Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:04 pm

I think the whole Philly firms want ties thing is waaaay overblown. I've had Philly firm hiring people tell me that Penn kids go way overboard trying to sell their ties. Philly is just a small market so it's going to be tough regardless.

westphillybandr
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby westphillybandr » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:14 pm

General bidlist question. Let's say a firm has a 20% successful bidrate. How high do you need to place them to get an interview? first bid? top 5? top 10?

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laotze
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby laotze » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:30 pm

Nelson wrote:I think the whole Philly firms want ties thing is waaaay overblown. I've had Philly firm hiring people tell me that Penn kids go way overboard trying to sell their ties. Philly is just a small market so it's going to be tough regardless.


Agreed. And TLSers are forever underestimating the effect of self-selection. Penn attracts students from all over the country - hell, from all over the world, for that matter. Temple, on the other hand, who's ever heard of that outside the Greater Philadelphia and maaaaybe tri-state area?
Of course Penn is going to be populated by students who wind up pursuing jobs in NYC, DC, whatever, and of course Temple is going to be populated by locals who are far more likely and/or willing to stay in the area, not to mention who have less of a choice about it.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:26 am

Nelson wrote:I think the whole Philly firms want ties thing is waaaay overblown. I've had Philly firm hiring people tell me that Penn kids go way overboard trying to sell their ties. Philly is just a small market so it's going to be tough regardless.


It's definitely a grades/ties tradeoff breh. I've known colleagues with zero ties land multiple Philly offers with zero ties, an average story, and exceptional grades, and born-and-bred-thru-and-thru-Philly people miss out for a hodgepodge of bullshit.

Philly is NOT easy for Penn folks. You have to want to be here, give a good-but-not-oversold-story, and have a good grade background behind you.

Philadelphia has an inferiority complex (and I mean that in a friendly way because I do too haha). Philly firms are not willing to put up with folks who "appear" (quotations on purpose) to have Philly as a backup option.

TL;DR: If you have the Philly background, it is easier for you to break into the Philly market. Just don't think it's some sort of substitute for grades or interview skills. The Philly firms are still testing you like any other firm.

Gisney
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Gisney » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:27 pm

Hey so I was curious about the gym situation. The Pottruck seems like a good option for law students (plz correct me if I am wrong) but I was curious about when we would get to use the facility. It says we need an ID card to register so would I have to wait till orientation to sign up? I ask because I am moving to Philly early August and don't want to miss a whole month of working out.

swoozie
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby swoozie » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:09 pm

Gisney wrote:Hey so I was curious about the gym situation. The Pottruck seems like a good option for law students (plz correct me if I am wrong) but I was curious about when we would get to use the facility. It says we need an ID card to register so would I have to wait till orientation to sign up? I ask because I am moving to Philly early August and don't want to miss a whole month of working out.

I waaaant to say that the gym memberships run Sep-Aug, so the new annual one doesn't start until September. However, I think a girl I know called and was able to get a prorated membership for just August last year (they took down her name and checked it or something if she wanted to use the gym). I have no source on this but my fuzzy memory. :D

HeavenWood
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:17 pm

PennBull wrote:
Nelson wrote:I think the whole Philly firms want ties thing is waaaay overblown. I've had Philly firm hiring people tell me that Penn kids go way overboard trying to sell their ties. Philly is just a small market so it's going to be tough regardless.


It's definitely a grades/ties tradeoff breh. I've known colleagues with zero ties land multiple Philly offers with zero ties, an average story, and exceptional grades, and born-and-bred-thru-and-thru-Philly people miss out for a hodgepodge of bullshit.

Philly is NOT easy for Penn folks. You have to want to be here, give a good-but-not-oversold-story, and have a good grade background behind you.

Philadelphia has an inferiority complex (and I mean that in a friendly way because I do too haha). Philly firms are not willing to put up with folks who "appear" (quotations on purpose) to have Philly as a backup option.

TL;DR: If you have the Philly background, it is easier for you to break into the Philly market. Just don't think it's some sort of substitute for grades or interview skills. The Philly firms are still testing you like any other firm.

TITCR

Also, Philly class sizes are smaller, which makes things a bit more of a crap-shoot.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:08 pm

laotze wrote:
Nelson wrote:I think the whole Philly firms want ties thing is waaaay overblown. I've had Philly firm hiring people tell me that Penn kids go way overboard trying to sell their ties. Philly is just a small market so it's going to be tough regardless.


Agreed. And TLSers are forever underestimating the effect of self-selection. Penn attracts students from all over the country - hell, from all over the world, for that matter. Temple, on the other hand, who's ever heard of that outside the Greater Philadelphia and maaaaybe tri-state area?
Of course Penn is going to be populated by students who wind up pursuing jobs in NYC, DC, whatever, and of course Temple is going to be populated by locals who are far more likely and/or willing to stay in the area, not to mention who have less of a choice about it.

TBF I'd heard of Temple looong before I'd heard of Penn. Only because I'm a college basketball fan, though.

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laotze
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby laotze » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:55 am

johnnyutah wrote:
laotze wrote:
Nelson wrote:I think the whole Philly firms want ties thing is waaaay overblown. I've had Philly firm hiring people tell me that Penn kids go way overboard trying to sell their ties. Philly is just a small market so it's going to be tough regardless.


Agreed. And TLSers are forever underestimating the effect of self-selection. Penn attracts students from all over the country - hell, from all over the world, for that matter. Temple, on the other hand, who's ever heard of that outside the Greater Philadelphia and maaaaybe tri-state area?
Of course Penn is going to be populated by students who wind up pursuing jobs in NYC, DC, whatever, and of course Temple is going to be populated by locals who are far more likely and/or willing to stay in the area, not to mention who have less of a choice about it.

TBF I'd heard of Temple looong before I'd heard of Penn. Only because I'm a college basketball fan, though.


Fair enough. But I'm guessing you probably wouldn't uproot across the country for Temple Law without very specific reasons for wanting to practice in Philadelphia?

SportsFan
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby SportsFan » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:46 pm

I suppose its not really something to stress over, but I have no idea how to approach scheduling for next year. Where should I even begin figuring out what to take?

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Balthy
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Balthy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:12 pm

Sorry if this was covered before. Are any of you Penn students pursuing one of the certificates available through Wharton? I was considering applying to JD/MBA programs, but since I don't think I'll get into very many top MBA programs, I've been looking into cross-listed course offerings throughout the t14 instead. I'm interested in getting some formal business training in law school (not just corporate law, corporate finance for lawyers, etc.). Penn Law seems to emphasize opportunities through its b-school neighbor (without being in the dual degree program) more than other top schools. Any insight into those opportunities? Is there a wide range of pure business coures available to law students? Do you know the limit, and do you know how it compares to other top schools? I would guess that Penn would be one of the more generous schools in allowing B school courses to count towards your JD.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:23 pm

superdingle2000 wrote:Sorry if this was covered before. Are any of you Penn students pursuing one of the certificates available through Wharton? I was considering applying to JD/MBA programs, but since I don't think I'll get into very many top MBA programs, I've been looking into cross-listed course offerings throughout the t14 instead. I'm interested in getting some formal business training in law school (not just corporate law, corporate finance for lawyers, etc.). Penn Law seems to emphasize opportunities through its b-school neighbor (without being in the dual degree program) more than other top schools. Any insight into those opportunities? Is there a wide range of pure business coures available to law students? Do you know the limit, and do you know how it compares to other top schools? I would guess that Penn would be one of the more generous schools in allowing B school courses to count towards your JD.

A pretty good number of people from my year are doing the three year JD/MBA. Getting into that program is competitive, but it's definitely a way for some people to get into Wharton MBA who otherwise would have a tougher time.

The certificate program is only a handful of classes, 3 or 4 I think, and some of them are crosslisted. You can't take more than 4 classes away from the law school, regardless of what program (JD/MBA is obviously a different story). If you're interested for your own knowledge purposes, then I would guess that that's probably enough (if you want more than that, then law school probably isn't a great idea). My impression is that the certificate programs don't really give much in the way of tangible career benefit. I'm no expert on that though.

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laotze
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby laotze » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:29 pm

Nelson wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:Sorry if this was covered before. Are any of you Penn students pursuing one of the certificates available through Wharton? I was considering applying to JD/MBA programs, but since I don't think I'll get into very many top MBA programs, I've been looking into cross-listed course offerings throughout the t14 instead. I'm interested in getting some formal business training in law school (not just corporate law, corporate finance for lawyers, etc.). Penn Law seems to emphasize opportunities through its b-school neighbor (without being in the dual degree program) more than other top schools. Any insight into those opportunities? Is there a wide range of pure business coures available to law students? Do you know the limit, and do you know how it compares to other top schools? I would guess that Penn would be one of the more generous schools in allowing B school courses to count towards your JD.

A pretty good number of people from my year are doing the three year JD/MBA. Getting into that program is competitive, but it's definitely a way for some people to get into Wharton MBA who otherwise would have a tougher time.

The certificate program is only a handful of classes, 3 or 4 I think, and some of them are crosslisted. You can't take more than 4 classes away from the law school, regardless of what program (JD/MBA is obviously a different story). If you're interested for your own knowledge purposes, then I would guess that that's probably enough (if you want more than that, then law school probably isn't a great idea). My impression is that the certificate programs don't really give much in the way of tangible career benefit. I'm no expert on that though.


As a lawyer, what is the tangible career benefit to an MBA?

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:32 pm

laotze wrote:
Nelson wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:Sorry if this was covered before. Are any of you Penn students pursuing one of the certificates available through Wharton? I was considering applying to JD/MBA programs, but since I don't think I'll get into very many top MBA programs, I've been looking into cross-listed course offerings throughout the t14 instead. I'm interested in getting some formal business training in law school (not just corporate law, corporate finance for lawyers, etc.). Penn Law seems to emphasize opportunities through its b-school neighbor (without being in the dual degree program) more than other top schools. Any insight into those opportunities? Is there a wide range of pure business coures available to law students? Do you know the limit, and do you know how it compares to other top schools? I would guess that Penn would be one of the more generous schools in allowing B school courses to count towards your JD.

A pretty good number of people from my year are doing the three year JD/MBA. Getting into that program is competitive, but it's definitely a way for some people to get into Wharton MBA who otherwise would have a tougher time.

The certificate program is only a handful of classes, 3 or 4 I think, and some of them are crosslisted. You can't take more than 4 classes away from the law school, regardless of what program (JD/MBA is obviously a different story). If you're interested for your own knowledge purposes, then I would guess that that's probably enough (if you want more than that, then law school probably isn't a great idea). My impression is that the certificate programs don't really give much in the way of tangible career benefit. I'm no expert on that though.


As a lawyer, what is the tangible career benefit to an MBA?

Not sure. Not all of the JD/MBAs want to practice law though.

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Balthy
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Balthy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:37 pm

Nelson wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:Sorry if this was covered before. Are any of you Penn students pursuing one of the certificates available through Wharton? I was considering applying to JD/MBA programs, but since I don't think I'll get into very many top MBA programs, I've been looking into cross-listed course offerings throughout the t14 instead. I'm interested in getting some formal business training in law school (not just corporate law, corporate finance for lawyers, etc.). Penn Law seems to emphasize opportunities through its b-school neighbor (without being in the dual degree program) more than other top schools. Any insight into those opportunities? Is there a wide range of pure business coures available to law students? Do you know the limit, and do you know how it compares to other top schools? I would guess that Penn would be one of the more generous schools in allowing B school courses to count towards your JD.

A pretty good number of people from my year are doing the three year JD/MBA. Getting into that program is competitive, but it's definitely a way for some people to get into Wharton MBA who otherwise would have a tougher time.

The certificate program is only a handful of classes, 3 or 4 I think, and some of them are crosslisted. You can't take more than 4 classes away from the law school, regardless of what program (JD/MBA is obviously a different story). If you're interested for your own knowledge purposes, then I would guess that that's probably enough (if you want more than that, then law school probably isn't a great idea). My impression is that the certificate programs don't really give much in the way of tangible career benefit. I'm no expert on that though.



Thanks for the answer.

Yeah, mostly for personal knowledge purposes. That's still a bit of a disappointment though; I expected them to allow more courses. So the three yr jd/mba is a bit easier to get into than the MBA would be independently? I didn't know that-- definitely have to look further into it.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:40 pm

superdingle2000 wrote:Yeah, mostly for personal knowledge purposes. That's still a bit of a disappointment though; I expected them to allow more courses.

That's one per semester for 2L and 3L, I doubt there are many schools that allow more than that.

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Balthy
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Balthy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:08 pm

Nelson wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:Yeah, mostly for personal knowledge purposes. That's still a bit of a disappointment though; I expected them to allow more courses.

That's one per semester for 2L and 3L, I doubt there are many schools that allow more than that.



Ok, 0L mistake in expectations. Glad to get some perspective.. thanks!

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venus
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby venus » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:41 pm

Hey everyone. I'm going to be a 1L in the fall and I'm trying to come up with my own estimate of the COA. How much do you spend on books per year/semester? The financial aid worksheet says $1625 for the year. I know books are probably pretty expensive in law school but I was wondering if that's a roughly accurate estimate?

swoozie
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby swoozie » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:58 pm

venus wrote:Hey everyone. I'm going to be a 1L in the fall and I'm trying to come up with my own estimate of the COA. How much do you spend on books per year/semester? The financial aid worksheet says $1625 for the year. I know books are probably pretty expensive in law school but I was wondering if that's a roughly accurate estimate?

Seems pretty accurate to me if you just go through the bookstore/buying them new. I got my book cost much lower than that by renting and buying them off upperclassmen.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:01 pm

swoozie wrote:
venus wrote:Hey everyone. I'm going to be a 1L in the fall and I'm trying to come up with my own estimate of the COA. How much do you spend on books per year/semester? The financial aid worksheet says $1625 for the year. I know books are probably pretty expensive in law school but I was wondering if that's a roughly accurate estimate?

Seems pretty accurate to me if you just go through the bookstore/buying them new. I got my book cost much lower than that by renting and buying them off upperclassmen.


Do what this person says. No idea why anyone buys these things.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:50 am

venus wrote:Hey everyone. I'm going to be a 1L in the fall and I'm trying to come up with my own estimate of the COA. How much do you spend on books per year/semester? The financial aid worksheet says $1625 for the year. I know books are probably pretty expensive in law school but I was wondering if that's a roughly accurate estimate?

I stupidly bought my books new both semesters but even still paid less than that. That's an absolute max and you can easily spend half that depending on how anal you are about the condition of your books.

westphillybandr
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby westphillybandr » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:08 am

Do your best to save money on casebooks. You don't need to get brand new books. Buy used. Rent. Come finals -- You will not be relying on casebooks for your studies.

I know you probably won't take this advice but you don't need to buy the newest edition for the Con Law casebook. You can buy an old edition for a fraction of the price and supplement with the newer opinions/make copies .

tonybromo
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby tonybromo » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:57 am

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Last edited by tonybromo on Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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venus
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby venus » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:12 am

Great, thanks! That's what I thought. I'm not sure if renting would work for me, since I sometimes underline with a pencil but I'll definitely look for used books.

Do you guys remember when the fall semester class schedule became available to students?

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:32 am

venus wrote:Great, thanks! That's what I thought. I'm not sure if renting would work for me, since I sometimes underline with a pencil but I'll definitely look for used books.

Do you guys remember when the fall semester class schedule became available to students?


When you rent books, you're allowed to do full markup on the books.




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