Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
westphillybandr
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby westphillybandr » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:37 pm

There are definitely gunners and unpleasant people. But most people are friendly.

HeavenWood
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:56 pm

westphillybandr wrote:There are definitely gunners and unpleasant people. But most people are friendly.

Of course. I was just saying that our gunners tend to merely be "pompous" and "annoying," as opposed to toxic and sociopathic.

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:49 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
westphillybandr wrote:There are definitely gunners and unpleasant people. But most people are friendly.

Of course. I was just saying that our gunners tend to merely be "pompous" and "annoying," as opposed to toxic and sociopathic.


Dunno man, I think most true gunners at Penn are of the stealth variety.

As in "nah brah, I can't go out for beers tonight, I've got to go for a run." [Goes home, does 5 hours of reading.]

Or

"Man Veyron, that test just killed me. I should have studied more. Damn that class was so hard. I'd be happy to pull out a B." [actually studied for three weeks straight, will receive an A]

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bluepenguin
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby bluepenguin » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:12 pm

Veyron wrote:My understanding, at least the year I applied, was that it was binding for the year. In order to get out of it, you would have to choose not to matriculate anywhere that cycle. The next cycle you would be free to apply wherever (although obviously, the school you bailed on would be out absent extraordinary circumstances).


I understand this year's language to mean that you have to matriculate at Penn at some point, presumably the next year.

I certify that I have read the above and understand the stated policies and practices that govern the Early Decision program at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, and I wish to be considered as an Early Decision candidate. If accepted under Early Decision, I will matriculate at the University of Pennsylvania Law School. I agree to withdraw all my applications to other law schools and to refrain from initiating any new applications if and when accepted to the University of Pennsylvania as an Early Decision applicant. I also understand that I am not permitted to enter a binding Early Decision agreement with any other law school and that my failure to honor these commitments will result in the University of Pennsylvania revoking its offer of admission.


Looks pretty straightforward to me, but I'm not a lawyer.

HeavenWood
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:53 pm

Veyron wrote:Dunno man, I think most true gunners at Penn are of the stealth variety.

As in "nah brah, I can't go out for beers tonight, I've got to go for a run." [Goes home, does 5 hours of reading.]

Or

"Man Veyron, that test just killed me. I should have studied more. Damn that class was so hard. I'd be happy to pull out a B." [actually studied for three weeks straight, will receive an A]

Unless they're legit trying to pull humble brags, I don't consider those types to be gunners. I wouldn't say the prototypical "gunner-ish" types are prevalent, but they do exist.

POTUS2044
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby POTUS2044 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:01 am

r6_philly wrote:
OutCold wrote:I'm probably among the most detached from school social circles, but even I am friendly with a huge number of people. You'll get to know your 1L section well, your cohort even better, and even more people through journal, pro bono projects, and various other activities, small seminars, etc. You don't have to go to outside events like bar review to make friends at the law school.


That's not what I am talking about. One can make plenty of friends, but one are not warmly welcomed into every circle if one doesn't not appear to fit in.


r6_philly wrote:
Veyron wrote:I haven't run into many groups at the law school I wasn't at least happy to have a casual conversation with.


Can't make the same statement. Not that anyone is rude or anything, but some people lack the interest to have casual conversations depending on who you are. Remember I was just rebutting the "VERY friendly" comment made by someone many quotes ago.


r6, do you think being left out may have a lot to do with your age? like a lot of kids entering at 22-24 may not be as comfortable around very non-trad students, due to a lack of relatability or whatever? Or would you say it is something else

stacy
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby stacy » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:55 pm

bluepenguin wrote:
Veyron wrote:My understanding, at least the year I applied, was that it was binding for the year. In order to get out of it, you would have to choose not to matriculate anywhere that cycle. The next cycle you would be free to apply wherever (although obviously, the school you bailed on would be out absent extraordinary circumstances).


I understand this year's language to mean that you have to matriculate at Penn at some point, presumably the next year.

I certify that I have read the above and understand the stated policies and practices that govern the Early Decision program at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, and I wish to be considered as an Early Decision candidate. If accepted under Early Decision, I will matriculate at the University of Pennsylvania Law School. I agree to withdraw all my applications to other law schools and to refrain from initiating any new applications if and when accepted to the University of Pennsylvania as an Early Decision applicant. I also understand that I am not permitted to enter a binding Early Decision agreement with any other law school and that my failure to honor these commitments will result in the University of Pennsylvania revoking its offer of admission.


Looks pretty straightforward to me, but I'm not a lawyer.

Neither am I, but I spoke to some friends who are and was informed that a contract is invalid without specific dates. So it is not possible to hold a student to this ED forever.

Their trick is I believe that the law schools work together and do not accept another's ED student.

What I do not know is if they continue that courtesy indefinitely or just that year.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:35 pm

POTUS2044 wrote:
r6, do you think being left out may have a lot to do with your age? like a lot of kids entering at 22-24 may not be as comfortable around very non-trad students, due to a lack of relatability or whatever? Or would you say it is something else


Most people think I am late 20's-30. It isn't an age thing.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:51 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
westphillybandr wrote:There are definitely gunners and unpleasant people. But most people are friendly.

Of course. I was just saying that our gunners tend to merely be "pompous" and "annoying," as opposed to toxic and sociopathic.


They don't really bother me unless they engage in 5 minute one-sided conversations with the professor in class. I think gunners are friendly to each others though. Like I said, if you fit in, you fit in.

SportsFan
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby SportsFan » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:18 am

HeavenWood wrote:
Veyron wrote:Dunno man, I think most true gunners at Penn are of the stealth variety.

As in "nah brah, I can't go out for beers tonight, I've got to go for a run." [Goes home, does 5 hours of reading.]

Or

"Man Veyron, that test just killed me. I should have studied more. Damn that class was so hard. I'd be happy to pull out a B." [actually studied for three weeks straight, will receive an A]

Unless they're legit trying to pull humble brags, I don't consider those types to be gunners. I wouldn't say the prototypical "gunner-ish" types are prevalent, but they do exist.

Yeah, I'd say there are (or were, rather) 2-3 of the stereotypical 'gunners' in my section, but they were never that bad at all, and have kind of faded away as the school year has gone on. Was definitely never as bad as some of the horror stories I've read on here, thankfully. I do think there are a lot of secret/stealth gunners though. Like, I remember last semester no one really talked about doing practice tests (most people said they hadn't even looked at them until 2-3 weeks before finals) then a day or 2 before the exam, pretty much everyone had done every single old exam (and our professor had like 10 old exams). Typing this up, it doesn't seem as weird as it did at the time, but it seemed really weird how it seemed like everyone went from complaining about having 3+ hours of reading every night to suddenly having completed almost a dozen practice tests.

SportsFan
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby SportsFan » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:23 am

Does anyone know how the curves work for the electives? Lately the rumor seems to be that they don't have to follow the 1L curve, but I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how it worked. I guess I could just go to the registrar and check the old grade distributions, but I'm lazy and this is easier. :lol:

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:29 am

SportsFan wrote:Does anyone know how the curves work for the electives? Lately the rumor seems to be that they don't have to follow the 1L curve, but I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how it worked. I guess I could just go to the registrar and check the old grade distributions, but I'm lazy and this is easier. :lol:


Yeah it seems like this rumor happens every year, which is why I signed up for one of the "easier" classes (which turned out to be false, and it was my worst class and I promptly got a B). But your classes will all have a curve unless it is very small, and then I think the professor is allowed some leeway. Are you in that Law in American Life class? Isn't there only like 20 kids in it haha

SportsFan
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby SportsFan » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:40 am

PennBull wrote:
SportsFan wrote:Does anyone know how the curves work for the electives? Lately the rumor seems to be that they don't have to follow the 1L curve, but I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how it worked. I guess I could just go to the registrar and check the old grade distributions, but I'm lazy and this is easier. :lol:


Yeah it seems like this rumor happens every year, which is why I signed up for one of the "easier" classes (which turned out to be false, and it was my worst class and I promptly got a B). But your classes will all have a curve unless it is very small, and then I think the professor is allowed some leeway. Are you in that Law in American Life class? Isn't there only like 20 kids in it haha

I'm in property and another elective I don't wanna name so I don't risk outing myself haha. So they're basically all on the typical curve? Darn. Oh well.

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jtabustos
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby jtabustos » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:25 pm

Wasn'g sure where to post this question.

I was just wondering if class attendance is required in law school? Is roll taken (officially or unofficially)?

And if a person does miss class is the material learnable on one's own? ...feel free to add other considerations to my question guys. Thanks!

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OutCold
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby OutCold » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:26 pm

They don't have to follow the 1L curve exactly, but I don't think many deviate far from it. One of the electives I took last year wound up having a worse curve. Just my luck.

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OutCold
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby OutCold » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:29 pm

jtabustos wrote:Wasn'g sure where to post this question.

I was just wondering if class attendance is required in law school? Is roll taken (officially or unofficially)?

And if a person does miss class is the material learnable on one's own? ...feel free to add other considerations to my question guys. Thanks!

Most classes don't factor participation or attendance in, though I have had a few that did. If that's the case, skip as many classes as you want/feel comfortable with. Whether or not that will affect your performance is entirely dependent on your own assessment. There have been some classes that, had I missed more than a class or two, I would have been in trouble. There are also a decent number of classes I've skipped almost 40% of and done little to no reading for. I can remember one person from my 1L section who barely attended any classes and still pulled off top grades. It's all about knowing what is best for you.

SportsFan
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby SportsFan » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:32 pm

jtabustos wrote:Wasn'g sure where to post this question.

I was just wondering if class attendance is required in law school? Is roll taken (officially or unofficially)?

And if a person does miss class is the material learnable on one's own? ...feel free to add other considerations to my question guys. Thanks!

In my experience, none of my professors have ever officially taken attendance. But some will take note if they try to cold call you and you're absent, and may inform the registrar or whatever if it happens multiple times (none of them will ever do anything disciplinary if it just happens once though, at least in my experience).

I've missed class a few times so far during 1L for various reasons, and it's not terrible. People will pretty much always share their notes with you if you ask. There are some people who pretty much never go to class, and some of them do really well and others don't.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:42 pm

PennBull wrote:
SportsFan wrote:Does anyone know how the curves work for the electives? Lately the rumor seems to be that they don't have to follow the 1L curve, but I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how it worked. I guess I could just go to the registrar and check the old grade distributions, but I'm lazy and this is easier. :lol:


Yeah it seems like this rumor happens every year, which is why I signed up for one of the "easier" classes (which turned out to be false, and it was my worst class and I promptly got a B). But your classes will all have a curve unless it is very small, and then I think the professor is allowed some leeway. Are you in that Law in American Life class? Isn't there only like 20 kids in it haha

The regulatory elective is always curved (admin/bankruptcy/environ law/PIL), but the general elective isn't curved if the class is under a certain size (20 or so? I knew at one point but forgot). A couple of them are really small this semester since it seemed like IP and property were popular (Chinese law with Delisle has like 10 people in it).

Edit: SportsFan, we're definitely not off the hook on the curve with property. Though honestly I'd rather have him on the curve than off since I don't seem him as inclined to mercy.
Last edited by Nelson on Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:45 pm

jtabustos wrote:Wasn'g sure where to post this question.

I was just wondering if class attendance is required in law school? Is roll taken (officially or unofficially)?

And if a person does miss class is the material learnable on one's own? ...feel free to add other considerations to my question guys. Thanks!

A bunch of my professors posted recordings of every class so missing one isn't a big inconvenience. Your professor will never even notice in most classes unless they make a list of cold calls before each class and happen to pick you on a day you aren't there.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby JamesDean1955 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:21 pm

Nelson wrote:
jtabustos wrote:Wasn'g sure where to post this question.

I was just wondering if class attendance is required in law school? Is roll taken (officially or unofficially)?

And if a person does miss class is the material learnable on one's own? ...feel free to add other considerations to my question guys. Thanks!

A bunch of my professors posted recordings of every class so missing one isn't a big inconvenience. Your professor will never even notice in most classes unless they make a list of cold calls before each class and happen to pick you on a day you aren't there.


Is this true for a lot of 1L classes? If so that's pretty awesome in case you miss class or something in class.

Also, I thought one of the benefits of attending Penn was that Property isn't a required course? What are y'all doing taking it as an elective??! :lol:

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:27 pm

JamesDean1955 wrote:
Nelson wrote:
jtabustos wrote:Wasn'g sure where to post this question.

I was just wondering if class attendance is required in law school? Is roll taken (officially or unofficially)?

And if a person does miss class is the material learnable on one's own? ...feel free to add other considerations to my question guys. Thanks!

A bunch of my professors posted recordings of every class so missing one isn't a big inconvenience. Your professor will never even notice in most classes unless they make a list of cold calls before each class and happen to pick you on a day you aren't there.


Is this true for a lot of 1L classes? If so that's pretty awesome in case you miss class or something in class.


Roughly half of my 1L professors posted recordings of all classes. Any makeup class that isn't at the scheduled time has to have a recording posted as a law school policy. Most profs will post a recording if you ask ahead of time (though there are exceptions).
JamesDean1955 wrote:Also, I thought one of the benefits of attending Penn was that Property isn't a required course? What are y'all doing taking it as an elective??!

Meh, I figured it would be kind of ridiculous to go through law school without taking a foundation common law class. I don't regret it yet. Some of my friends are planning to take property 2L or 3L. A lot of people are adamant about not ever taking it though, so you can definitely go that route if you want to.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:36 pm

JamesDean1955 wrote:Also, I thought one of the benefits of attending Penn was that Property isn't a required course? What are y'all doing taking it as an elective??! :lol:


Because there can be a shitload of old outlines, plus a professor who has a standard curriculum that you can ask upperclassmen about.

If I was a 1L I would've done the same thing.

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JamesDean1955
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby JamesDean1955 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:45 pm

I've heard that property courses are really archaic and not useful; but it seems like you guys recommend it for various reasons, so I'll def look into it.

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PennBull
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby PennBull » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:52 pm

JamesDean1955 wrote:I've heard that property courses are really archaic and not useful; but it seems like you guys recommend it for various reasons, so I'll def look into it.


All law courses are archaic and not useful in my opinion :lol:

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Nelson
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Nelson » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:58 pm

PennBull wrote:
JamesDean1955 wrote:Also, I thought one of the benefits of attending Penn was that Property isn't a required course? What are y'all doing taking it as an elective??! :lol:


Because there can be a shitload of old outlines, plus a professor who has a standard curriculum that you can ask upperclassmen about.

If I was a 1L I would've done the same thing.

This too. Property is predictable in a way that a class called "Law in American Life" definitely is not.




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