Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:16 pm

You can get the same law school education by reading just people's outlines. Being "useful" shouldn't really be in the calculus of why you take a class.

remainsofthebay
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby remainsofthebay » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:21 pm

Do many people live in the U-City area? What are the best places to live if you're not going to be a thurs-sat night rager, but still want to go out occasionally? We're married with no kids, still love to go out and have a good time, but probably a few years too old to be crashing in a living room with 10 other people after a finals party.

We're looking at the area near Clark Park, just wanted to make sure it was a nice area (nice meaning safe, not expensive or something)

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby JamesDean1955 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:56 pm

r6_philly wrote:You can get the same law school education by reading just people's outlines. Being "useful" shouldn't really be in the calculus of why you take a class.


Technically, I meant "useful" in the way that evidence is "useful" for someone gunning for a spot in a prosecutor's office, or corporations for someone trying to go into corporate M&A work (in that employers will want to see it/react favorably to seeing it).

I realize that the material learned in class isn't going to matter/help much (if at all) after you graduate. The same can be said of material learned in most professional/technical disciplines, really.

westphillybandr
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby westphillybandr » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:02 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
westphillybandr wrote:There are definitely gunners and unpleasant people. But most people are friendly.

Of course. I was just saying that our gunners tend to merely be "pompous" and "annoying," as opposed to toxic and sociopathic.

My comment wasn't directed towards yours I was just adding my two cents. My reference to gunners was to toxic and cutthroat people.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:47 pm

JamesDean1955 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:You can get the same law school education by reading just people's outlines. Being "useful" shouldn't really be in the calculus of why you take a class.


Technically, I meant "useful" in the way that evidence is "useful" for someone gunning for a spot in a prosecutor's office, or corporations for someone trying to go into corporate M&A work (in that employers will want to see it/react favorably to seeing it).

I realize that the material learned in class isn't going to matter/help much (if at all) after you graduate. The same can be said of material learned in most professional/technical disciplines, really.


I would even say it isn't really "useful" in that way. Classes can signal interest when you don't have any other apparent evidence. Other than the "essential" (but not required) courses like evidence and corporations taking an not taking any class isn't going to make any different IMHO. Yes you may turn some heads if you want to do bankruptcy work without having taken any corporate or bankruptcy classes, but OCI occurs before you can take those classes (that should show you how much employers care about classes. Grades are what they are after).

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby JamesDean1955 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:27 am

r6_philly wrote:
JamesDean1955 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:You can get the same law school education by reading just people's outlines. Being "useful" shouldn't really be in the calculus of why you take a class.


Technically, I meant "useful" in the way that evidence is "useful" for someone gunning for a spot in a prosecutor's office, or corporations for someone trying to go into corporate M&A work (in that employers will want to see it/react favorably to seeing it).

I realize that the material learned in class isn't going to matter/help much (if at all) after you graduate. The same can be said of material learned in most professional/technical disciplines, really.


I would even say it isn't really "useful" in that way. Classes can signal interest when you don't have any other apparent evidence. Other than the "essential" (but not required) courses like evidence and corporations taking an not taking any class isn't going to make any different IMHO. Yes you may turn some heads if you want to do bankruptcy work without having taken any corporate or bankruptcy classes, but OCI occurs before you can take those classes (that should show you how much employers care about classes. Grades are what they are after).


Well, as far as my evidence --> prosecutor's office example, would that still be valid as PI jobs usually hire in 3L year, after you have had ample opportunity to take a variety of classes (and due to the fact that PI jobs care about things other than just grades)?

Also, while OCI occurs the beginning of 2L, getting hired from your summer associate gig would occur 2L summer. Are employers not going to take a look at your 2L transcript during your summer associate job before making you a permanent offer?

SportsFan
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby SportsFan » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:32 am

JamesDean1955 wrote:
Nelson wrote:
jtabustos wrote:Wasn'g sure where to post this question.

I was just wondering if class attendance is required in law school? Is roll taken (officially or unofficially)?

And if a person does miss class is the material learnable on one's own? ...feel free to add other considerations to my question guys. Thanks!

A bunch of my professors posted recordings of every class so missing one isn't a big inconvenience. Your professor will never even notice in most classes unless they make a list of cold calls before each class and happen to pick you on a day you aren't there.


Is this true for a lot of 1L classes? If so that's pretty awesome in case you miss class or something in class.

Also, I thought one of the benefits of attending Penn was that Property isn't a required course? What are y'all doing taking it as an elective??! :lol:

I'm taking property since I've heard its pretty important on the bar exam. A lot of people are taking IP (intellectual property) instead, though. If I had to pick a benefit of Penn in terms of classes, I think ungraded LW is the biggest benefit, by far.
PennBull wrote:
JamesDean1955 wrote:Also, I thought one of the benefits of attending Penn was that Property isn't a required course? What are y'all doing taking it as an elective??! :lol:


Because there can be a shitload of old outlines, plus a professor who has a standard curriculum that you can ask upperclassmen about.

If I was a 1L I would've done the same thing.

You'd think, but the professor made the class (and the exam, mostly) a lot different from in the past because now we're in our 2nd semester instead of our first, so we should be doing more than just spotting issues (basically). That said, it's still just property.
remainsofthebay wrote:Do many people live in the U-City area? What are the best places to live if you're not going to be a thurs-sat night rager, but still want to go out occasionally? We're married with no kids, still love to go out and have a good time, but probably a few years too old to be crashing in a living room with 10 other people after a finals party.

We're looking at the area near Clark Park, just wanted to make sure it was a nice area (nice meaning safe, not expensive or something)

A lot of people live in university city (including myself). Generally, its safe (I don't know anyone who has had any crime problems so far) as long as you use some basic street smarts. Most bars and places to go out will be in center city, though (especially if you're trying to avoid the "undergrad" vibe of a lot of places in university city). That said, its not hard to get from university city to center city (the trolley runs down Baltimore Avenue, right by Clark Park).

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:45 pm

JamesDean1955 wrote:Also, while OCI occurs the beginning of 2L, getting hired from your summer associate gig would occur 2L summer. Are employers not going to take a look at your 2L transcript during your summer associate job before making you a permanent offer?

They're only going to care about your performance at the firm that summer (unless your grades completely fall off the face of the earth your classes won't matter).

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:51 pm

Nelson wrote:
JamesDean1955 wrote:Also, while OCI occurs the beginning of 2L, getting hired from your summer associate gig would occur 2L summer. Are employers not going to take a look at your 2L transcript during your summer associate job before making you a permanent offer?

They're only going to care about your performance at the firm that summer (unless your grades completely fall off the face of the earth your classes won't matter).


Yeah, they're going to look to make sure you didn't pull straight Cs, but for the most part you're getting offered unless you're an obvious detriment to the firm (and, even then, you'd probably get cold offered).

Keep in mind this is for "standard" biglaw hiring. Smaller shops may care a bit more about this or that. I don't know.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby JamesDean1955 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:20 am

Here's another OCI questions for you wise Penn students (I know this has been answered before in general on TLS, just wanted to get your take on it): Does language fluency in French or Spanish help at all at OCI? I mean, do you essentially need to be a native speaker, capable of learning legal terminology in French and Spanish, for this to be much of a boost?

I am about as fluent as one can be in French for a non-native speaker, a little less so when it comes to Spanish, but I've gotten a little rusty and just wondering if it's worth it to bother brushing up on these before 2L OCI?

Bob-Loblaw 1
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Bob-Loblaw 1 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:54 pm

I've seen it said both ways on these forums, so I was wondering if there was someone who 100% knew: Is legal writing/research going to be graded next year? Or is it still not completely certain as to whether or not the change will take place?

Also, I realize this is very different depending on the person, but do people go out/drink/socialize a decent amount at Penn?

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:56 pm

Bob-Loblaw 1 wrote:Also, I realize this is very different depending on the person, but do people go out/drink/socialize a decent amount at Penn?

This is very different depending on the person. Some people do, some people don't.

SportsFan
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby SportsFan » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:03 pm

Bob-Loblaw 1 wrote:I've seen it said both ways on these forums, so I was wondering if there was someone who 100% knew: Is legal writing/research going to be graded next year? Or is it still not completely certain as to whether or not the change will take place?

Also, I realize this is very different depending on the person, but do people go out/drink/socialize a decent amount at Penn?

Someone posted a few weeks ago in this thread that its NOT going to be graded next year (and trust me when I say that is AWESOME; I can't even imagine having a graded legal writing...).

As for socializing, as nelson says, it definitely depends on the person. I know plenty of people who go to pretty much every bar review and who always go out on the weekends, and some who don't go out much at all.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:05 pm

Legal writing is most certainly NOT going to be graded next year.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:05 pm

JamesDean1955 wrote:I am about as fluent as one can be in French for a non-native speaker, a little less so when it comes to Spanish, but I've gotten a little rusty and just wondering if it's worth it to bother brushing up on these before 2L OCI?


I would follow the advice of whatever OCI threads you've read (and be sure to get a good sample size of opinions). Penn's OCI is no different.

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jumpin munkey
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby jumpin munkey » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:37 pm

Hey guys,

Do you know if most students get health insurance through Penn? The rate for that seems to currently be $3500 a year. Just wondering if there are better deals to be had that fulfill their requirements. Looking over their requirements for alternate plans, I'm thinking the answer is going to be no, but I don't know. No dental coverage is annoying, as I have that covered through work at the moment, but I'm guessing that's standard for student plans?

Thanks for any help you can give.

ETA I'm guessing many students can now be covered under their parents now since they're under 26, but I'm 27.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:42 pm

jumpin munkey wrote:Hey guys,

Do you know if most students get health insurance through Penn? The rate for that seems to currently be $3500 a year. Just wondering if there are better deals to be had that fulfill their requirements. Looking over their requirements for alternate plans, I'm thinking the answer is going to be no, but I don't know. No dental coverage is annoying, as I have that covered through work at the moment, but I'm guessing that's standard for student plans?

Thanks for any help you can give.


It is very hard to get a plan that meets all their requirements. The only individual plan that I found from IBX was more expensive than the Penn plan. My old employer group plan easily met the requirements, but I got kicked off. If you can stay on a parent plan which is based on a group plan you might be okay. Otherwise you may be stuck with the Penn plan.

ETA: if you use your own plan, you have to pay a clinic fee (in the hundreds, forgot exact figure) so you have to consider that in the cost.

stacy
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby stacy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:04 pm

Is there any advantage to being a Pennsylvania resident in any way?

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:11 pm

stacy wrote:Is there any advantage to being a Pennsylvania resident in any way?


When it comes to attending, not that I can think of. State tax is lower for your summer earnings, that's about it.

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Sheffield
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Sheffield » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:27 pm

jumpin munkey wrote:Hey guys,

Do you know if most students get health insurance through Penn? The rate for that seems to currently be $3500 a year. Just wondering if there are better deals to be had that fulfill their requirements.


Aetna has a plan that is approved and a third the cost of the Penn plan. If you are run over by a bus the plan will likely cover the cost of a box of band aids.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:36 pm

Sheffield wrote:
jumpin munkey wrote:Hey guys,

Do you know if most students get health insurance through Penn? The rate for that seems to currently be $3500 a year. Just wondering if there are better deals to be had that fulfill their requirements.


Aetna has a plan that is approved and a third the cost of the Penn plan. If you are run over by a bus the plan will likely cover the cost of a box of band aids.


Are you on this? They would not approve any of the Aetna plan that I submitted.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:32 pm

jumpin munkey wrote:Hey guys,

Do you know if most students get health insurance through Penn? The rate for that seems to currently be $3500 a year. Just wondering if there are better deals to be had that fulfill their requirements. Looking over their requirements for alternate plans, I'm thinking the answer is going to be no, but I don't know. No dental coverage is annoying, as I have that covered through work at the moment, but I'm guessing that's standard for student plans?

Thanks for any help you can give.

ETA I'm guessing many students can now be covered under their parents now since they're under 26, but I'm 27.

I just paid for the student plan. You can add dental if you want for ~150 more. I did.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby JamesDean1955 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:12 pm

$3,500.00 for a year seems like an awesome deal. If you wanted to purchase a bare bones individual plan in NY from a reputable company (assuming you aren't impoverished), it would be around $800-$1,200 a month, and that's for a high deductible plan.

If I remember correctly, the Penn plan is not high-deductible.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:32 pm

JamesDean1955 wrote:$3,500.00 for a year seems like an awesome deal. If you wanted to purchase a bare bones individual plan in NY from a reputable company (assuming you aren't impoverished), it would be around $800-$1,200 a month, and that's for a high deductible plan.

If I remember correctly, the Penn plan is not high-deductible.


You have to go to student health first to anything. Then they refer you which always cost you a fee. I had the same doctor for years now I can't go there. For me (PA) comp plans would cost 1000 less.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:38 pm

r6_philly wrote:
JamesDean1955 wrote:$3,500.00 for a year seems like an awesome deal. If you wanted to purchase a bare bones individual plan in NY from a reputable company (assuming you aren't impoverished), it would be around $800-$1,200 a month, and that's for a high deductible plan.

If I remember correctly, the Penn plan is not high-deductible.


You have to go to student health first to anything. Then they refer you which always cost you a fee. I had the same doctor for years now I can't go there. For me (PA) comp plans would cost 1000 less.


Just as an anecdote, I shredded my knee and got it reconstructed, and the total cost for me out of pocket was about $800. And that's only that high because I hadn't used my deductible for anything yet (pretty sure the deductible is $400).




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