED come early January. Few questions about Penn, and I guess Philly in general.

1) So PI. LST doesn't show a lot of Penn grads going into govt/PI out of law school -- is this just because most students are gunning for biglaw, or are there limited PI opportunities? In short, if your run-of-the-mill K-JD decided he wanted to work for a DA's office/non-DOJ feds/direct legal services/etc., would he be better off going to a different school?

2) Having been to Philly three times now, it's probably my second-least favorite city on the east coast. It feels like Detroit if Detroit were on the east coast and slightly less cold. I appreciate that a lot of cities will have crime/gang issues, but I'd like to isolate myself from that as much as physically possible, and I'm okay with paying more for that luxury (i.e, not living in west Philly, driving to school, etc.). I really, really don't mean to come off as an asshole, but... what steps can I take to minimize my exposure to Philadelphia while I'm at Penn? (Aside from studying abroad... which seems like a bad idea for a couple reasons. ;) )

3) How much interaction is there with undergrads? I see Penn geographically seems a bit removed from the "main area", but do law students kind of hang out in one area and that's it?

4) Is LRW still pass/fail? :D

5) What are the things that come to mind when you think of the differences between Penn and, say, UVA or NYU?

6) Is all biglaw NYC/Philly? If not, how hard is it to get back to a secondary market you have ties to? (i.e, SF, Boston, Los Angeles)

7) Assuming you'd choose Penn again, what things would you go back and do differently? (I.e, not taking a certain class for a letter grade, would bang more undergrads, would take weekend trips to Burmuda, etc.)

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chuckbass
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:17 pm

[quote="twentypercentmore"
2) Having been to Philly three times now, it's probably my second-least favorite city on the east coast. It feels like Detroit if Detroit were on the east coast and slightly less cold. I appreciate that a lot of cities will have crime/gang issues, but I'd like to isolate myself from that as much as physically possible, and I'm okay with paying more for that luxury (i.e, not living in west Philly, driving to school, etc.). I really, really don't mean to come off as an asshole, but... what steps can I take to minimize my exposure to Philadelphia while I'm at Penn? (Aside from studying abroad... which seems like a bad idea for a couple reasons. ;) )[/quote]
The nicest area is Rittenhouse Square, which is in Center City but to the west, on the way to Penn. It's very nice, relatively safe, and you should be happy there. When I visited admissions told me that a lot of students live in Rittenhouse. It's also easy to get to Penn from there via the subway. Philly really isn't as bad as you think it is. I hated it the first month I lived there, but really grew to love it.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:26 am

twentypercentmore wrote:1) So PI. LST doesn't show a lot of Penn grads going into govt/PI out of law school -- is this just because most students are gunning for biglaw, or are there limited PI opportunities? In short, if your run-of-the-mill K-JD decided he wanted to work for a DA's office/non-DOJ feds/direct legal services/etc., would he be better off going to a different school?

There is a small and dedicated group of people who want to do direct civil legal services and/or PD. I know a bunch of them, they're good people and the school has excellent connections with PD offices and civil legal aid organizations. Lou Rulli, who is the clinic director and runs the civil practice clinic, is amazing.

I don't know much about the prosecutor route because it's not my thing. There are people who go this route (at least one girl recently went to Philly DA), I don't know much about what the school has to offer in this department.

If you're talking about really prestigious impact-type PI, don't worry about it until after you snag your prestigious clerkship. There are people who want to do this, but it's not really something to go in aiming for because it requires excellent grades.

twentypercentmore wrote:2) Having been to Philly three times now, it's probably my second-least favorite city on the east coast. It feels like Detroit if Detroit were on the east coast and slightly less cold. I appreciate that a lot of cities will have crime/gang issues, but I'd like to isolate myself from that as much as physically possible, and I'm okay with paying more for that luxury (i.e, not living in west Philly, driving to school, etc.). I really, really don't mean to come off as an asshole, but... what steps can I take to minimize my exposure to Philadelphia while I'm at Penn?

This is ridiculous, but I'll bite. Plenty of people live in Center City which isn't even remotely like Detroit. You can overpay for a doorman building in one of the really nice buildings by the river and be both totally safe from gang violence and isolated from any of the nasty poors.

twentypercentmore wrote:3) How much interaction is there with undergrads? I see Penn geographically seems a bit removed from the "main area", but do law students kind of hang out in one area and that's it?

The law school is entirely self contained. You aren't going to run into non-law people on campus much unless you're taking non-law classes. I don't know anyone with much social interaction with undergrads. There's more overlap between the law school and Wharton/the other graduate schools. I am friends with some people at other grad schools at Penn.

twentypercentmore wrote:4) Is LRW still pass/fail? :D

It was this year, but they're still revamping the program. I don't think anyone knows for sure about next year, but I'd ask the school.

twentypercentmore wrote:5) What are the things that come to mind when you think of the differences between Penn and, say, UVA or NYU?

Penn is in the best non-NYC location (unless you're a crazy person and actually like Charlottesville or Ann Arbor) and is probably two-thirds the cost of living of NYU or Columbia, if not less.

twentypercentmore wrote:6) Is all biglaw NYC/Philly? If not, how hard is it to get back to a secondary market you have ties to? (i.e, SF, Boston, Los Angeles)

I know several people going back to the west coast or New England from my class. Secondary markets are entirely possible if you have the interest and the grades (what those grades need to be probably depends on a lot of other factors). NYC is just where the most jobs are and a ton of people either grew up in or worked in NYC before law school. Philly isn't that big of a market for Penn for biglaw-focused people (at least my impression this year) because there aren't that many spots here and the firms pay less. Only natives really target Philly firms. Plus, the Philly firm market contracted a lot again this year.

twentypercentmore wrote:7) Assuming you'd choose Penn again, what things would you go back and do differently?
Gotten more scholarship money up front.

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Clearly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Clearly » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:20 am

as an ED C/O2017, I just wanted to thank you guys for all the information thus far. I'm sure I'll have questions for you soon!

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twenty
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:45 am

[quote=scotth724]The nicest area is Rittenhouse Square, which is in Center City but to the west, on the way to Penn. It's very nice, relatively safe, and you should be happy there. When I visited admissions told me that a lot of students live in Rittenhouse. It's also easy to get to Penn from there via the subway. Philly really isn't as bad as you think it is. I hated it the first month I lived there, but really grew to love it.[/quote]

Awesome, this is the first I've heard of the area. Thanks for the heads up. :)


Nelson wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:1) So PI. LST doesn't show a lot of Penn grads going into govt/PI out of law school -- is this just because most students are gunning for biglaw, or are there limited PI opportunities? In short, if your run-of-the-mill K-JD decided he wanted to work for a DA's office/non-DOJ feds/direct legal services/etc., would he be better off going to a different school?

There is a small and dedicated group of people who want to do direct civil legal services and/or PD. I know a bunch of them, they're good people and the school has excellent connections with PD offices and civil legal aid organizations. Lou Rulli, who is the clinic director and runs the civil practice clinic, is amazing.

I don't know much about the prosecutor route because it's not my thing. There are people who go this route (at least one girl recently went to Philly DA), I don't know much about what the school has to offer in this department.

If you're talking about really prestigious impact-type PI, don't worry about it until after you snag your prestigious clerkship. There are people who want to do this, but it's not really something to go in aiming for because it requires excellent grades.


Yeah, not really thinking about prestigious impact PI or whatnot, more looking into local prosecution or a spot with a city attorney's office. I assume the normal rules of PI apply at Penn (network, hustle, rinse repeat), so it's good to know the LST imbalance isn't due to a lack of motivation on the school's part.

twentypercentmore wrote:2) Having been to Philly three times now, it's probably my second-least favorite city on the east coast. It feels like Detroit if Detroit were on the east coast and slightly less cold. I appreciate that a lot of cities will have crime/gang issues, but I'd like to isolate myself from that as much as physically possible, and I'm okay with paying more for that luxury (i.e, not living in west Philly, driving to school, etc.). I really, really don't mean to come off as an asshole, but... what steps can I take to minimize my exposure to Philadelphia while I'm at Penn?

This is ridiculous, but I'll bite. Plenty of people live in Center City which isn't even remotely like Detroit. You can overpay for a doorman building in one of the really nice buildings by the river and be both totally safe from gang violence and isolated from any of the nasty poors.


Yeah, I knew that'd sound a little jackassish, but I appreciate the thought. Most of my experience in Philadelphia has been on the western side of the river and North Philly, and I understand that's probably as unrepresentative as assuming Los Angeles is South Central. Millbourne and Upper Darby does look a little tempting due to the proximity of the MFL, is that area moderately okay?


twentypercentmore wrote:5) What are the things that come to mind when you think of the differences between Penn and, say, UVA or NYU?

Penn is in the best non-NYC location (unless you're a crazy person and actually like Charlottesville or Ann Arbor) and is probably two-thirds the cost of living of NYU or Columbia, if not less.


Not going to lie, the cost is a pretty nice factor.

Thanks for your help, both. :)

staples88
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby staples88 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:50 am

anyone ever take Crim Law (1L) with P Robinson? How does he compare to Katz, Rudovsky, and Morse? easy hard boring not boring?

thanks.

can you never show up, study outlines, and still do well?

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sopranorleone
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby sopranorleone » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:42 pm

staples88 wrote:anyone ever take Crim Law (1L) with P Robinson? How does he compare to Katz, Rudovsky, and Morse? easy hard boring not boring?

thanks.

can you never show up, study outlines, and still do well?


IDK how he compares to the others, but you definitely need to come to class. You have homework to do for every class, and you don't know in advance whether he'll call on you to write your answers on the board. He comes on strong, but eases up as the semester progresses. Also, agree with everything he says.

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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:32 am

PennBull wrote:I should add that it means absolutely nothing how old somebody is as far as who your friends end up being or whatever.

I was 20 when I started law school and two of my best friends here are upper 20s and married. I just found out a good friend of mine just turned 29 and I had no idea.

Yep. My close friends here range in age from 23 to 36.

LawwwYeaa
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby LawwwYeaa » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:34 am

Hi all,

Is anyone in this thread a child of UPenn faculty/staff who is taking advantage of the tuition benefit as a "qualifying relative"? If so, could you please pm me? I have a very specific question.

Thank you!

hopelessoptimist
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby hopelessoptimist » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:36 pm

Hey, just wanted to say I'm a 1L and willing to help answer questions as well now that my life has gotten so much nicer post-exams, especially Civ Pro.

staples88
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby staples88 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:47 pm

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Last edited by staples88 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

rogers
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby rogers » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:38 am

Another 1L checking in and try to shake off the post Civ Pro shell shock. Happy to answer questions about the school. Quick question for 2Ls, 3Ls and maybe even other 1Ls. Does anyone know when we get our grades? I know profs are supposed to submit them within one month of the day of the final, but do they start rolling in earlier than that? Thanks!

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No13baby
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby No13baby » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:36 am

rogers wrote:Another 1L checking in and try to shake off the post Civ Pro shell shock. Happy to answer questions about the school. Quick question for 2Ls, 3Ls and maybe even other 1Ls. Does anyone know when we get our grades? I know profs are supposed to submit them within one month of the day of the final, but do they start rolling in earlier than that? Thanks!

No, I think I got all of my first semester 1L grades in late January, and they were all within 48 hours of each other. The second semester grades were a bit more variable.

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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:35 pm

No13baby wrote:
rogers wrote:Another 1L checking in and try to shake off the post Civ Pro shell shock. Happy to answer questions about the school. Quick question for 2Ls, 3Ls and maybe even other 1Ls. Does anyone know when we get our grades? I know profs are supposed to submit them within one month of the day of the final, but do they start rolling in earlier than that? Thanks!

No, I think I got all of my first semester 1L grades in late January, and they were all within 48 hours of each other. The second semester grades were a bit more variable.


Sometimes a professor can be a giant asshole and not get you a grade forever. Happened to us for contracts. Just don't be one of those people bitching about how THIS AFFECTS OUR JOB SEARCH. Trust me, not gonna help. Administration will already be up the guy's ass about it, nothing you should except chill and have a beer.

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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:45 pm

staples88 wrote:
hopelessoptimist wrote:Hey, just wanted to say I'm a 1L and willing to help answer questions as well now that my life has gotten so much nicer post-exams, especially Civ Pro.


anyone ever take Crim Law (1L) with P Robinson? How does he compare to Katz, Rudovsky, and Morse? easy hard boring not boring?

thanks.

can you never show up, study outlines, and still do well?


He has an attendance requirement, which isn't technically legal, but he does things his own way. Something like if you miss four classes, you're automatically ineligible for the participation bonus. I didn't have a problem with it until he started counting days against people who missed for things like interviews. Either way, not sure why you wouldn't show up to class. He's got some weird theories you really gotta understand. Closed book exam, too.

I'm as big an advocate for the "cram for exams at the last second using only old outlines while spending all semester adjusting fantasy football rosters" method, but for upperclassmen.

Robinson is a mildly interesting dude, but there's no laptops allowed which really sucked during the boring parts. I actually started drinking coffee for the first time that semester because I would have a lunch food coma and I had a zero percent chance of actually staying awake.

I just printed off old outlines and took notes the margins. He doesn't change his lectures a whole lot year to year.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:48 pm

Edit: I just realized you may be taking it as a transfer 2L? In that case, I can't strongly recommend him, but his outlines are pretty good and don't change a whole lot. I'd still go to class (skipping Friday) though.

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dsn32
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby dsn32 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:31 pm

All of this Robinson talk sounds like a drag.... how does TLS feel about Mooney, Kreimer, and Balganesh?

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:39 pm

dsn32 wrote:All of this Robinson talk sounds like a drag.... how does TLS feel about Mooney, Kreimer, and Balganesh?


Mooney is apparently horrible, Kreimer is good, Balganesh gets really mixed reviews.

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dsn32
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby dsn32 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:42 pm

PennBull wrote:
dsn32 wrote:All of this Robinson talk sounds like a drag.... how does TLS feel about Mooney, Kreimer, and Balganesh?


Mooney is apparently horrible, Kreimer is good, Balganesh gets really mixed reviews.


haha this is good to know, looks like I'll be utilizing add/drop period. Thanks!

staples88
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby staples88 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:39 pm

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Last edited by staples88 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:50 pm

staples88 wrote:is P Robinson atypically strict?
if given the choice, should I go with L Katz instead?


Are you an employed 2L?




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