Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
law_hippo
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby law_hippo » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:37 pm

Did 1Ls have a hard time finding a job this summer?

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:41 pm

law_hippo wrote:Did 1Ls have a hard time finding a job this summer?


Everyone has a job.

Most people don't have a shiny well paid SA gig... but most people are being paid ~$10/hr for work whether through work study or something else.

There are some people working for firms, mostly in smaller markets, there are people working in DC for gov., there are people here in Philly working in the clinics or for profs, there are people working for judges, there are people doing PI.

I doubt most people are doing what they "want" but everyone is getting some sort of experience which is really all that matters 1L summer.

random248
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby random248 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:48 pm

I'll jump in here too. I am pretty similar to Georgiana except am trying for NY/DC for OCI, and am not in the IP group. Otherwise, we are basically the same person, except that her study materials tend to be much prettier than mine.

law_hippo wrote:Why did you choose Penn?

I visited and loved it. Everyone I met was really nice and the law school seemed really conducive to a comfortable, cozy atmosphere (and I still feel this way). I was pretty set on being in a city, and I think that Philly is a good place to live as a student. I also liked that the Penn campus as a whole was really nice and that you feel like you are on a college campus even though it is in a city. I also liked the class size -- 250 is small enough that you can get to know most people and perhaps don't have as much of the recruitment competition as slightly bigger schools, but big enough that it doesn't feel like high school (err, most of the time :)). Also, realistically, I am interested in going to a firm in NY or DC, and Penn places as well as just about anyone for that (i.e. if I had been interested in academia, I may have kept applications in at Columbia/Chicago)

Chuch wrote:what do you think about this?
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=79918&p=1862179&hilit=i+wouldn%27t+worry+about+it#p1862179

specifically
Solerpower wrote:The law school building is fantastic and its just beautiful.

Agreed. One building is really pretty and old-looking (though they keep the technology and stuff up-to-date) and the others are more modern-looking. The classrooms are really nice, and the courtyard between the four buildings makes it really cozy. One of the buildings is kind of outdated, but we don't really have classes in it and it is being re-built into a gorgeous building that I wish would be finished before I graduate!

thisguy456 wrote:Any general advice you can give about the admissions process from an admitted student? Is it basically a numbers game like everywhere else? Does a desire to stay in Philly after school help?

How is OCI shaping up this year compared to years past?

How does Penn do in DC (I've heard it just does OK)?

Honestly, I can't say I really know how admissions decisions are made. I'm guessing numbers play a large role but, beyond that, I can't say I know what the admissions committee is looking for.

OCI is definitely really, really uncertain this year. I mean, we have lots of firms coming, but we have no idea what hiring will be like. It's a bit worrisome, but hopefully we'll end up okay (fingers crossed!). As Georgiana said, I think this is the case everywhere. I am quite interested in DC so have looked into that. As Georgiana said, I do think a lot of people self-select to NYC here. For those of us who are interested in DC, though, I think placement is quite good. A ton of DC firms recruit from here and, from what I can tell, standards are not tougher than any of our peer schools. Hopefully I'm right about this! That said, it seems like UVA places more people there overall, which I expect is also a self-selection thing.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:51 pm

random248 wrote:I'll jump in here too. I am pretty similar to Georgiana except am trying for NY/DC for OCI, and am not in the IP group. Otherwise, we are basically the same person, except that her study materials tend to be much prettier than mine.


Finalllllly you come :roll:

Goodness, you'd think you were busy talking to me on Gchat or something.

And I do pride myself on my badass formatting skills... both for outlines and for legal writing. Sad but true.

law_hippo
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby law_hippo » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:55 pm

What has been the biggest surprise so far during law school? Preferably something positive, but whatever.

random248
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby random248 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:56 pm

SteelersandGators wrote:How do you see the Big 10 shaping up this season?

I think we're looking at a repeat of last year (inevitably leading our law school to become a T6 again!) as long as Joe Pa can keep 'em together.

markymark wrote:Kind of a random question, but I just noticed that we have school on the day before Thanksgiving and I fully intend on going back to LA for that holiday. Do profs cancel class that day or otherwise, do people skip class (that day or ever)?

Most of my classes were canceled that day but, if not, they were recorded because a lot of people went away.

law_hippo wrote:Do most people study in groups or alone? Have you changed your study habits after your first couple semesters?

Do you find the faculty particularly engaged with the students (the TLS profile says lunches with profs are mandatory), or is that overrated?


I studied alone for the most part, but had e-mail chains going with some friends to ask each other questions, share outlines, share our answers to practice exams, etc. I'm just not one for group studying, and I don't think many in my section were, though I know some people who did the study group thing. I think it's hard to keep them efficient and useful, but some people manage to do it, and they can be particularly helpful for exam practice (especially where you don't have sample answers).

Ooh, missed the faculty question. I went out for lunch with all but one of my 1L professors. It is definitely tradition, though not mandatory to do if you don't want to. It was good because it allowed us to get to know them beyond just their lectures, and made it easier to approach them through the semester. Also, some of them gave us some great advice.

(Note: leaving the housing costs answer because I think Georgiana pretty much summed it up. There is a ton of variation, but no need to break the bank if you don't want to.)
Last edited by random248 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:58 pm

law_hippo wrote:What has been the biggest surprise so far during law school? Preferably something positive, but whatever.


Appreciation for the Socratic Method :lol:

Edit: Seriously though, if you have a prof that does it well, it really is helpful.

Grades are also always a big surprise...

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Capercaillie
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Capercaillie » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:04 pm

Georgiana wrote:
Thanks for the welcome!

Let me know if there's anything I can help you with.

-G


This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:06 pm

Capercaillie wrote:
Georgiana wrote:
Thanks for the welcome!

Let me know if there's anything I can help you with.

-G


This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.


Oh dear. :roll:

I apologize for my terrible grammar. Friends?

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lostmyname
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby lostmyname » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:09 pm

Seems like Penn threads are popular targets for grammar trolls to criticize. Check out the last post on this page: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68792&start=25

Thanks for taking questions Georgiana; I'll probably see you in the fall.

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scaredstiff165
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby scaredstiff165 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:13 pm

Although I will not be attending Penn this fall, I will be in the area (Villanova). I was wondering if you could take a guess at the class of 2012's post-1L summer employment prospects? I'm terribly worried that Temple and Villanova students will find it VERY tough to land any summer gigs since Penn is usually the go-to school in the area. What are your thoughts, judging from your and your classmates' job search?

Thanks!
Last edited by scaredstiff165 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

random248
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby random248 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:13 pm

plastic-cup wrote:What was orientation like and how many of the "extra" events did you do? Thanks. Also, do you find that at orientation people are reserved--taking it all in and getting a lay of the land--or outgoing?


I LOVED ORIENTATION. Sorry, had to capslock it. I went to a lot of the social events, and it was super fun. I agree with Georgiana that, if you can't make it out to them, it isn't a big deal -- you will still get to know people once school starts. Also, I definitely didn't go to them all, since there were other settling/moving in errands to run. However, if you can get out to at least some of them, I'd recommend it. People are excited and the weather is generally nice and the events are fun... it's a great time to get to know your classmates and the 2Ls who are leading the events, and one of the only times when you can all hang out without any school work lingering in the background. I found people to be pretty outgoing (read: not nearly as socially awkward as you'd think law students would be!), but not overwhelming.

As it happens, I met Georgiana at orientation, so obviously she is not considering how instrumental it was to her making awesome friends.

puppins wrote:I know you said that Penn students tend to self-select away from Philly, but do those who wish to stay in town find it difficult? Are there a decent number of local firms at OCI?

I'm basically going to echo that, generally, people can stay in Philly if they have a solid reason for wanting to stay (e.g. ties to the area). Good point about Wilmington, too -- it seems to be in less trouble than the Philly market right now, and is really close. There are quite a few Philly firms coming to OCI but, um, I don't know if that will be the case come late August. That's more just that hiring in Philly firms is going to be incredibly low/maybe nonexistent this year, and not that they don't recruit from Penn.

law_hippo wrote:Did 1Ls have a hard time finding a job this summer?

Those who focused on trying to get firm jobs ended up with a pretty drawn out summer job search because, realistically, there just weren't many 1L SA positions this year. I do know some people working at firms, mostly in secondary markets. Otherwise, people ended up with a range of things, but everyone seems to have gotten something legal by the time summer came around, usually with some sort of funding.

law_hippo wrote:What has been the biggest surprise so far during law school? Preferably something positive, but whatever.

Probably that 1L doesn't actually take that much time, and that I went out more frequently last year than I probably ever did before law school (note: and this is indeed a comment on 1L and not a suggestion that I was antisocial before law school!).

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:16 pm

lostmyname wrote:Seems like Penn threads are popular targets for grammar trolls to criticize. Check out the last post on this page: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68792&start=25

Thanks for taking questions Georgiana; I'll probably see you in the fall.


Sad! Both the lengthy criticism and the typos.

I'm usually pretty good about writing like I have an education (yes, even on message boards) but the "don't end a sentence with a preposition" rule has never been one I obey. Legal writing made me better at recognizing passive voice though!

See you in the fall! Hope you're excited for 1L (I'm way too excited for 2L).

random248
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby random248 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:19 pm

I don't know about Georgiana, but I am typing quickly to respond to things and don't really care if there are errors in my writing in this particular venue. While I agree that it is irritating to read posts in the rare case of a truly incomprehensible post, I think that otherwise monitoring grammar is kind of obnoxious. Goodness.

scaredstiff165 wrote:Although I will not be attending Penn this fall, I will be in the area (Villanova). I was wondering if you could take a guess at the class of 2012's post-1L summer employment prospects? I'm terribly worried that Temple and Villanova students will find it VERY tough to land any summer gigs since Penn is usually the go-to school in the area. What are your thoughts, judging from your and your classmates' job search?

Thanks!

fwiw, I know that many classmates are working with a mix of Penn/Temple/Villanova students this summer (in judges' chambers and so forth). This suggests that there were plenty of opportunities to go around even this year, but I don't really know much beyond that. Good luck -- I'm sure you'll find something that will give you good experience.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:20 pm

scaredstiff165 wrote:Although I will not be attending Penn this fall, I will be in the area (Villanova). I was wondering if you could take a guess at the class of 2012's post-1L summer employment prospects? I'm terribly worried that Temple and Villanova students will find it VERY tough to land any summer gigs since Penn is usually the go-to school in the area. What are your thoughts, judging from your and your classmates' job search?

Thanks!


This is tough...

I think that finding an SA gig as a 1L next summer will be practically impossible (for most law students including the top schools). There will be too many 2L's willing to take ANYTHING that pays well and is at a firm.

There will always be PI and work through your school to fall back on, but you'll have to seek it out. Hopefully by your 2L summer the market will at least be stable and firms will know what they are doing and what they need to do.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:21 pm

random248 wrote:I don't know about Georgiana, but I am typing quickly to respond to things and don't really care if there are errors in my writing in this particular venue. While I agree that it is irritating to read posts in the rare case of a truly incomprehensible post, I think that otherwise monitoring grammar is kind of obnoxious. Goodness.


I prefer to be both quick and precise :roll:

random248
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby random248 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:25 pm

Georgiana wrote:I prefer to be both quick and precise :roll:

Now, now. Stop being so uncollegial to me. I am sacrificing the occasional check on an incorrect grammar habit or two, not precision!

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:28 pm

random248 wrote:
Georgiana wrote:I prefer to be both quick and precise :roll:

Now, now. Stop being so uncollegial to me. I am sacrificing the occasional check on an incorrect grammar habit or two, not precision!


Lets not fight on both Gchat and TLS... pick a forum :)

You know I'm just teasing. Don't take it personally. Your writing is perfection :D

random248
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby random248 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:31 pm

Georgiana wrote:Lets not fight on both Gchat and TLS... pick a forum :)

You know I'm just teasing. Don't take it personally. Your writing is perfection :D


Perfection is a noun, whereas your sentence required an adjective. HTH.

(Note to others: We are joking, because we are bored and the questions stopped. haha)

law_hippo
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby law_hippo » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:33 pm

Not to sidetrack this exchange, but...

How many people do you know that are hoping/planning on doing a clerkship after they graduate?

In general, do people most people tend to be biglaw oriented?

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:33 pm

random248 wrote:
Georgiana wrote:Lets not fight on both Gchat and TLS... pick a forum :)

You know I'm just teasing. Don't take it personally. Your writing is perfection :D


Perfection is a noun, whereas your sentence required an adjective. HTH.

(Note to others: We are joking, because we are bored and the questions stopped. haha)


Not if I was using a metaphor... comparison without the use of like or as... I'm sure you remember those. <3

random248
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby random248 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:36 pm

Georgiana wrote:Not if I was using a metaphor... comparison without the use of like or as... I'm sure you remember those. <3


I have decided that it is categorically incorrect to use a metaphor likening a noun to another noun where there latter is simply used in place of an equally efficient adjective form of the same word. None of that! None!

edit: My goodness, we are boring people today.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:37 pm

law_hippo wrote:Not to sidetrack this exchange, but...

How many people do you know that are hoping/planning on doing a clerkship after they graduate?

In general, do people most people tend to be biglaw oriented?


YAY! Back to things that matter...

I'm not sure many of us have thought too much about clerkships. I think its one of those "see where your grades are when the decision comes around." If people have the grades they probably at least apply (that's my plan).

When people come in as 1L's a lot of them claim to want to do PI or government, but when they are thinking about making 40-70k versus 140-160k I think greed wins out with most of them. With debt piling up I can't blame them for it. There are always people that follow through and do PI and gov, but Penn is definitely into Biglaw.

bmdubs
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby bmdubs » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:37 pm

Do you know any students that transferred into Penn/ what schools and stats they came from??

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:39 pm

bmdubs wrote:Do you know any students that transferred into Penn/ what schools and stats they came from??


Random this is sooooo your question... I haven't a clue but she knows at least a few people.




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