Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:59 am

TLSNYC wrote:http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/node/49361
This article is seriously dated but it's making me worry that there's a strict no laptop in class policy. True, false, or depends on profs? Can any of you super help penn students estimate just how wide-spread this is?

ANd once again, thanks to all the students posting here. This thread is 56 pages of gold for any future penn student!

First comment after skimming the article... I <3 JASON JOHNSTON

Ok now that that's out of the way.... I STILL <3 him :)

Ok really... he's not at Penn anymore. He moved to UVA and that made me very very sad. (But this means he isn't banning laptops in classes at Penn anymore... and he did allow them in the small (<20 students) class I had with him.)

Some profs ban laptops but not very many. I had Mooney last semester and he allowed laptops.

And honestly, not having laptops in class isn't so bad, I did it for a lot of classes and definitely paid more attention.

Of the 1L profs, the only one I know for sure banned them was Wolff. Burbank makes you lower your screen when on call. Maybe rising 2Ls/3Ls can chime in since its more fresh in their memories.

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wackyjack22
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby wackyjack22 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:57 pm

TLSNYC wrote:http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/node/49361
This article is seriously dated but it's making me worry that there's a strict no laptop in class policy. True, false, or depends on profs? Can any of you super help penn students estimate just how wide-spread this is?

ANd once again, thanks to all the students posting here. This thread is 56 pages of gold for any future penn student!


I was told at ASW that one of the 1L sections was not allowed to use laptops in any of their 1L classes. Not exactly sure how that grading worked but the idea I got was that it was some sort of an experiment to see if these students did better or worse than their peers who were allowed to have their computers.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:34 pm

Georgiana wrote:
TLSNYC wrote:http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/node/49361
This article is seriously dated but it's making me worry that there's a strict no laptop in class policy. True, false, or depends on profs? Can any of you super help penn students estimate just how wide-spread this is?

Maybe rising 2Ls/3Ls can chime in since its more fresh in their memories.


No laptops in Yoo's classes.

run26.2
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby run26.2 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:15 pm

underachiever wrote:
Georgiana wrote:
TLSNYC wrote:http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/node/49361
This article is seriously dated but it's making me worry that there's a strict no laptop in class policy. True, false, or depends on profs? Can any of you super help penn students estimate just how wide-spread this is?

Maybe rising 2Ls/3Ls can chime in since its more fresh in their memories.


No laptops in Yoo's classes.

I didn't have Wagner for property but he had a no laptop policy in Patent Law. He gave out slides in a format that made it easy to take notes. That was the only class at Penn that I have had that banned laptops.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:46 pm

I was told that the ban in 1L classes was only in 1 of the sections and it was temporary. And that they don't expect it to happen this year. I can't really take notes on paper...

marija
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby marija » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:35 pm

wackyjack22 wrote:
TLSNYC wrote:http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/node/49361
This article is seriously dated but it's making me worry that there's a strict no laptop in class policy. True, false, or depends on profs? Can any of you super help penn students estimate just how wide-spread this is?

ANd once again, thanks to all the students posting here. This thread is 56 pages of gold for any future penn student!


I was told at ASW that one of the 1L sections was not allowed to use laptops in any of their 1L classes. Not exactly sure how that grading worked but the idea I got was that it was some sort of an experiment to see if these students did better or worse than their peers who were allowed to have their computers.


????

For starters, the laptop ban was only first semester -- second semester that section (section 2 i think? the one with Gordon/Wolff/Wilkinson-Ryan/deLisle) got to use laptops in some of their classes.

Secondly, each section has its own curve, so I'm not exactly sure how banning laptops in one would lead to any usable statistics, unless you planned on analyzing the performance of students class-wide, which a) would require a massive amount of work I have a feeling no professor/administrator would want to take on, and b) would require controlling for extraneous variables like professor quality, exam difficulty, exam subject matter, (for example, my property class covered much less than the other two sections did) and exam format that frankly I don't think could be controlled.

If this is something someone at Penn told you, they're crazy; if this is something that you "figured out" for yourself, you're crazy. I had heard from someone that the professors in that section got together and just made the executive decision to ban laptops. No idea if it'll continue this year -- that probably depends on the professors in each section.

For the record, I had one no-laptop class each semester. It's really not that bad. There are some classes that it would be literally impossible to get anything from without a laptop, but in some ways hand writing is good because it forces you to actually analyze what's going on in class instead of just mindlessly typing, and as a corollary to that it makes you realize what the important things to get down on paper are and what is kind of extraneous. Also, it's very easy to get distracted in class by gchat/facebook/gawker/reddit/whatever your personal internet distraction is (and don't get on your OL high horse and say you wouldn't waste your time/money in school on that... you will).

In conclusion:

1. I don't think this was part of some master social engineering plan.
2. Laptop bans are not that bad and can actually be useful in some ways.
Edit: 3. I hope I don't come off as too much of a douche.
Last edited by marija on Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HelloThere!
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby HelloThere! » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:12 pm

Hi, I don't know if you have answers questions about this, but I was just curious about the JD/MBA dual degree program.

Do I need to apply for it when I write my apps for penn law? If so, does it affect my chance of being accepted into the law school?

bdubs
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby bdubs » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:40 pm

HelloThere! wrote:Hi, I don't know if you have answers questions about this, but I was just curious about the JD/MBA dual degree program.

Do I need to apply for it when I write my apps for penn law? If so, does it affect my chance of being accepted into the law school?


1) Sort of, if you want to know for certain you will gain admission to the JD/MBA program at Penn you need to do the joint application through Wharton. You basically compile a complete business school application and a complete law school application, but you only pay for the business school one. The submission process isn't through LSAC either, but they do request your summary report. You have the option of applying as a 1L if you don't get into the MBA program the first time around or if you just weren't sure as an applicant.

2) No, it doesn't affect your chances of admission to the law school. I was denied by Wharton, but accepted into Penn Law. When I spoke with them they made it pretty clear that the evaluation process was pretty independent and that acceptance or denial at one school wouldn't really influence the other.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:56 pm

marija wrote:
For the record, I had one no-laptop class each semester. It's really not that bad. There are some classes (Wax's Civ Pro class, for example) that it would be literally impossible to get anything from without a laptop, but in some ways hand writing is good because it forces you to actually analyze what's going on in class instead of just mindlessly typing, and as a corollary to that it makes you realize what the important things to get down on paper are and what is kind of extraneous. Also, it's very easy to get distracted in class by gchat/facebook/gawker/reddit/whatever your personal internet distraction is (and don't get on your OL high horse and say you wouldn't waste your time/money in school on that... you will).


Maybe for some, but not all. Many would be able to analyze things when typing. I for one use gchat only on class related things/sharing notes/opinions about instructors and material. There is no high horse, some people are just that into learning in class.

HelloThere!
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby HelloThere! » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:49 am

bdubs wrote:
HelloThere! wrote:Hi, I don't know if you have answers questions about this, but I was just curious about the JD/MBA dual degree program.

Do I need to apply for it when I write my apps for penn law? If so, does it affect my chance of being accepted into the law school?


1) Sort of, if you want to know for certain you will gain admission to the JD/MBA program at Penn you need to do the joint application through Wharton. You basically compile a complete business school application and a complete law school application, but you only pay for the business school one. The submission process isn't through LSAC either, but they do request your summary report. You have the option of applying as a 1L if you don't get into the MBA program the first time around or if you just weren't sure as an applicant.

2) No, it doesn't affect your chances of admission to the law school. I was denied by Wharton, but accepted into Penn Law. When I spoke with them they made it pretty clear that the evaluation process was pretty independent and that acceptance or denial at one school wouldn't really influence the other.


So does this mean that I would have to take both LSAT and GMAT/GRE?

I have been doing some research on this, but they don't make this point very clear...

bdubs
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby bdubs » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:54 am

HelloThere! wrote:
bdubs wrote:
HelloThere! wrote:Hi, I don't know if you have answers questions about this, but I was just curious about the JD/MBA dual degree program.

Do I need to apply for it when I write my apps for penn law? If so, does it affect my chance of being accepted into the law school?


1) Sort of, if you want to know for certain you will gain admission to the JD/MBA program at Penn you need to do the joint application through Wharton. You basically compile a complete business school application and a complete law school application, but you only pay for the business school one. The submission process isn't through LSAC either, but they do request your summary report. You have the option of applying as a 1L if you don't get into the MBA program the first time around or if you just weren't sure as an applicant.

2) No, it doesn't affect your chances of admission to the law school. I was denied by Wharton, but accepted into Penn Law. When I spoke with them they made it pretty clear that the evaluation process was pretty independent and that acceptance or denial at one school wouldn't really influence the other.


So does this mean that I would have to take both LSAT and GMAT/GRE?

I have been doing some research on this, but they don't make this point very clear...


Yes, both LSAT and GMAT are required for UPenn's JD/MBA application.

Only Northwestern outright accepts one score only, and it's the GMAT. If you have a very high LSAT, you can waive the GMAT requirement for NYU by demonstrating quantitative capability (courses or work experience). Those are the two exceptions in the T14 that I know of.

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wackyjack22
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby wackyjack22 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:51 pm

marija wrote:
wackyjack22 wrote:
TLSNYC wrote:http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/node/49361
This article is seriously dated but it's making me worry that there's a strict no laptop in class policy. True, false, or depends on profs? Can any of you super help penn students estimate just how wide-spread this is?

ANd once again, thanks to all the students posting here. This thread is 56 pages of gold for any future penn student!


I was told at ASW that one of the 1L sections was not allowed to use laptops in any of their 1L classes. Not exactly sure how that grading worked but the idea I got was that it was some sort of an experiment to see if these students did better or worse than their peers who were allowed to have their computers.


????

For starters, the laptop ban was only first semester -- second semester that section (section 2 i think? the one with Gordon/Wolff/Wilkinson-Ryan/deLisle) got to use laptops in some of their classes.

Secondly, each section has its own curve, so I'm not exactly sure how banning laptops in one would lead to any usable statistics, unless you planned on analyzing the performance of students class-wide, which a) would require a massive amount of work I have a feeling no professor/administrator would want to take on, and b) would require controlling for extraneous variables like professor quality, exam difficulty, exam subject matter, (for example, my property class covered much less than the other two sections did) and exam format that frankly I don't think could be controlled.

If this is something someone at Penn told you, they're crazy; if this is something that you "figured out" for yourself, you're crazy. I had heard from someone that the professors in that section got together and just made the executive decision to ban laptops. No idea if it'll continue this year -- that probably depends on the professors in each section.

For the record, I had one no-laptop class each semester. It's really not that bad. There are some classes (Wax's Civ Pro class, for example) that it would be literally impossible to get anything from without a laptop, but in some ways hand writing is good because it forces you to actually analyze what's going on in class instead of just mindlessly typing, and as a corollary to that it makes you realize what the important things to get down on paper are and what is kind of extraneous. Also, it's very easy to get distracted in class by gchat/facebook/gawker/reddit/whatever your personal internet distraction is (and don't get on your OL high horse and say you wouldn't waste your time/money in school on that... you will).

In conclusion:

1. I don't think this was part of some master social engineering plan.
2. Laptop bans are not that bad and can actually be useful in some ways.
Edit: 3. I hope I don't come off as too much of a douche.


Just to start, you didn't come off as a douche, hopefully everyone here appreciates your insight. I got that idea from what I was being told but I'm sure that based on what you are saying that I simply misinterpreted this. It makes sense that it would be hard to analyze so I am quite sure you are right and whoever told me this or however I figured this out is wrong. Looks like with or without laptops we will all be fine so I don't think it is anything to really worry about.

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:10 pm

bdubs wrote:
HelloThere! wrote:
bdubs wrote:
HelloThere! wrote:Hi, I don't know if you have answers questions about this, but I was just curious about the JD/MBA dual degree program.

Yes, both LSAT and GMAT are required for UPenn's JD/MBA application.

Only Northwestern outright accepts one score only, and it's the GMAT. If you have a very high LSAT, you can waive the GMAT requirement for NYU by demonstrating quantitative capability (courses or work experience). Those are the two exceptions in the T14 that I know of.


UVA and Harvard as well.

marija
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby marija » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:26 pm

r6_philly wrote:
marija wrote:
For the record, I had one no-laptop class each semester. It's really not that bad. There are some classes (Wax's Civ Pro class, for example) that it would be literally impossible to get anything from without a laptop, but in some ways hand writing is good because it forces you to actually analyze what's going on in class instead of just mindlessly typing, and as a corollary to that it makes you realize what the important things to get down on paper are and what is kind of extraneous. Also, it's very easy to get distracted in class by gchat/facebook/gawker/reddit/whatever your personal internet distraction is (and don't get on your OL high horse and say you wouldn't waste your time/money in school on that... you will).


Maybe for some, but not all. Many would be able to analyze things when typing. I for one use gchat only on class related things/sharing notes/opinions about instructors and material. There is no high horse, some people are just that into learning in class.


::shrug:: I don't disagree with anything you said, and I was able to analyze class while typing as well, I just get the sense that some people get a keyboard in front of them and go into "court reporter" mode.

My main point was that not having laptops is not the end of the world, and can actually be nice from time to time. In classes where I was allowed to have a laptop there were occasions where I'd go without just because I didn't feel like using mine at the time.

supahstahxruv
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby supahstahxruv » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:48 am

Man, I can't believe how much I rely on this thread. I have a quick financial aid question -

How are financial aid awards reflected on the student bill? It didn't show up on my latest statement so I am afraid they've forgotten about it... I can't seem to find any information on their website. Help would be much appreciated!

Thanks a lot!

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:31 am

supahstahxruv wrote:Man, I can't believe how much I rely on this thread. I have a quick financial aid question -

How are financial aid awards reflected on the student bill? It didn't show up on my latest statement so I am afraid they've forgotten about it... I can't seem to find any information on their website. Help would be much appreciated!

Thanks a lot!

As long as you've done all of you loan apps/paperwork, it'll show up on the billpay site around August. If you still have something to pay on your bill in August you should definitely call Anthony Henry and see whats up (unless you had planned on paying some out of pocket of course).

iusedtolurk
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby iusedtolurk » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:56 pm

So my financial situation changed dramatically overnight (literally), and now I will probably need a job during school. Please tell me this is doable....... if not, what can i do?

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:50 am

iusedtolurk wrote:So my financial situation changed dramatically overnight (literally), and now I will probably need a job during school. Please tell me this is doable....... if not, what can i do?

PM me more details if you want better advice, but I really recommend calling Tony Henry to explain the situation to see what you can do. You shouldn't need a job if you're willing to increase the loans you take on and if you do get a job I believe you have to talk to Dean Clinton about it because law schools have rules on how much you're allowed to work etc. Obv no one will tell on you if you do your own thing, but I'm sure the school will be willing to help you examine the options and make the best decision.

Sorry about whatever happened and I hope everything is ok!

mrm2083
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby mrm2083 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:12 am

Do you guys have any suggestions for easy upper level classes? They don't necessarily need to be classes that have A curves, just ones where you can get a B+ or even a B without worrying about it.

run26.2
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby run26.2 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:46 pm

mrm2083 wrote:Do you guys have any suggestions for easy upper level classes? They don't necessarily need to be classes that have A curves, just ones where you can get a B+ or even a B without worrying about it.

I have a couple of recommendations. PM if you want more info as I'd rather not post that type of info here.

kaiser
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby kaiser » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:31 pm

Just got in as a transfer, and I'm so rushed for time. They give me one week to decide if I wanna join. Here are my Q's:

-Is it feasible for someone to do a 1.5 hour train ride on a daily basis? I live in Central NJ, and want to minimize costs as much as possible, and wouldn't mind doing a train ride, but I would like to hear perspectives from current students. Know anyone who commutes like this?

-How is OCI shaping up? How many firms are coming? Perhaps you can PM me more info on this?

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:24 pm

kaiser wrote:-Is it feasible for someone to do a 1.5 hour train ride on a daily basis? I live in Central NJ, and want to minimize costs as much as possible, and wouldn't mind doing a train ride, but I would like to hear perspectives from current students. Know anyone who commutes like this?

I have two anecdotal comments on this:
1) I know a guy who "commuted" from DC for 3L. He took classes that didn't really require that he attend (aka were recorded and prof didn't care about attendance) and only came to school when necessary.

2) Boyfriend is commuting to his clerkship this year (Philly --> Trenton, ~hour on the train, about an hour and a half door to door) and hates it. For the year he has managed but anything longer than that and I think he'd be a very depressed person.

This tells you: If you can arrange it so you don't have classes every day (its totally possible to do 2-3 days a week if your priority is your schedule and not your classes) then its doable, and even if you have class every day its "doable" but probably won't make you a happy person. Also consider whether you get motion sickness when reading on trains, if you make good use of the time commuting it can probably get your reading done during the commute, but remember that SEPTA/PATCO don't have plugs/internet so working on the computer might me more difficult.

I have no comments on OCI bc I graduated and don't look at those things anymore :lol:

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:28 pm

mrm2083 wrote:Do you guys have any suggestions for easy upper level classes? They don't necessarily need to be classes that have A curves, just ones where you can get a B+ or even a B without worrying about it.

I'm not ignoring this Q, I swear... I just don't really have a recommendation.

I guess I would say:
1) Int'l business transactions with Mooney has a surprisingly high curve and sounds like a legit class (I did much better than I expected I would).
2) Paper classes tend to promise a B+ so long as you write a paper that conforms with the requirements.
3) Avoid classes like corps and evidence.
4) Take a clinic (assuming you don't mind doing work I haven't heard of people getting less than an A-).
5) Externships are pass fail and a lot of credits.
6) Take Wharton classes.

If I think of other things I'll share...

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:19 pm

Anyone know what the optimal bid strategy is for a medianish kid?

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:30 pm

Veyron wrote:Anyone know what the optimal bid strategy is for a medianish kid?

What city (or cities)?




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