Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:00 pm

iamrobk wrote:
clee33 wrote:Hey guys, are you hearing that lw is going to be graded from someone on the inside? Can't find anything on the admitted students website or the packet or elsewhere on line that this change is being made. Would be nice if they have us a heads up.

Yeah, curious about this myself, since all the information they've given out (and have online) has the "old" curriculum information. I'm tempted to email someone and ask if they know what's going on.

I just looked at the admitted students page and it doesn't have property listed so I'm guessing it incorporates the change in curriculum, it doesn't say whether LW is graded though so asking them to clarify probably isn't unreasonable.

iamrobk
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby iamrobk » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:55 pm

Georgiana wrote:
iamrobk wrote:
clee33 wrote:Hey guys, are you hearing that lw is going to be graded from someone on the inside? Can't find anything on the admitted students website or the packet or elsewhere on line that this change is being made. Would be nice if they have us a heads up.

Yeah, curious about this myself, since all the information they've given out (and have online) has the "old" curriculum information. I'm tempted to email someone and ask if they know what's going on.

I just looked at the admitted students page and it doesn't have property listed so I'm guessing it incorporates the change in curriculum, it doesn't say whether LW is graded though so asking them to clarify probably isn't unreasonable.

Ah, I didn't think to check the website, thanks. I'm curious how they can just get rid of property though. Isn't that a class that 1L's at every other school are going to take?

clee33
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby clee33 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:16 pm

I called the registrar earlier today and asked if it was being graded next year, and the lady responded "Wasn't it always graded?" The admissions person had no idea. :roll:

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:26 pm

Is the whole graded/not graded thing REALLY that big of a deal for LR? I feel like I'm missing something...


not meant to be snarky

run26.2
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby run26.2 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:59 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:Is the whole graded/not graded thing REALLY that big of a deal for LR? I feel like I'm missing something...


not meant to be snarky

It's not. I don't see a good reason to rule a law school out because it had a graded legal writing program.

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Shooter
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Shooter » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:09 pm

Hi guys, thanks for taking the time to make this thread.

I'm just wondering what it's like living in Philadelphia. I'm from pretty far down south, so I'm really not accustomed to life in a big city. Does the area around Penn Law where students live feel like a big crowded metropolis, or is it easy to branch out into a more suburban feel? I'm really not good with public transportation either, so I'm wondering if I'd be better off at a school like Duke where things are a little bit more spread out.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

(Also, sorry if a similar question has already been asked.)

clee33
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby clee33 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:27 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:Is the whole graded/not graded thing REALLY that big of a deal for LR? I feel like I'm missing something...


not meant to be snarky


no, i'm starting at penn in the fall and am beyond ecstatic regardless. would like to know though.

iamrobk
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby iamrobk » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:16 pm

Shooter wrote:Hi guys, thanks for taking the time to make this thread.

I'm just wondering what it's like living in Philadelphia. I'm from pretty far down south, so I'm really not accustomed to life in a big city. Does the area around Penn Law where students live feel like a big crowded metropolis, or is it easy to branch out into a more suburban feel? I'm really not good with public transportation either, so I'm wondering if I'd be better off at a school like Duke where things are a little bit more spread out.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

(Also, sorry if a similar question has already been asked.)

Just a 0L from the Philly suburbs, but Philly is what you make of it. If you want to live in the suburbs and take the train in, that's possible. If you want a true city feel, you can live in Center City. The area around Penn isn't, say, NYC, but it's still a city. SEPTA (the public transportation around Philly) ain't the greatest, but it's easy enough to learn. I think the best choice for you is just to visit and see what you think.

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XxMVPxX
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby XxMVPxX » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:27 am

iamrobk wrote:Just a 0L from the Philly suburbs, but Philly is what you make of it. If you want to live in the suburbs and take the train in, that's possible. If you want a true city feel, you can live in Center City. The area around Penn isn't, say, NYC, but it's still a city. SEPTA (the public transportation around Philly) ain't the greatest, but it's easy enough to learn. I think the best choice for you is just to visit and see what you think.


Hey I saw your stats and I'm just wondering since you ED'd, are you paying sticker for tuition? If you don't mind me asking ofcourse.

HeavenWood
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:40 am

iamrobk wrote:
Shooter wrote:Hi guys, thanks for taking the time to make this thread.

I'm just wondering what it's like living in Philadelphia. I'm from pretty far down south, so I'm really not accustomed to life in a big city. Does the area around Penn Law where students live feel like a big crowded metropolis, or is it easy to branch out into a more suburban feel? I'm really not good with public transportation either, so I'm wondering if I'd be better off at a school like Duke where things are a little bit more spread out.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

(Also, sorry if a similar question has already been asked.)

Just a 0L from the Philly suburbs, but Philly is what you make of it. If you want to live in the suburbs and take the train in, that's possible. If you want a true city feel, you can live in Center City. The area around Penn isn't, say, NYC, but it's still a city. SEPTA (the public transportation around Philly) ain't the greatest, but it's easy enough to learn. I think the best choice for you is just to visit and see what you think.

Unless you have a family and need access to good public schools, living in the suburbs is a terrible, terrible idea.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:48 am

HeavenWood wrote:Unless you have a family and need access to good public schools, living in the suburbs is a terrible, terrible idea.


Why? Some places are reasonable and nice.

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JDizzle2015
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby JDizzle2015 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:38 am

Was talking to a penn law alum the other day and found out that in the early 90s Penn Law was completely H/P/F... We got in during the wrong era...

penn0Ler
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby penn0Ler » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:08 am

1) According to a faculty member I spoke to, legal writing will not be graded, since they can't have 3Ls assigning grades. I assume the current system will continue, where 25% of the class gets honors in legal writing. Assuming it's true that legal writing won't be graded, your fall semester will be vastly more sane given the lack of that extra doctrinal class.

2) I would advise against taking the train in from the suburbs. It just eats up a huge chunk of time. What I would recommend is look around the area between Spruce and Baltimore, between 44th and 47th. You can get a good chunk of space at a relatively reasonable price (although not as cheap as the burbs). There are a good number of families with kids living in this area, and certain parts definitely have a "neighborhood" feel. Also, the Penn bus goes out there on weekday evenings. You can walk, bike, or take the Trolley to school. Even if you're not "good at public transportation", you can easily figure out the schedule and drop tokens in the machine.

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violaboy
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby violaboy » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:00 pm

penn0Ler wrote:2) I would advise against taking the train in from the suburbs. It just eats up a huge chunk of time. What I would recommend is look around the area between Spruce and Baltimore, between 44th and 47th. You can get a good chunk of space at a relatively reasonable price (although not as cheap as the burbs). There are a good number of families with kids living in this area, and certain parts definitely have a "neighborhood" feel. Also, the Penn bus goes out there on weekday evenings. You can walk, bike, or take the Trolley to school. Even if you're not "good at public transportation", you can easily figure out the schedule and drop tokens in the machine.


This is where I live, and I love it. You can live a little bit further north and south in the lower/mid 40s. It's cheaper, has more of a neighborhood feeling, no undergrads this far out (and still safe), and an easy commute to Center City for your social life. If you can afford more and still want a less city feeling than Rittenhouse Square, I'd suggest the Fitler Square and Grad Hospital areas just south of Rittenhouse.

r6_philly wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Unless you have a family and need access to good public schools, living in the suburbs is a terrible, terrible idea.


Why? Some places are reasonable and nice.


SOCIAL LIFE.

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:37 pm

penn0Ler wrote:1) According to a faculty member I spoke to, legal writing will not be graded, since they can't have 3Ls assigning grades. I assume the current system will continue, where 25% of the class gets honors in legal writing. Assuming it's true that legal writing won't be graded, your fall semester will be vastly more sane given the lack of that extra doctrinal class.

2) I would advise against taking the train in from the suburbs. It just eats up a huge chunk of time. What I would recommend is look around the area between Spruce and Baltimore, between 44th and 47th. You can get a good chunk of space at a relatively reasonable price (although not as cheap as the burbs). There are a good number of families with kids living in this area, and certain parts definitely have a "neighborhood" feel. Also, the Penn bus goes out there on weekday evenings. You can walk, bike, or take the Trolley to school. Even if you're not "good at public transportation", you can easily figure out the schedule and drop tokens in the machine.


I believe it was only 10% H our year.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:57 pm

Veyron wrote:
penn0Ler wrote:1) According to a faculty member I spoke to, legal writing will not be graded, since they can't have 3Ls assigning grades. I assume the current system will continue, where 25% of the class gets honors in legal writing. Assuming it's true that legal writing won't be graded, your fall semester will be vastly more sane given the lack of that extra doctrinal class.

2) I would advise against taking the train in from the suburbs. It just eats up a huge chunk of time. What I would recommend is look around the area between Spruce and Baltimore, between 44th and 47th. You can get a good chunk of space at a relatively reasonable price (although not as cheap as the burbs). There are a good number of families with kids living in this area, and certain parts definitely have a "neighborhood" feel. Also, the Penn bus goes out there on weekday evenings. You can walk, bike, or take the Trolley to school. Even if you're not "good at public transportation", you can easily figure out the schedule and drop tokens in the machine.


I believe it was only 10% H our year.

Definitely not 25% my year either, it was 1, maybe 2, per cohort (each cohort being approx 10-15 people).

penn0Ler
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby penn0Ler » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:16 am

Georgiana wrote:
Veyron wrote:
penn0Ler wrote:1) According to a faculty member I spoke to, legal writing will not be graded, since they can't have 3Ls assigning grades. I assume the current system will continue, where 25% of the class gets honors in legal writing. Assuming it's true that legal writing won't be graded, your fall semester will be vastly more sane given the lack of that extra doctrinal class.

2) I would advise against taking the train in from the suburbs. It just eats up a huge chunk of time. What I would recommend is look around the area between Spruce and Baltimore, between 44th and 47th. You can get a good chunk of space at a relatively reasonable price (although not as cheap as the burbs). There are a good number of families with kids living in this area, and certain parts definitely have a "neighborhood" feel. Also, the Penn bus goes out there on weekday evenings. You can walk, bike, or take the Trolley to school. Even if you're not "good at public transportation", you can easily figure out the schedule and drop tokens in the machine.


I believe it was only 10% H our year.

Definitely not 25% my year either, it was 1, maybe 2, per cohort (each cohort being approx 10-15 people).


Yeah my LWI said they upped it to 25% this year to incentivize people to actually strive for it. I guess 25% seems more attainable, which is fair.

penn0Ler
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby penn0Ler » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:31 am

violaboy wrote:
penn0Ler wrote:2) I would advise against taking the train in from the suburbs. It just eats up a huge chunk of time. What I would recommend is look around the area between Spruce and Baltimore, between 44th and 47th. You can get a good chunk of space at a relatively reasonable price (although not as cheap as the burbs). There are a good number of families with kids living in this area, and certain parts definitely have a "neighborhood" feel. Also, the Penn bus goes out there on weekday evenings. You can walk, bike, or take the Trolley to school. Even if you're not "good at public transportation", you can easily figure out the schedule and drop tokens in the machine.


This is where I live, and I love it. You can live a little bit further north and south in the lower/mid 40s. It's cheaper, has more of a neighborhood feeling, no undergrads this far out (and still safe), and an easy commute to Center City for your social life. If you can afford more and still want a less city feeling than Rittenhouse Square, I'd suggest the Fitler Square and Grad Hospital areas just south of Rittenhouse.

r6_philly wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Unless you have a family and need access to good public schools, living in the suburbs is a terrible, terrible idea.


Why? Some places are reasonable and nice.


SOCIAL LIFE.


Yeah Walnut is fine up to at least 45th. Sure, you start seeing from sketchy characters around the Supreme Shop'n'Bag (best priced grocery store in University City) at 43rd, but no one among the people I know that live out that way have had any problems whatsoever (unless by problem you mean someone asking for change). Chestnut starts to feel a bit scarier in the mid-40s, and I would highly recommend avoiding Market past 42nd after dark. Some people have this idea that anything west of 40th is something out of the Wire, but that's just ridiculous. West Philly is totally block-to-block, and once you are south of Walnut in the 40s, it doesn't feel any more dangerous than the area around Penn. In fact, if you look at a historic homicide map, there have been more incidents on the Penn campus itself over the last 20 years than in many parts of West Philly.

To each his own, but I'm a major West Philly evangelist. It just blows my mind how much some folks pay for rent (a la Domus, Left Bank, even Chestnut Hall). If you're single and have a roommate, you don't need to spend more than $600/month on housing. $900-1000 for a nice place without a roommate (i.e. you and a SO). I'm not even taking out loans for living expenses (worked before LS), so the thought of actually taking out extra loans to live it up during law school is very alien to me. If your parents are paying, or you have extra cash to blow, Domus, the ritzier parts of CC, etc make a lot more sense. And I'll concede, there is a lot more going on in CC, although Septa routes 21, 42, the Subway and the Penn Buses/Shuttles make getting there from West Philly insanely easy.

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Shooter
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Shooter » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:46 am

Thank you everyone for the responses! I found a lot of the recommendations to be very helpful.

myselfersonEsq
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby myselfersonEsq » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:52 am

Shooter wrote:Hi guys, thanks for taking the time to make this thread.

I'm just wondering what it's like living in Philadelphia. I'm from pretty far down south, so I'm really not accustomed to life in a big city. Does the area around Penn Law where students live feel like a big crowded metropolis, or is it easy to branch out into a more suburban feel? I'm really not good with public transportation either, so I'm wondering if I'd be better off at a school like Duke where things are a little bit more spread out.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

(Also, sorry if a similar question has already been asked.)



I went to Duke as an undergrad, after visiting both Penn and Duke, and if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't touch Duke with a 5000 foot pole. The place is a smelly, swampy, ignorant mess.

In favor of Philadelphia: great art, libraries, bars, musicians, and living spaces--all within EASY WALKING distance or easy use of public transport. The area around the school is not the nicest part of Philly, but it's like Buckingham Palace compared to Durham.

It really depends on what you like, I guess.

Myself? Not going to UPENN might be the worst mistake I've ever made ;)

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Shooter
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Shooter » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:03 pm

myselfersonEsq wrote:
Shooter wrote:Hi guys, thanks for taking the time to make this thread.

I'm just wondering what it's like living in Philadelphia. I'm from pretty far down south, so I'm really not accustomed to life in a big city. Does the area around Penn Law where students live feel like a big crowded metropolis, or is it easy to branch out into a more suburban feel? I'm really not good with public transportation either, so I'm wondering if I'd be better off at a school like Duke where things are a little bit more spread out.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

(Also, sorry if a similar question has already been asked.)


I went to Duke as an undergrad, after visiting both Penn and Duke, and if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't touch Duke with a 5000 foot pole. The place is a smelly, swampy, ignorant mess.

In favor of Philadelphia: great art, libraries, bars, musicians, and living spaces--all within EASY WALKING distance or easy use of public transport. The area around the school is not the nicest part of Philly, but it's like Buckingham Palace compared to Durham.

It really depends on what you like, I guess.

Myself? Not going to UPENN might be the worst mistake I've ever made ;)


Ouch. Good to know, though! Duke's promotional materials make it seem like a tranquil gothic paradise, complete with lemurs and lush vegetation.

Sirius
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.

Postby Sirius » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:45 pm

.
Last edited by Sirius on Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:48 pm

Sirius wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts on Barnett for Contracts and his exams?


He went back to GULC. Loved him.

ACROOS170
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby ACROOS170 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:18 am

I've skimmed through about 20 pgs or so and didn't find anything particularly relevant to my question. However, if it has been answered, I apologize in advance...

Right now, I'm leaning toward Penn and its prestige over UTexas (close to home and feeds into markets I'm interested in) and Wash U (huge scholarship). Aside from the lure of attending an Ivy League law school, my preference for Penn primarily derives from their employment statistics. It seems that the top 2/3s of the class can feel pretty comfortable about their job prospects and salaries. But what about the bottom third?

Obviously, I don't expect the entire class to receive market salaries. However, if I am going to take out nearly $200k in debt, I need to be pretty convinced that I won't graduate with a sub 120k salary... much less a 65k salary...

I don't plan on finishing in the bottom third of my class but I doubt that anybody does... So, I am concerned. But how concerned should I be?

THANKS in advance!

__________________________________

*I guess I'm looking for specific answers (i.e. if you are in the bottom 20% or so, expect to scramble for employment up until graduation when you settle for midlaw or less in a market that wasn't in your top three choices...)

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:35 am

It takes more than grades to get jobs. So you have to do a self-assessment on how employable you are. If you are really attractive to employers otherwise, you will still be able to find something from the bottom. Whether than means 40k or 80k depends on you, your background, and luck. If you don't stand out as a good employee candidate, then you will probably struggle a bit. But, if you are both not a good candidate, and you struggle in law school, going to UT or WashU isn't going to land you a job either. I am not super convinced that one would readily do better at a lower ranked school, because so many factors are at play. Yes, you avoid most of the debt, but you also give up three years of earning and time.

It's always a risk. Ask yourself - do you have any other option to get you a $120k salary? UT for free is a decent option, WashU I would not touch.

Read the stats this way: 2/3 of the class land biglaw jobs. It loosely correlate to class rank. There will be people landing great jobs from the 1/3, but they have to have other things going for them other than grades.




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