Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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puppleberry finn
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby puppleberry finn » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:52 pm

shadowfrost000 wrote:ROFL. It's on the first page of google image search for "harry potter". Couldn't resist.


k. will be on the lookout for you in march!

Image

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MC Southstar
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby MC Southstar » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:57 pm

puppins wrote:
shadowfrost000 wrote:ROFL. It's on the first page of google image search for "harry potter". Couldn't resist.


k. will be on the lookout for you in march!



--ImageRemoved--

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby puppleberry finn » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 pm

damnit I looked for an asian harry potter, too, and failed.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby MC Southstar » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:02 pm

puppins wrote:damnit I looked for an asian harry potter, too, and failed.


There was a lot of porn along the way. A lot of irrelevant porn. But that happens anytime you type in the word Asian.

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby puppleberry finn » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:04 pm

shadowfrost000 wrote:
puppins wrote:damnit I looked for an asian harry potter, too, and failed.


There was a lot of porn along the way. A lot of irrelevant porn. But that happens anytime you type in the word Asian.


tentacles ::shudders::

riccardo426
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby riccardo426 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:24 pm

Might as well throw this out there now. Any 2 and 3L's got advice for the following professors?

Robinson
Roosevelt
Adler
Bagchi

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biggamejames
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby biggamejames » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:25 pm

riccardo426 wrote:Robinson

Robinson stands like the Captain Morgan guy when he lectures.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:26 pm

riccardo426 wrote:Might as well throw this out there now. Any 2 and 3L's got advice for the following professors?

Robinson
Roosevelt
Adler
Bagchi

<3 Roosevelt... but he sucks for Con law.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:31 am

What about

Kreimer
Katz
Coglianese

and
Law and Economics (Klick)- Registered for this now, but I its packed with econ majors & im not looking to fight up hill for a B
or
Labor Law in Comparative Perspective (Bagchi)- May take this instead, seems more like an equal playing field of new material for everyone & it seems like a useful class for a 1L who has no idea what kind of law they want to practice.

One more question, where can i see the grade distribution that profs gave out in their past classes...this may help me decided :)? Thanks!

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:46 am

underachiever wrote:What about

Kreimer
Katz
Coglianese

and
Law and Economics (Klick)- Registered for this now, but I its packed with econ majors & I'm not looking to fight up hill for a B
or
Labor Law in Comparative Perspective (Bagchi)- May take this instead, seems more like an equal playing field of new material for everyone & it seems like a useful class for a 1L who has no idea what kind of law they want to practice.

One more question, where can i see the grade distribution that profs gave out in their past classes...this may help me decided :)? Thanks!

Kreimer: Taught section 1 last year, I didn't hear bad things, I'll check with a few folks and get back to you (I don't think any old sec. 1 people post)
Katz: People loved him for K's, but there was less love for him in Crim. I thought he was perfectly nice and wasn't a horrible prof, but he is rather hands off about really teaching the rules. He is more interested in pushing hypotheticals and figuring out why parts of the MPC were written (aka making us come up with our own hypos). The exam was straight forward but ours wasn't nearly as interesting as previous years which was disappointing. The MC is sucky, but nothing you can do about it.
Coglianese: I had him last year but not for admin, he is terribly boring and his exam was a curve ball but he's a nice man who really wants you to learn/understand the material. He didn't cold call at all, it was him lecturing and taking volunteers, I'm not sure whether this will stay the same with a larger class. My LWI had him for Admin and she said he was good but boring and that the exam was straightforward.
Klick: I've heard good things but I know nothing personally. The exam is take home and you don't have to buy a book which is nice. The only person I talked to about it last year was an econ major and he said it was pretty easy, but that might be because of his background :)
Bagchi: I've only heard about her in K's but nothing bad. Not much else to say.

Grade distributions are available in the registrar's office (once its open again). They are in plastic bound books usually on the right side of the counter you see when you walk in. If you can't find them the women in the office are really nice and happy to help :)

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MC Southstar
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby MC Southstar » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:59 am

I noticed Penn has a number of 3 year joint degree programs, including a JD/MBA. I assume this means you get both degrees in 3 years. Do you know anyone that has done this and is it a lot of extra work/stress for a 1L?

What is the 1L course schedule like? I saw your post earlier about approximate time per course per week but I'm not sure if you already addressed which courses are taken in which semester first year. Are electives generally less intensive than the core curriculum? How much flexibility is there to take electives, both first year and beyond?

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DelDad
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby DelDad » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:18 am

Had Kreimer for ConLaw, and really enjoyed his class, though it was a TON of work/reading. I had ~225 cases in my outline by the end of the semester. Style-wise, he loves theory and will stick with someone he's cold-called until he's explored everything he wants to explore, which is likely beyond the point up to which the student has though about the issue (but he doesn't seem to hold that against anyone). He's very liberal and upfront about it.

Had Bagchi for both Contracts and Labor Law, although Labor Law was a seminar when I had it, rather than a 1L elective. In the small group, she was extremely good at facilitating discussions and challenging assumptions. Hope she's as good in the larger class. Just coming back from maternity leave.

Incidentally, I asked both of these professors for letters of recommendation during my clerkship application process, and both were really helpful and involved. Good people.

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby puppleberry finn » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:25 am

shadowfrost000 wrote:I noticed Penn has a number of 3 year joint degree programs, including a JD/MBA. I assume this means you get both degrees in 3 years. Do you know anyone that has done this and is it a lot of extra work/stress for a 1L?

What is the 1L course schedule like? I saw your post earlier about approximate time per course per week but I'm not sure if you already addressed which courses are taken in which semester first year. Are electives generally less intensive than the core curriculum? How much flexibility is there to take electives, both first year and beyond?


Also, can someone add to this when and where (and how?) clinical courses come into play? Can you be involved in them without taking the course for credit, are you expected to take several, etc?

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:27 am

shadowfrost000 wrote:I noticed Penn has a number of 3 year joint degree programs, including a JD/MBA. I assume this means you get both degrees in 3 years. Do you know anyone that has done this and is it a lot of extra work/stress for a 1L?

What is the 1L course schedule like? I saw your post earlier about approximate time per course per week but I'm not sure if you already addressed which courses are taken in which semester first year. Are electives generally less intensive than the core curriculum? How much flexibility is there to take electives, both first year and beyond?

I don't know anyone in the 3 year JD/MBA program , I think it was approved after my class started so people who had applied were doing the 4 year program they had previously. I do know a 1L who is a JD/MBA but he isn't sure he will end up doing the MBA (long story).
As far as I know, the JD/MBA program always has 1L just at the law school so its nothing added to 1L classes/stress.
The details of the program are here: https://common.law.upenn.edu/ACADEMICS/ ... JDMBA.aspx
Seems you wont have ANY free time over the first summer which may be a problem for Biglaw hiring (since not working 1L summer is just about the only thing they DON'T approve of for that summer) but maybe they wouldn't care since you'll be getting an MBA.

As far as how 1L works...
First semester you have 4 substantive courses and legal writing. I think Civ Pro is always taught first semester, the rest is flexible (the remaining required classes for 1L are Contracts, Property, Torts, Criminal law, Constitutional law). Each of those classes are 4 credits and will meet 3 times per week for 1 hour and 15 minutes. Generally for 1L, one class is at 9am (aka 3 times/week), and you're done by 4pm. There is also legal writing which meets once or twice a week at lunchtime depending on the week. One of those meetings is a cohort meeting which is with 12-15 other 1Ls and your 3L legal writing instructor. The other meeting is a large lecture (about half the 1L class) with one of the legal writing professors. [Total credits for 1st semester: 18, 2 of them pass/fail]

Second semester you take the remaining 2 substantive classes (my year it was con and crim other than section 1 which had con and prop, this year its also con and crim) as well as a second semester of legal writing and 2 elective courses. The electives are not completely open, there are two types, perspectives and regulatory. This semester the perspectives are: Chinese law, IP law, Jurisprudence, Labor law, Law and Econ, and Legal Responses to Inequality. The regulatory electives are: Admin, International law, Climate change law and policy (taught by the phenomenal... until I get my grade... Prof. Johnston), and Legislation. I think there is something for everyone on that list and it changes a little every year (e.g. my year we had Privacy, Environmental law, and Health law but not Legislation, Labor Law, or Climate Change). The electives meet twice per week for an hour and 20 min each time. I didn't find that the electives were more or less work, it really was dependent on the professor. My crim prof assigned (and got through) minimal reading (e.g. 10-20 pages) whereas my con prof assigned 30-50 pages per class because our casebook was so terribly edited. My elective classes assigned 20-40 pages depending on the day, I almost always read for one of them and the other one not so much. Additionally, I rarely read for con law but pretty much always read for crim. Second semester was definitely more relaxed (IMO) than first semester because the "I have no idea what this is going to be like" stress was gone. There was still a lot to do and Legal Writing was more demanding second semester, but you also have 2 less classes per week thanks to electives being only twice per week (and generally they get rid of the 9ams for second semester). [Total 2nd semester credits: 16]

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liplaw
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby liplaw » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:44 am

Georgiana: If you apply early decision, you must accept even if they don't offer you money, right?

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:54 am

puppins wrote:
shadowfrost000 wrote:I noticed Penn has a number of 3 year joint degree programs, including a JD/MBA. I assume this means you get both degrees in 3 years. Do you know anyone that has done this and is it a lot of extra work/stress for a 1L?

What is the 1L course schedule like? I saw your post earlier about approximate time per course per week but I'm not sure if you already addressed which courses are taken in which semester first year. Are electives generally less intensive than the core curriculum? How much flexibility is there to take electives, both first year and beyond?


Also, can someone add to this when and where (and how?) clinical courses come into play? Can you be involved in them without taking the course for credit, are you expected to take several, etc?

Well there three main ways to get hands on experience (outside of summer work) while in law school:
1) Clinical Courses: These are basically run by the law school "law firm" in Silverman Hall. This seems to be what you are referring to above. Most people take a clinic in their 2L or 3L year but they each have small enrollments. The clinics offered are: Child Advocacy, Supreme Court, Legislative, Civil Practice, Criminal Defense, Entrepreneurship, Mediation, and Transnational. Depending on the clinic you may or may not get courtroom experience (Civil and Criminal both do). You register for the clinics just like you would a normal class and hope that you get in. You can work in the clinic over the summer but I don't think there is a way to do it during the semester without doing it for credit (because there are so many people that are trying to sign up so there's never really a shortage). I don't think there is a limit to the number you can take, but preference is given to people who have not taken a clinic yet and I don't think you can do two in one semester.
2) Pro Bono Clinics: Most of these are student run (and great!). You can get involved in pro bono projects during 1L and most of them stop meeting a week or two before finals start so it won't conflict. I personally got involved with the Custody and Support Assistance Clinic which runs out of an office in Philadelphia Legal Assistance. We meet with clients, draft legal documents, and if we want (and get certified) we can go to court and actually represent clients with one of the PLA attorneys. Its a great program and probably the best experience I've had in law school. It meets 3 hours per week with a bit of drafting work outside of the office so its not a major time suck, but I've learned a lot and have the opportunity to interact with real live lawyers haha. Other pro bono clinics I can think of are employment rights, housing rights, immigrant rights, and prisoner's education. These are pretty easy to sign up for, you just have to send an email at the beginning of the semester and then show up for training.
3) Externships: I don't know much about externships but personally I think they sound better than clinics because you're in a real working environment not an insulated law school clinic and you are making contacts outside of the law school. The law school offers externships with Community Legal Services, the Death Penalty Federal Defender, PA Human Relations Commission, Philadelphia DA, Philadelphia Legal Assistance, Civil Division of the US Attorney's office, and the Women's Law Project. Each of these is 4-7 credits depending on the amount of time you devote.

Edit for bolding

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:55 am

liplaw wrote:Georgiana: If you apply early decision, you must accept even if they don't offer you money, right?

Yep, thats the unfortunate side effect of applying ED and getting the admissions boost.

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby puppleberry finn » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:57 am

you and biggamejames have really been terribly helpful! thank you for taking the time

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:01 pm

puppins wrote:you and biggamejames have really been terribly helpful! thank you for taking the time

Quite welcome :)

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MC Southstar
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby MC Southstar » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:07 pm

puppins wrote:you and biggamejames have really been terribly helpful! thank you for taking the time


+1 thank you for overlooking my harry potter blasphemy.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:10 pm

shadowfrost000 wrote:
puppins wrote:you and biggamejames have really been terribly helpful! thank you for taking the time


+1 thank you for overlooking my harry potter blasphemy.

Yes, I think I can work through the damage you caused.

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tintin
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby tintin » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:00 pm

is philadelphia generally a pet-friendly city? for example, is finding housing that allows dogs and cats fairly easy? are there a lot of parks that dogs can be taken to?

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:21 pm

tintin wrote:is philadelphia generally a pet-friendly city? for example, is finding housing that allows dogs and cats fairly easy? are there a lot of parks that dogs can be taken to?

Quite pet friendly IMO. Lots of dog parks and most buildings allow dogs (some for a fee), just make sure you're thinking about it when you are apartment shopping :)

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violaboy
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby violaboy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:58 pm

Plane tickets and hotel for ASW! Very excited!

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby puppleberry finn » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:59 pm

violaboy wrote:Plane tickets and hotel for ASW! Very excited!


oooh where are you staying?




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